My First Real Paying CNC Sign Job

[Georgia Design Works]

Hey Alex, I'll have to look into that PVC from HD for $75. Wonder if that is decking material and does it come in 4x8 sheets? I have not used any PVC products yet and am anxious to try it.
And thanks again RossMosh for your helpful comments. When I cut the large letters out with the CNC I wanted to put a nice chamfer on the top edges so started with a profile tool path using a 60 deg v-bit. This allowed me to keep sharp inside corners, at least on the surface of the letters. Then I switched to a .25 EM and did the profile cutout. Because of the chamfer on the front, I didn't bother with counterboring the tab locations on the back. The vector graphic file I used was shared between the cnc and laser and it was no problem to quickly cut some paper templates with the tab locations. For many applications the laser is so much faster than doing the manual tool change, Z-zero, and material hold down on the CNC. With tab locations marked it took no time at all with a .75 forstner bit in a drill press to cut clean eighth inch deep holes on the backs of the letters.
This one job does not make me a sign guy, yet. I wasn't really sure what direction this CNC was going to take my business. Before the ShopBot I did mostly conventional woodworking for a mostly military clientele at a local Army Base. Custom built ins, display cases, flag stands, chain of command boards, policy letter boards, conference room displays with wall lettering and large layered military crests, etc, mostly cut out with a laser. For thicker materials I used the laser to cut thin templates to use for pattern routing of thicker parts on a table router. I also did lots of recognition awards such as raster engraved plaques, and sword holders and such. I was hoping that the 3d capabilities of the ShopBot would be a boon to my business by allowing me to produce a better product. This hasn't proven to be the case because I realize that the machining times for most 3d projects will price me out of reach. I can do a stunningly beautiful crest but the 10+ hours of machining and handpainting demands a price point beyond what most can pay. In this market anyway. In the meantime, I'm having a blast designing projects and using this CNC. I am building my resume right now with samples of what I can do. Most people have no imagination and they need to see something in order to see how this technology can fill their own needs. I am hoping that this lobby sign will generate other business. This is a large company that outsources many contractors for commercial jobs. The lobby traffic should create some inquiries. Maybe my future is doing house address signage for new subdivisions. Or architectural millwork. Who knows.
George

[robtown]

It's beautiful work. You way undercharged.

Gemini can produce letters from your .ai (export from corel) files BTW. You are not limited to using just the fonts they show. And you can just send them a PMS color number for the finish.

I've never seen PVC sheets at HD, but you can buy PVC "boards" in the lumber section up to 3/4" thick that can be used for letters to be mounted indoors. It has a wood texture on one side, but the other side is smooth.

You can also buy aluminum studs from McMaster Carr, drill a slightly undersized hole and thread directly into the substrate (carefully, and maybe with a dollop of epoxy on the end) , as opposed to the mounting pads from Gemini.

My first "sign" I charged $75.00 for, it probably cost me 3-4 times that much to actually produce.

[joe]

George, My complements on a job well done.

Like you, when I started out most of my work was under priced. That's what it takes to understand what it takes to make signs.

On wall lettering, I route a full sized pattern from 1/4" masonite, place it on the wall, then using E6100 they are glued in place. The letters are held in place for a couple of hours before removing the Masonite pattern. Haven't had a failure with this method in years.

PVC is far superior in almost every way. Don't you just hate the gritty mess HDU leaves behind. Not to mention the difficult priming process. PVC doesn't need priming with all most any paint.

Joe
www.normansignco.com

[jerry_stanek]

I route card board templates for mine lighter than masonite and you can use painters tape to hold it in place. A few pieces of foam tape and some silicone to hold the letters up unless they are really big then I use studs.

[joe]

I'd rather have rootcanal than take a hammer drill on an install. Large, heavy letters can be held just fine with a good template and E6100. No tape needed. The only exception is for cast metal letters. I hire that out.

[Georgia Design Works]

Thanks Joe, Jerry, and Robtown for the feedback. That is some impressive signage in that attached image. I'm guessing that is PVC. I also checked out your website Joe. I was blown away. I'm going to look into some of that E6100 adhesive.
I cruised through Home Depot and Lowes yesterday looking for some substrates suitable for signage. I saw those PVC deckboards (trim boards) that you refered to. I asked about trupan, and azek and all I got was blank stares. I was told to go to their website and if its there I can order it and pick it up at the store. Or I'll just stick with Reece Supply Company out of the Atlanta area. I recently opened an account with them and was delighted to find out that they make a delivery run to my area every Thursday. That'll save me 4 hours of roundtrip driving. Everyone thanks for all the tips and advice.

[joe]

GDW

Thanks for the complements.

Yes the panels in the photograph are PVC from .75" stock. We get this material from Reece. Cost is about $145@. Be sure when ordering PVC to get at least .75" or 1" stock. This is exterior rated but .25" & .50" are not good outside. They will warp when painted with dark colors. For the past year I've been working on a parks project, for the City of Norman. All the signs are painted dark brown. There is some expansion to deal with but by leaving expansion fixtures there's no problem. Many of these signs are in playgrounds where children are climbing all over them. This material is tough enough to withstand the pressure they receive. The letters are cut from DiBond and inset which keeps them safe. My first attempt was with HDU. It didn't last long.

My favorite paints are PPG's DTM's and Nova Color. You gotta be choosey when ordering Nova since most of the colors are transparent and translucent but they do have some excellent opaque colors. It only comes by mail so you'll need to give them a call and request their color chart. There's no color chart in the industry like theirs. If you've never used transparent colors it's a real treat. You can get effects that really bring a sign to life. Once you try it, all other signs look like third grade, primary paintings. You know red, blue, yellow and greens look nice but with a little transparent grade to them they look really special

Joe

[Georgia Design Works]

Joe, That is some great info. I like the way you did the lettering on those park signs with the shadow contour. I was wondering if you would be painting the pockets or using inset letters. So I understand you will be using dibond letters inserted into those pockets. The PVC will be painted brown. That makes sense as the texturing will give it a wood appearance. And I'm assuming that the dibond lettering will be painted a bright constrasting color? What sort of primer and paint do you use on dibond? I would love to see a posted picture of one of those signs when it is completed.
Also Joe, could you explain what an "expansion fixture" is? Would that be something like a u-channel framework that holds the PVC sign and allows movement for expansion and contraction? Kinda like a raised panel door in a cabinet where the panel is held loosely in a grooved frame.
I have seen numerous references to Nova colors. I need to check that out. Thank you for sharing all this great info

[joe]

GDW,

Please take a look back at my previous posts on these topics. I hate to repeat myself and show photo's that have been before.

When I get time, I'm off for vacation, and will be glad to show one of the many methods of attachment that allows for expansion and movement of materials.

Joe

[bleeth]

Hey Joe:

Taking a road trip on the bike?
Stop on by-extra bedroom waiting.
(We should talk-it has been a while.)

Dave