Grounding flexible dust collection hose - questions

[aschutsky]

Hi guys,

I had my first lost communications yesterday (multiple times) after cutting 10+ projects, so now is time to address the DC grounding issue. I've ordered 50' of stranded copper to run inside of the hose. My com tests are scored in the low 80s so I'm assuming this has got to be my issue. Since I haven't seen any pictures of this implemented, I have a few questions:

1) Should the wire run entire length of the hose? If so, how are securing the end at the dust foot since it is not connected at that end?

2) Is it OK to tie into electrical ground (connects to grounding rod outside shop) at the end of the hose opposite of the machine? I have another 20' of PVC piping where the flexible hose connects, otherwise I would connect directly to the blower motor like normal.

3) Should I just drill a hole in the end of the flexible pipe at the end closest to the PVC piping for the copper wire to poke through and seal up with glue?

4) For those using blast gates and multiple connections - How are you running wire through these? Are you simply grounding each portion on it's own and hooking to a common ground?

My setup:
http://cdn.avsforum.com/c/cc/900x900...scg1l7azd.jpeg


Thanks in advance guys.

[coryatjohn]

I would be checking your other possible reasons for static. Are all moving metal components wired to ground? That means anything that moves has to have its own connection. Connect all ground wires to a common point. Be sure that the ground to earth is solid.

The hose may be an issue but as far as I can tell, the hose grounding is more of a last chance thing than the first thing you should do.

[aschutsky]

I have seen this article:

http://shopbottools.com/ShopBotDocs/...%2008%2007.pdf

Not ALL of my rails are grounded, but then again I have a PRT Alpha with steel rails if that makes any difference. The previous owner had no other ground connections other than the DC hose and had no issues for years. There is a fair amount of static in the DC hose as of now. The only other change I had made yesterday was changing the port my USB hub is plugged into.

From what I've read from Gary and Brady on here the hose is a very likely suspect and very common.

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/sho...97&postcount=3

[scottp55]

Andrew, I don't know if it's connected to your problem, but on both our Desktops we have problems unless we have USB connected to the same slot as SB3 was installed on. We've moved both machines a couple of times and problems go away when we use the original slot. Maybe just us.

[tri4sale]

I had comm issues as soon as I hooked up my DC. Ran copper wire thru the flex hose, at the ShopBot end I pulled out the hose and wrapped around the hose clamp to secure it, at the dust collector end I put small hole thru the plastic adapter and sealed the hole, and then connected wire to dust collector.

Not sure if this is the "correct" way to do it, but as soon as I did that I've had no further comm issues (knock on wood it stays that way)

And correct is in " " because what I've learned about grounding is that everyone has an opinion, and what works for one person does not work for another.

[coryatjohn]

>> Not ALL of my rails are grounded, but then again I have a PRT Alpha with steel rails if that makes any difference.

If it's not welded together it needs to be grounded with a copper wire.

That's my opinion anyway.

[jTr]

Andrew:

I fought this for the first two years of ownership of my machine. That experience has revealed it may be a number of issues combined. Since you're on the topic of grounding, follow it to the end, thus eliminating it from your checklist of what to do.

Copper ground wire almost eliminated the issue for me. In my case, I drilled a few small holes in the Kent dust shoe, and made a simple cross pattern of the bare copper wire, which acts as a stop for the larger particles as well as an anchor point for the spiral to travel inside the flex hose. Remainder of my DC system is 100% metal, so I simply terminated the copper wire at same point as the flex hose, and grounded to the metal duct by fastening the wire with a sheet metal screw. Per SB assembly guide, I've got a substantial grounding point on one leg of the Shopbot, where paint was scuffed off and a grounding terminal was fastened by the electrician.

Since you have lengths of PVC, you do need to make a grounding path to the dust collector housing, which in turn should have a grounding wire tracing directly back to your breaker box. Doing so through all of the duct is wise, as it will:
1> Establish a fully grounded system that not only will assure you that you've done all you can for the SB issue, but,
2> May also reduce static ignition fire hazard that many argue is present when utilizing PVC in this manner.

What was the single most effective thing I did to really, really eliminate the dreaded lost comm's issue?
Upgrade to latest version of control software. In my case, it exposed a few problems with my control computer trying to update unbeknownst to me (and contrary to the fact that all the proper update reminders were turned off in the user accounts settings of Win7 - keep an eye on that little flag indicating PC issues that need to be addressed on the right hand side of the start bar - you would not believe the rash of issues it caused!).
I really do like the updated features, such as the memory keys now available on the keypad.

Why would that help with communications? If you read up on the details:

Enables 2X+ faster communications and 7X more information buffered on Control Card:
Speed and buffering creates more robust communication between PC and Control Card....

This is specifically meant to target the problems you and I have experienced with lost comm's.

I have not lost communication since updating last month, and sincerely hope my experience helps you eliminate this issue - I feel your pain - (and hopefully no more!)

Best of luck,

Jeff

[tri4sale]

In my case, I drilled a few small holes in the Kent dust shoe, and made a simple cross pattern of the bare copper wire, which acts as a stop for the larger particles as well as an anchor point for the spiral to travel inside the flex hose.

Now thats a great idea, never would have thought of that, and thanks for the picture, I've printed it and will be doing something similar with my Kent dust shoe. Just hope I left enough slack down there to do this, else I'll be stranding some wire together.

[myxpykalix]

I just skimmed each article but you are supposed to ground both ends of your wire. One end to your carriage/dustshoe, wire goes thru pipe then other end gets attached to your dust collector. I've been doing it this way for 8 years now with no issues.

[coryatjohn]

Andrew:

I fought this for the first two years of ownership of my machine. That experience has revealed it may be a number of issues combined. Since you're on the topic of grounding, follow it to the end, thus eliminating it from your checklist of what to do.

Copper ground wire almost eliminated the issue for me. In my case, I drilled a few small holes in the Kent dust shoe, and made a simple cross pattern of the bare copper wire, which acts as a stop for the larger particles as well as an anchor point for the spiral to travel inside the flex hose. Remainder of my DC system is 100% metal, so I simply terminated the copper wire at same point as the flex hose, and grounded to the metal duct by fastening the wire with a sheet metal screw. Per SB assembly guide, I've got a substantial grounding point on one leg of the Shopbot, where paint was scuffed off and a grounding terminal was fastened by the electrician.

Since you have lengths of PVC, you do need to make a grounding path to the dust collector housing, which in turn should have a grounding wire tracing directly back to your breaker box. Doing so through all of the duct is wise, as it will:
1> Establish a fully grounded system that not only will assure you that you've done all you can for the SB issue, but,
2> May also reduce static ignition fire hazard that many argue is present when utilizing PVC in this manner.

What was the single most effective thing I did to really, really eliminate the dreaded lost comm's issue?
Upgrade to latest version of control software. In my case, it exposed a few problems with my control computer trying to update unbeknownst to me (and contrary to the fact that all the proper update reminders were turned off in the user accounts settings of Win7 - keep an eye on that little flag indicating PC issues that need to be addressed on the right hand side of the start bar - you would not believe the rash of issues it caused!).
I really do like the updated features, such as the memory keys now available on the keypad.

Why would that help with communications? If you read up on the details: This is specifically meant to target the problems you and I have experienced with lost comm's.

I have not lost communication since updating last month, and sincerely hope my experience helps you eliminate this issue - I feel your pain - (and hopefully no more!)

Best of luck,

Jeff

That's a great idea! I can't tell you how many items (like gloves!) have gone down that damn tube and into the barrel. I'm going to add that to my Kent shoe too.