Check on Joe in Norman, OK

[blackhawk]

I saw on the news this morning that a tornado hit Norman, OK. This is where Joe Crumley has his shop.

Joe - Let us know if you are OK. I hope everyone is alright.

[dubliner]

Had that thought watching the news too, hope al is well Joe & Doug Strickland also.

[wberminio]

Hope are well!

[toych]

Guys, I had the same thought this morning.

[joewino]

You know, they have phones there in Oklahoma. Anybody ever thought of calling Joe.

He's fine...just spoke with him. Nearest twister was over a mile away.

[tuck]

You know, they have phones there in Oklahoma. Anybody ever thought of calling Joe.

He's fine...just spoke with him. Nearest twister was over a mile away.

If I was a twister, I'd avoid Joe too!;)

[joe]

Thanks fellow for your concern.

All's well on the western front.

[joe]

The Mistake Corrected.


Thanks to Chappy for pointing out my mistake on this sign. It was installed a couple of years ago and I kept procrastinating.


It all came to a head when I was following through with a promised steak dinner. Over a big fat steak ,at a up scale OKC restaurant Chappy asks if it would be ok if he gave me a little criticism on a sign. What could I say? Never mind my bill for the steak, now I'm in for some analysis. It was the Purcell Chiropractic which didn't have enough contrast between the lettering and the background. He was right and I knew it.


Today I installed a new set of .75 PVC letters which I painted off white and it's looks much better. I always listen to our elder statesmen.

[tuck]

The Mistake Corrected.
I always listen to our elder statesmen.

As you should, Joe. Raymond is very elderly indeed. Last I heard, he was 97.

Interesting color, red is. Brushed or rolled over a light or dark background, it covers poorly, even with top quality paint. Spray it on, and it does much better in my experience. Why is that?:confused:

So you newbies pay attention: Lots of times a customer will tell you that he/she wants the letters red, ..."so they will stand out". Red is a dark color in the hue of things, and will only stand out matched in contrast against a lighter color, or visa versa. Also, red, rather painted of manufactured out of most any material, fades in the sun,....especially plastic and PVC.

A common mistake I see all the time is red letters on a dark background, the most common being red vinyl letters pasted on the windows of convince stores and such. Many years ago when I was in sales, I would tell customers; "You don't want red. You want white. It will stand out and read much better."

"No! We want red! It is brighter!"

"Ok then. Have it your way."

Two or three weeks later, out goes our crew to replace the red copy with white. Customer wouldn't listen to good advice and had to pay twice.

Be careful with dark blue as well. Pretty on paper,...that's about it.;)

[joe]

I'd like to blame someone else for this mistake but it was my mine. I under estimated the color change that would take place over time with Sculpt Nouveau. I used bronze for the background and misted it with Tiffany Green which renders a light powder blue surface. The letters were painted with Copper. It all looked very good but over time the light blue background turned dark. I didn't seal it off. O well, I was glad to make another set of letters.


I used the cheap Critter spray gun with exterior lates on .75” PVC.


I was fortunate to have pocketed the letters. Had they been glued to the surface, I'd have to re-surface the backgrounds. Pocketing has been a standard technique for the past two years. Gone are the days of trying to paint letters on the sign face.

[joewino]

Close Mark... close, but not exact.

After Joe describes anything, I am a little confused because he always remembers the "facts" a little different than me....but then I try to humor him. He means well, bless his heart. (For those not from Texas - you can say just about anything you want about someone as long as you add "bless his heart" - "He sure is fat, bless his heart.")

Color value is relative. Something is dark or light (or bright and bold) only in comparison to what it is next to. Like Mark said, Red is a bright color but it also has a dark color value, so to be more visible it has to be placed next to a light value color - white, yellow, cream, etc.

To attract the viewer's eye in your layout always place the priority copy in an area where the darkest dark contrasts with the lightest light. Those who are supposed to know say that the greatest value contrast (and therefore the most noticable) is black and yellow.

Negative space is also an attention getter - the more negative space there is around a word or graphic the more the human eye is drawn to it.

Contrast can also be the weight of the letter. The heavier (bolder) the letter, the more visible it it. That doesn't mean that it takes up all the space and is jammed clear out to the edge, but rather that the positive space and negative space are approximately the same.

By using color and value contrast you can direct the viewer's eye to any part of the layout that you want them to see first.

In my opinion, if your eye is first drawn to the border or a phone number there is something wrong with the layout.

Layout (design) is simply knowing a few puzzle pieces and being able to put them together properly. Design is a visual process - it must never appear mechanical. These puzzle pieces are principles, not fonts or panel shapes.

Design is the only way you can compete with those in your area that do the same type of work as you. If you try to compete with price you both will go down a slippery, spiral slope until you both go broke. I would rather be know as the guy that does attractive signs rather than the guy that does inexpensive (also known as "cheap") signs.

[Big-Tex]

By using color and value contrast you can direct the viewer's eye to any part of the layout that you want them to see first.

In my opinion, if your eye is first drawn to the border or a phone number there is something wrong with the layout.

Layout (design) is simply knowing a few puzzle pieces and being able to put them together properly. Design is a visual process - it must never appear mechanical. These puzzle pieces are principles, not fonts or panel shapes.

Design is the only way you can compete with those in your area that do the same type of work as you. If you try to compete with price you both will go down a slippery, spiral slope until you both go broke. I would rather be know as the guy that does attractive signs rather than the guy that does inexpensive (also known as "cheap") signs.

I could not say any better, color, contrast and layout.

Joe:
good to hear you are ok

Also last sentence tops it all off. Bravo

[rb99]

Joe what do you mean by pocketed?

Did you do anything to the pillars or is it just the photo?

Did you do this for free?

Thanks and really nice work,

RIB

[joe]

Richard,



Here is an example of what I meant by pocketed. Our resident expert, Raymond C. and I agree that it's easier to paint letters as separate pieces, away from the sign, than dinking around with brushes. Although I love my brushes. It's not the most efficient way to go.


I'm going through a period where I'm 3D shaping letters. Letters don't take much time to carve out. I do include an extra charge although it takes very little extra time. Sometimes I profile my lettering with a round overbit and then cut them out. Picture Shown


I can't imagine going back to painting letters on the sign. One fast and easy technique is to paint DiBond for the letters and cut them out. There so thin, they don't need a pocket. But I suggest leaving a little outline around them. That way you have a good platform on which to place them.

[rb99]

Thanks Joe.

So you use the term pocketed for any letters completely cut out?

Do the letters in the middle get a separate cut out inserted inside?

What glue / dowel method do you use?

Thanks,

RIB

[joewino]

They are called pocketed letters because they go into a "pocket". They could also just be adhered to a flat surface but by having an insert they are more easily assembled, and they are more secure.

The individual cut out letters in the right photo are put into the "pocket" shown in the middle photo.

We also get around having to paint individual letters directly on the sign by applying vinyl for the lettering and allowing a small outline around the outside of the vinyl that is painted a constrasting color. That saves on time also.

As Joe said, we try to cut as many pieces separately as possible, paint them, and then assemble. It's not easy to have to paint up to an edge and make it look sharp.l

Joe considers me an expert as long as I agree with him.

[jimmya]

Is he OK????

[keith]

Good info. I'm curious about the "pocketed letters."

Are you saying that you had to remove the letters and replace them with new painted letters? How did you remove the old ones without damaging the sign?

And do you need to seal/caulk them so nothing gets in behind the letters?

Thanks for the help!

-Keith

[joe]

Keith,

I assume you're talking about the Purcell Chiropractic sign. I replaced the letters with .75" PVC. I had the file so it wasn't much trouble to re-cut a new set. The client was pleased since the change out was done before he was aware I was on the propety.