Lamination for double sided western red cedar sign

[blackhawk]

I actually got an order for a sign that I quoted back in August. The job is for an outdor double sided sign about 2' x 3' and 2-1/2" thick. I wanted a little advice on adhesives, since this is my first outdoor cedar sign. My plan is to create two sign blanks 1-1/4" thick each and then gluing them back to back. I plan on starting with 2x4 cedar and truing the edges on the jointer and then edge gluing with biscuits. Then surfacing each side of the two blanks on the Bot to get them flat. Route the design on both blanks, then laminate together.

I feel pretty comfortable using Titebond III for the edge gluing. I have used it for years in dozens of edge glue ups without failure. Of course these were all indoor furniture pieces. For the lamination of the blanks back to back, I wondered if something else may be better. I thought about the PL Polyurethane Construction adhesive over the Titebond III. Any experience on this?

(I have never had any luck with Gorilla glue holding anything for me, not sure why. I only bought a bottle of it once, maybe I got a bad batch.)

[dakers]

based on recommendations of those who know more than i do we used dap weldwood marine recorcinol glue for wood for exterior use. would be great to laminate vertical grain to vertical grain to avoid opposing stresses.

[billp]

Brad,
Before you do all of that work, you might want to look at All wood cedar sign blanks. I have used them before and they are reasonably priced, perfectly glued up, and MEANT to be used for signs...
http://allwoodsignblanks.com/cedar2.htm

[signtist]

Brad, The way I do these are....
Simply stack the 2x4's untill you get it 2'+ tall.
I set 1 2x4 flat....tightbond glue on it...
then set the next 2x4 on and screw with about 3 deck screws.
Continue untill it's over 2' tall.
Next.... plane down both sides untill it's 2 1/2" thick. The screws are all inside except the top piece. Remove after it dries.
I've made 16' long signs this way. I would rip to width first to get rid of the rounded edges, then belt sand. John www.signgraphics1.com

[blackhawk]

John - Thanks for the idea on the deck srews for stacking the panels. I didn't mention this, but I was planning on putting a screw in each of the corners for the lamination of the two halves.

Bill - I have seen the Allwood blanks. I actually bought a sample sign from Harbor Sales made from an Allwood blank. I bought this before I bought Aspire, just to show potential customers what a 3D sign would look like. I had to send the first sample back to Harbor because it had delminated over about 8 inches of one joint. Since then, I haven't been real confident on the quality. Maybe I ordered that sample on the same day as I bought the Gorilla glue

[billp]

Just a thought; if Harbor used the blank for their "sample" it might not have been a first grade piece...

[dakers]

I would do exactly what John said. i have done something similar before using 4x4's with threaded rod and glue and it worked amazingly well.
have used this product before as well
http://www.perfectplank.com/
the sign in photo was done with perfect plank back in the 90's it was 4''thick
50498.jpg

[dakers]

http://www.perfectplank.com/cedar_si...nks_signs.html

this is the price list for the cedar sign blanks. they use the recorcinol glue too.
a 2x3ft blank western red cedar 2-7/16'' thick is only $117. plus shipping

[blackhawk]

Thanks Dick! Perfect Plank is much better priced than Allwood. The Allwood price for the 1-3/4" thickness was $126 + shipping from Harbor Sales. If I go with the 2-7/16, I won't have to worry about delamination of the two sides! Do they have any distributors on the East Coast or do they all ship direct from California?

Anyone else used Pefectplank? (absolutely no offence to Dick, I just like 2 opinions if I can get 'em)

[dakers]

Brad, i was reading their info. only one side is finished sanded. you may want to call them. they can get two sides good.
we have made hundreds of sign with their product but we always used the finger jointed cedar. I have never bought the planks without finger jointing. but that was before we switched to hdu which we like better. Have you used the HDU before?