ModelMill 3D CAD/CAM Software

[donchapman]

At the Ft. Worth Best In Graphics show last weekend, I saw a demo of ModelMill 3D CAD/CAM software (www.modelmill.com). I brought home one of their CD demos and am very impressed with the apparent power and user friendliness of the program. Two or three CNC router manufacturers at the show were using it and it was even recommended to me by a salesman for one of its competitors. So I'm seriously considering paying the (gulp) $3,000 that it sells for. I'm a sign maker and have been using LetterArt, CorelDRAW, and Arts & Letters for many years, but have never worked with any true 3D CAD/CAM programs. I'd like to hear from any ShopBotters who have any experience using ModelMill on their ShopBot or who have found any comparable program that is good for signmaking on a ShopBot.

[edcoleman]

Bob:

I understand your point. I've tried doing a couple of things using the 3D clipart from www.indepthsystems.com It does take quite a long time to create a nice piece. Like you, I don't think the machine time and the 3D software costs can easily be returned with 3D projects (you'd just have to charge too much $$$). 2D work is far more profitable.

With all that being said, I still am intrigued by the 3D aspect of the shopbot. There's no doubt that the machine has the capability to create these pieces, the problem is the design of the toolpaths in a cost effective way. At this point in time I don't see myself putting down a couple of thousand dollars for a 3D program. However, you can do some nice 3D stuff within turbocad. The point where I've stumbled is taking a 3D surface in turbocad and creating toolpaths.

But, back to Bill's point: if there ever was a seminar to teach 3D techniques (with affordable software) I would be VERY interested in it!

-Ed

[donchapman]

One market for 3D is high-end signs. My hand carved signs sell for $100+/sq.ft., meaning thousands of dollars for most of my signs. The problem is that they are so labor intensive that I often end up making only $15/hr from a two or three thousand dollar sign. I can already see that the time I save doing so-called 2.5D with my new ShopBot is going to pay for the machine very quickly, but still leave me doing a lot of hand carving, which isn't necessarily bad since my love of carving is what got me into this business.
But sign magazines have articles every month with signmakers telling how much their $40,000+ CNC routers have helped their business. I'm sure a lot of that use is with 2.5D instead of 3D. but I also see 3D output. I don't know why a ShopBot with a moderately fast computer and similar software shouldn't be able to approximate the same results with much lower investment in equipment. A salesman for one of those high-end CNC router companies effectively agreed when I told him I own a ShopBot and asked him about buying his company's 3D software and he quietly directed me to his software competition, ModelMill.
I'm not worried that a proliferation of 3D CNC routers will put me out of business, because they are still just tools to partially effect good design. There is much more to signmaking than cutting and shaping.

[birdsofplay]

Does Rhino do the tool paths as well or is it just a 3D modeler package ?

We all use the "contact plate" for zeroing our Z depth, I presume.
So ... if one were to cover their "3d part to be digitized" with aluminum foil, and mould it nicely around that part, then ...
We oughta be able to chuck up any old metal "point contact" as our probe.
Hook up the aluminum foil to the same switch as your Z-zero plate and edit the 3D probe program to work with that switch and Wah Lah !!! no probe needed !

[birdsofplay]

Bill .. Good point re the "touching tool"
also steep is the "word of the day" ... heed it !
3D just aint easy in any context.

Well, the reason I asked RE Rhino is because the toolpath issue is not trivial.
A program that makes allowances for your clamping locations, orginal block size and toolpath verification would also be necessary in addition to Rhino.

I already have 3D capability in MicroStation Modeler and Solid Edge. Neither of which make one feel "artisticly free" when developing the 3D model ( IMHO ).

Sure patterning unused areas is a viable "workaround" but not the most comprehensive or efficient way to develop ones toolpaths. I've tried that when developing raised letter signage. At issue was the cutting order of the patterning. It seems that the patterning moves were cut in a left to right motion and in the order that they were placed.
Yep, you guessed it ...
each pattern line was cut then a big return to left end and then the next cut. That resulted in lots of "overhead", nonproductive or wasted moves.

The "workaround" is to develop your own pattern and place "it" instead of the "canned" patterns that came with the program.

To do hog outs one would have to do all the above on each level ( or plane ) of cutting. And we are back to my observation regarding time or money :-(

Still feeling trapped .. Bob

[birdsofplay]

OK then ...

Either
1. ) 3M77 the part before aluminum foiling
OR
2. ) make a probe out of a good quality snap action microswitch.

I'm ceratinly no expert myself, but ...
This aint rocket science either :-)

This SB stuff is just too much FUN :-) !

[edcoleman]

Charles:

I'm intrigued by the idea of creating topo models. I have done some geographic illustrations that include topo lines as polylines and one of the projects I've always had in the back of my head was turning these drawings into physical models. When I drew them, there was no thought given to 3D modeling, the topo lines were just there to indicate elevations on a printout. My question to you is: how would you suggest going about creating a 3D surface from this info? Would it be simpler to almost start from scratch? Any insights would be appreciated, thanks.

-Ed

[bruce_clark]

Ed and Charles:

First Charles, ISO code _should_ work with the
G-code converter. Basically, the G-code converter
works with the main G-codes (rapid, linear
interpolation, circular clockwise, and circular
counterclockwise). These four commands represent
99.5% of G-code usage. Or better yet, send me a
a file from "millit" that does not work and I will
update/fix/add the commands to make it work.

Ed: For making topographical maps, ModelMill has
that feature already built in. It will load
7.5minute maps from the USGS's website and convert
them into 3D models. It is REALLY neet. If you
want more information, email me.

Bruce Clark
bwclark@centurytel.net

[bruce_clark]

Larry,

You could also use tif2sbp (now under the FC
command in the ShopBot software). This program
also converts images into 3d files and the best
part, it is free and you already have it!

Maybe not as nice as DeskArt, but is MUCH cheaper.
Now, neither one is ModelMill but it does get you
into 3D cutting pretty quickly.

Bruce Clark
bwclark@centurytel.net