This Forum seems to be changing - Good or Bad?

[myxpykalix]

Let me say this since a number of my comments were copied and comented on.
First, this is not meant to "one-up" any response.

When I first bought a shopbot I knew 0 about CNC and before i got mine I asked hundreds of questions which have been asked before. Some of those shopbotters who helped me asked the same questions when they were new and I am now answering those same questions for newbies that I asked.
That IS the way this works, that IS the way it is supposed to work. If this forum was not here how much more of a burden would Tech support have to handle?

In asking and answering questions you develop friendships with many, many people both off and on the forum, thru email and in person at the camps so when you see a post by them in here you answer with familiarity and friendship and kidding.

A good example is Joe Crumley, I've never met him, only talked to him via email and read his posts but do we risk losing his lifetime of experience and knowledge because a few "seldom contributors" don't like him selling his "post holes" here in the forum?
I for one enjoy the both the banter and the education Joe provides (so what if he's older then dirt, who cares?)lol

I need to remind some that they used the forum to sell their wares with no complaints so when others use it for their education or amusement it might look a bit hypicritical to complain.

And let me say again that I am one who is GUILTY of posting OT questions and posting sarcastic answers but it is only to those who I have come to know and have a friendship with who know that i only kid them (see Joe/dirt comment).

I think that the vast majority of my posts are ontopic and my answers are meant to help others and if you have to put up with a little humor once in a while well like my granddaughter says:
"Too Bad, So Sad"....

Again please don't read this as wanting to one-up or respond to anyone in particular but as with any gathering, you have a diversity of personalities and opinions and we all know the old saying about "opinions" don't we?

I have met a lot of people here who I consider friends (too many to name all) and if the price of their knowledge and friendship is having to deal with a bit of OT humor, thats a price I'M willing to pay.

[mitchjr]

I looked in the Shopbot Manual today and I could not find the section that states that WE MUST READ EVERY POST ON THE FORUM.........I simply read the post of interest and avoid the ones that are not related to my needs. This is not rocket science, but don't read it if you don't want to. I don't think that the Shopbot Police will come and repo your machine if they discover that you have not been reading the forum.

[jseiler]

I'd like people to agree to think through the "subject line" before starting a thread. I hate it when people post "I have a problem" as a subject line...how about "my blah blah is failing" or "having trouble with vcarve toolpath". Something descriptive. If I see another "you have to see this." post, I'll friggin scream loud enough to actually be physically heard where you live.


Tim subject is a perfect example of a subject line that makes sense and may be searched for later if you want that information.

[Gary Campbell]

I would like to expand on my earlier comments. As a relative newcomer (less than 3 years) to this forum, I have noticed what seems like a decline in quality of the posts. Maybe there are just more posts. Maybe there are just more opinions. Maybe the posters of the last 6 months of 2009 are different people than the posters of the 1st 6 months of 2007. Maybe we all just have more time to sit by the computer due to the economy. In any case, I agree with Tim, Robert and those who have been here long enough to know the difference.

I am one of those that use the forum to "sell my wares". Single line posts that are relevant and a request that all responses be off forum by PM. I had no intent to sell anything, but have had many requests for "goodies" that I have posted be offered for sale. Most of the time I post, it is to try and increase quantities to lower costs for interested parties. I sell far more $ of "accessories" to non ShopBot CNC owners than to ShopBotters. Shameless marketing, yes. Off topic or rambling posts, NO. Just ShopBot related items for sale. Just like the topic header reads.

When I ordered my machine I spent the 6 weeks of build and delivery time browsing the forum for information. I then used my notes of relevant topics to search for posts over the last 700 days. I learned everything I knew before my machine was delivered from those searches. Once my machine was delivered I practiced and tested my cutting strategies and honed them to my machine.

Here is one of my favorite posts from July 2007 from Brady Watson:

The PRS Standard OR Alpha both cut exceptionally well. Some people are never happy and ask a lot from a value priced tool or simply don't have enough 'seat time' on a CNC to know where the problem really lies. The thing to keep in mind with a CNC tool is, you can hand 10 people the same part to cut on the same model machine and you will get very different results from each. There are many factors involved with the 'chatter' issue...Speed, RPM, the method in which the part is being held down, cutting direction, stepdown values, and the geometry of the cutting bit ALL make a tremendous difference in cut quality in some materials. Equally important is the number of hours one has spent fine-tuning their cutting strategy, altering feeds, speeds and hold-down methods in the name of quality. One guy gets 'chatter'...and another gets perfect cuts. Like anything else worth doing well, the R&D it takes to create perfect cuts pays off big time. Anybody can just turn on a machine & run it...a CNC Operator makes adjustments along the way and records his findings to make life easier in the future when it comes time to cut that same material again.

In my 6yrs of 'Botting' I have learned that 99% of the problems, quality issues or glitches have been 100% my fault. The percentage has gone up even more since I have been running a PRS Alpha powered tool, since it's fine resolution eliminates some of the edge quality issues on older PRT tools with 1/4 stepping motor drivers. I compete with big iron & use my tool to make a living. If it wasn't up to the tasks I threw at it, it would have been sold long ago. (end quote)

That post, and many others from "back in the day" told "us newbies" to turn on the machine and practice, change our parameters and learn what works best on our machines. And to all of my "gurus" thank you for prompting me to learn on my own, rather than giving me the easy button with speeds and feeds. BTW, I just did a 30 day search for the names of my 5 "gurus" from 2007. 3 posts, period.

Remember, all experienced users are just that, experienced. Getcha some! Turn the machine on and practice. Get some scrap and practice. Basically just practice. Try some stuff. Break some bits. Practice. IT IS like riding a bycycle. And all the advice in the world cant make you learn anything until you do it for yourself. There is no easy button.

Crabby Old Man signing out.

[bcammack]

Pretty much everything said here so far describing forums and netiquette are unchanged from the days of FidoNet.

The customer base is changing and the economy has changed considerably over the past four years. This brings new personalities into the mix and causes old familiar ones to fall away.

We're transitioning from "propeller head" first-adopters to more conventional end-users. People that are less interested in how to build a clock and simply wanting to know what time it is.

The initiation of this thread is neither unique to Internet forums or unexpected. It simply reflects the natural ebb and flow of culture within on-line social bodies.

I know that I just automatically separate the wheat from the chaff as I read the forums every morning. It's habitual and based on acceptance of the nature of the environment. The old "objective vs subjective" thing.

I do know that the group will "reject" toxic members when they appear and the moderator will keep the peace by bouncing the inadvertent transgressions of the rules.

I personally am grateful for the mix of personalities and contributions to this forum. As somebody once said, "Nobody gets out alive." and so try to see the humor in life and enjoy all the various aspects of it.

It keeps me (comparatively) sane...

[jimmya]

I second what Brett said.

[bob_s]

I will go with those that say diversity is a good and natural part of this community. Obviously off topic, ie; political posts, should go elsewhere. I do believe that the string of posts about the economy and the difficult work environment that appeared last spring were a good thing. The idea that we are indeed a community, willing to share ideas, support, and even some offers of help with lease payments, is a testament to how good this forum is. Those posts where not off topic, they where relevant and necessary.
Those of us that had other training and professions will ask some stupid and repetitive comments. I guess that better use of the Google based board search, with it's advanced options, could stop some old questions from being asked anew. However that new and urgent question about vacuum or small bits might not seem like an old subject to the new,and somewhat terrified bot owner. I believe that this sort of change, caused by an increase in diversity , is a good thing.
Better picture capacity, possibly a "social comments area" if anyone wants it, are the only changes I would request. Along with a large "thank you" to the Shopbot staff and fellow owners who freely share their time,expertise,and experience here.
thanks
Bob

[kfitz]

Brett makes a lot of sense. I remember back in 2002 when it seemed like a week or more would go by without a single post. I'm just glad people are posting!

[rb99]

I feel since this thread there have been a lot less posts...

[chiloquinruss]

What part of laser scanners and rotary indexers and super vacuum systems and . . . are NOT technical? I'm a long time lurker, a one year owner, and I love this forum. I love the poking fun at one another and also throughly enjoy how quickly the friendly old timers jump in and help the newbies. This even after they answered the exact same question when asked by last months crop of newbies. I thank ShopBot for this forum and I also thank the thankless hours that others put into making this forum very meaningful to me personally. I love my bot and Aspire and of course all the help you all have given me. Russ