Buddy 48 or full size ShopBot

[gordon]

The considerations we most commonly discussed when asked which machine is best are; how much space is available, what does the budget allow and what is the intended product, will it be a specific product that only requires a smaller machine or will the tool be used for a more diverse selection of products or be a larger size for the most part. These are the most typical considerations in deciding which form factor is best when purchasing a ShopBot, whether it be a full size PRS or a Buddy.

The Power Stick was originally a part of the Buddy design. In fact, the first few shipped had guide bars with power stick wheels and ball rollers, as well as, cam handles for releasing the table so a power stick can be installed. Unfortunately, fabrication of power sticks wasn't up to speed before shipping these tools and the power sticks had to be made available later. The latest Buddy tools were designed to improve upon these tools by making them much more rigid than their predecessors. One way this was done was to use a single sheet of 1/4" steel for the main deck instead of many individual parts bolted together that required lots of finessing to get them aligned properly. This also had the advantage of using laser accuracy in cutting of holes for the power stick wheels and other critical parts. These changes made the alignment of the power stick much easier and reliable by removing the many variables that multiple parts created. The new deck also allowed us to add rollers to the center under the cutter instead of just the outside edges, providing much more support surface. These rollers support the work holding surface better by spreading the load out and help to prevent the surface from being pushed down when plunging or pulling it up when using an up cup spiral. Another big change was to go to a power sitck that is 3 times wider and almost twice as thick. This allowed the wheel base for the power stick to be increased considerably and providing a powers stick with a higher load capacity and more surface to mount the work or work surface to.

Other changes include changing the orientation of the power stick motor, making it more rigid and unlikely to twist under load. The cam handle was simplified and the release handle moved to the side of the table where it is easier to access without having to reach under the table plate or power stick to get to it.

We still have Aluminum plates and Phenolic plates for those that want a support surface that is really rigid in a 24x32 or 24x48 format for their new Buddys.

Hopefully this describes the differences between the first and second generation of the Buddy tools. Any further feedback, observations, comments that anyone would like to add are welcome either here or emailed to me.

[ajf]

Thanks for the responses this is a great forum and definitely a strong plus for going with a ShopBot.

[erik_f]

So Gordon,
When do the old Buddy owners get the option for the 1/4" steel plate upgrade
ha ha ha

[harryball]

Al, seeing on in person is really the best way to get a feel. Good luck with your decision and keep us posted.

[dana_swift]

Gordon- Your statement: "... the first few shipped had guide bars with power stick wheels and ball rollers, as well as, cam handles for releasing the table so a power stick can be installed." Is clearly false.

I own one of the first buddies, and it had NONE of those features. I have the photos to prove it. It is a great machine, but the ability to accomodate a powerstick was clearly sold as an "option".

If you wish to make that statement, I would like a refund for the extra cash I had to shell out for the missing features that were supposed to have been part of the product. Check the ledger.

D

[jharmon]

Gordon,

Can you post a picture showing this 1/4" steel deck configuration? I am curious as to what that's all about.

Also, the remedy for the PS motor twisting problem sounds very worthy. Are older buddies able to employ the new wider/thicker PS and motor setup as an upgrade perhaps?

Thanks for all the great info
Jim

[erik_f]

When I bought my BT48 the PowerStick was still under development. As far as I know the first Buddies that came off the line didn't even have the steel punched on the cross member so the guide block would fit it. So I'm with Dana on the idea that the first few shipped with the powerstick guide block installed as I believe mine was also one of the first production BT48's and there was no guide block or cam installed. These posts aren't meant to hang anyone out to dry...but I directly asked if there were any planned major design changes planned for the BT in the near future. The answer was a "NO" with a laugh at the suggestion of the idea. I was willing to wait if there was any changes going to be made...but again I'm quite happy with my machine and the price I was able to get it for. When I purchased my BT48 the price was $5800. I guess I shouldn't gripe.

[ajf]

I would love to see a ShopBot in action but the long and expensive drive or plane ride out of the Yukon Territory makes it hard to justify. I purchased my first CNC based on budget and available space, but in the end what I really found I should have done is based in its ability to live up to its specification and what type of support was available. Having said that, it was purchased as learning tool and I definitely learned a lot, but I’m just as happy the company I bought the machine from has since gone out of business and no one else would have to deal with the frustrations I experienced with that company.
My background is in engineering and computer sciences, and I would like to think that when I research CNC machines I know when good technical information is being presented or not, but also an active forum adds a lot of benefits to that research. So what I found over a period of a year now, looking at many different machines is I keep coming back to ShopBot. There is also another reason for this: I’ve been using VCarvePro, Cut3d, Photocarve, Mach3 and soon Aspire for several years and really like this software compared to the 2 other Cad Cam packages I have purchased and learned, so going with ShopBot also makes a lot of sense to me from this aspect.
Budget wish I can afford either, space wish I have the room, but would be giving up some assembly space permanently if I went for a full size table. Work table size: most of what I like doing could be handled on a Buddy 48 however, I do get requests for interesting work that requires a larger work surface every so often, that I really hate turning down because I would just like to do it (cutting boat panels for Stitch and glue construction or a large sign). So if the Buddy can provide the capability, and the accuracy to do what I want when it comes to those lager pieces it would be the best option for me. I’ve seen pictures on the web of some of things being done with the powerstick and it sure looks like the precision that I need and could live with is there, but I would like to still hear from the people who have used the powerstick and the Buddy to see if they are satisfied with the results they are getting.
Thanks again for all your responses.

[ted]

Hello All,

I don't really have much to add to this thread (and probably should not even jump in) because I believe there are a full range of appropriate and helpful points that have already been made. In particular, as stressed by Dana and others, a Buddy is not a replacement for a gantry tool if your primary purpose is to do panel processing. It would not be an efficient use of space, and even with outfeeds rollers, a Buddy does not offer the same robust support as a grantry tool. This may become particulary significant if you want to use an industrial ('universal') vacuum hold-down system. You will also not be able to move a long PowerStick in and out with the same speed that a gantry can position itself from one end of the table to the other.

I hope that we have conveyed these limitation in our literature and commentary on the website. Buddies are great for some applications and will occasionally stand in for some big work. But the limitations need to be appreciated. (Though I confess I have Buddy envy and am hoping for one to replace a 7 year old PRT in my barn.)

Now with respect to the newer deck design, as indicated by the discussion above, there are both gains and a few losses with the new arrangement. The PowerStick system is beefed up. But as noted, we no longer provide a solid aluminum table standard with the tool. We can still provide you an aluminum table or a phenolic table. Phenolic is more machinable, stiffer, and a little lighter. A small rigid table may be the most appropriate choice for 'milling' types of applications. The beauty of the PowerStick system is that you can attach anything to it.

The one disadvantage of the new system is that the outboard edge of a table attached to the PowerStick is not held down by a v-wheel and rail, as with the earlier Buddies. Of course, such rails could always be added for really heavy work. We have felt that a useful option for the Buddy tools will be hold-down rollers that work across the table to hold down the work material. Or, they could work just at the outside edge of the table to keep the table held rigidly down agains the lower rollers -- something that might be useful with upcut spiral cutters that create an upward pull against the table.

I am attaching a photo of two Buddies about to ship here today. The first is a Buddy32 on which you can see the details of the new deck, PowerStick, and table support rollers. The second is a Buddy48 with a wood table in position on the PowerStick.

Ted Hall, ShopBot Tools

[ted]

The Buddy photos:

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