Shopbot in a Cabinet Shop?

[mistersnow50]

William,

Yes you can, but with a couple of caviats. You can glue veneer, melamine, laminate, metal, or other substrates to it using Urea, contact cement, 5 minute epoxy, Gorilla glue etc. It's porousity allows an excellent bond with almost anything, but, whatever you do to one side, you must do to the other to prevent assymetrical shrink and pull. You do not have to use the same thickness, but whatever you apply to one side you must replicate on the other within a reasonable time frame, say, the same day. Also, you have to remember that this product is a structural foam, and although it has great characteristics, it has virtually no "grip strength" for hardware such as screws, bushings, etc, unless you replace a small square of the product with hardwood, bonded in place with a good 5 minute epoxy or similar product. We do this often, however, we don't use any wood screws at all, just threaded inserts of different size, pitch and lengths:

http://www.aircraftfast.com/inserts.htm

(Sandwich Panel honeycomb inserts on that page)

Thin melamine applied on the reverse side first then your veneer applied on the obverse side would do just fine. Klegecell has great resiliency. You can take a piece of 1/2" and bend it nearly in half before it snaps. But, because of that, it might be advisable to make sure that your piece of Klegecell is supported as much as possible underneath if you are intending to add wings or heavy wood structures on the perimeter of the table, unless you are anchoring those additional pieces on some other structure of the base other than the Klegicell.

[gerald_d]

Michael, thanks for the photos. I am sure that you would do well with a ShopBot, especially since you are proficient in CAD and know what your company Thermwood router can do. You are are not going to get the same speeds and finishes, so expect to do a little sandpapering. Another huge advantage (in addition to the price)of a ShopBot over the Multicams and Thermwoods, is the fact that you don't need to think twice before drilling holes through the table for fixing something.


And that brings me to your Klegecell as a table top . . . . If a veneer on one side will distort it, then it is far too flexible as a table top for working wood. But, if you only plan to work something as flexible as Klegecell, then you would probably be okay.

[mistersnow50]

Thanks Gerald,
I appreciate your inspiring words. I am certainly not up to the challenge of a Thermwood or Multicam as "one of my own". It appears that, if not for the advent of something such as the Shopbot, I would just resign myself to the art of making wooden templates and call it "part of the job"!
And as for the Klegicell and the veneer, it's neither the veneer nor the Klegicell, it's the glue. I've seen this happen with a 4' X 8' sheet of 1/2" plywood when laminate is glued only to one side and set aside. The next day, the plywood is warped like a banana. When I make my base layer, I glue a sheet of muslin on the backside of the klegecell, and then glue my fabric on the top side, and even months later, no warpage is even evident at all. It just needs balance. I learned this through trial and error, as many of my previous forms turned into themselves over time. Not aggressively, mind you, but enough for me to notice and require me to rework the art to straighten it out. Once I did, there was no noticable effect. But you do make a point. "Kleg" is not a cureall for every woe. Just simple ones.
If weight and strength considerations are a premium for anyone here, and price point is a factor readily/justifiably transferable to the endline consumer, then I can suggest a viable alternative:

http://www.nordam.com/prodserv.cfm?flatpanels

This is NOMEX. Many times stronger than Klegicell (but only in rigidity, not crush factor) Nomex will not bend at all! Yet it is as lightweight as Klegicell. It, too, is as flat as a pancake, available in many different thicknesses, but has no porousity whatsoever, and can be laminated with any substrate.
Excellent in building cabinets, tables, entertainment centers, or whatever you please, IF you can justify the price point for it. (To William: This product would be the "perfect product" for your needs. It would support everything you spoke about, even if you didn't have an additional anchor for your wings and peripherals. It might require the wood blocks or, instead, because of IT'S inherent characteristic honeycomb construction, would require the inserts I mentioned before with 5 minute epoxy shot into the cavities surrounding the insert, then the insert would become "one" with the panel, (if you should need it). But, if you thought the cost of the Klegicell was exorbitant, then watch out! Unless you buy some "damaged" goods from Nordam (from which you could use much of the undamaged portions), be prepared to spend about $600 for a 4' X 8' sheet of 1/2" flat panel ! Why it is so damned expensive I will never know, other than they are aware that there are only two companies that manufacture this product today:

Nordam, and:

http://www.aarcorp.com/manufact/panel_faa.html

Both manufacture a great product (and my employer stocks this product 100 layers thick, in each thickness!), but the price needs to really come down to reality for us "common folk" to appreciate!

I built a coffee table and two end tables with this product out of scrap from a job years ago, and it did exactly what William wanted it to do, and it performed brilliantly. Someday, I hope, the price will come down to reality! Until then, we either have to deal with lam plywood, MDF, or solid wood. There is a company that makes a cardboard based honeycomb product that Bus/Coach manufacturers are using that I have worked with and does very well, but I have trouble locating this company. When I do, I will certainly let you know!

[studebaker]

Don't forget Gil floor! Gil was the first to make the balsa core "flat panels". Their product line is even more extensive that AAR Composites or Nordam. Also, there's a small manufacturer of these honeycomb panels in Andrews, NC. I think the name is CAD Composites. And YES they are expensive, I have to pay $480.00 for a 4x10 sheet. We use our shopbot to manufacture aircraft floor panels for B-727, B-737, Fokker, Dornier and Saab.

[studebaker]

I forgot to mention.... You can create an "insert" by drilling a large diameter hole (for example: 9/16") and filling it with a strong epoxy. Then when that is cured, drill the correct size hole for your screw. Voila! Instant insert!

[rgbrown@itexas.net]

Mi

One of the paper cores I have used is called 'TRICELL" honeycomb. I was looking up the link when I found this little jewel:

http://howard.engr.siu.edu/staff2/ab...ites/honey.htm

AND:

http://boatdesign.net/Directory/Mate...mposite_Cores/

The paper core is neat in that one can put a structural skin on one side and then shape the other side before the panel (IF it is a developable surface) is applied. One other thing about 'vertical cell cores' as opposed to 'foam' cores is the glue use is considerbly less. One can 'roll' on a coat of suitable adhesive to the core and then bond the panel with the very little glue use and weight.

"DN" - ice-boats used a 3" phenolic impregnated core for the main 'beam'. I asked the designer how he came up with that thickness. He stated they thought a stiff main beam would be a benifit - and they had bought a trailer load of 3" core in an auction for very little money. So much for engineering!

Ron Brown - rgbrown@itexas.net

"In general the art of government consists in taking as much money as possible from one class of citizens to give to the other."
--Voltaire