what accessories should we really get initially?

[God's Girl]

I'm sure this has been answered a million times and I don't want it JUST from the company; but....
What do you recommend a new botter to purchase up front in order not to get overly frustrated when learning by mistakes? Wood shop should be started next week sometime. Making room for a PRSalpha, single spindle 96-60 (I think - want to make dining tables, cabinets (just for our woodshop and house), carved doors, carved mantels, carved wall coverings, door trims, etc. all in wood. Why reinvent the wheel when I can use all your experience to make it more beautiful? Please, don't be offended, if I don't respond quickly. Our internet connection is nearly nonexistant.
?vacuums
?collets
?bits
?programs
?computer(s) set up
space needed (shop's not built, yet!)
anything else....

[jerry_stanek]

You should upgrade the parts works to Aspire for one thing. A good dust collector. If you think you will use vacumn hold down get Trupan or ULMDF for a spoil board. Any good computer to run the shopbot and a computer for design that computer you may want a large monitor. I like to keep the Shopbot computer separate from any other things like the internet and any programs that could want to run when I run a file so it doesn't have to have a very big hard drive. You should at least get a 1/8 collet Check with Shopbot and see what collets come with the unit.

[steelhead]

Murquitta,

There is allot to consider. First off do you have any experience with cad cam, or cnc equipment? It's not hard to learn, but there is a learning curve.

If you have already ordered your machine, you should be able to download the control software and partworks/ 3d as well. Start playing with them. But before that you need to have a cad software. The kind needed will depend on what you are doing with it. Google Sketch up may be a good place to start with the cad. It is a free. I have never used it, but from my understanding it does a good bit. I would hold off on extras until you get comfortable with the the above mentioned.

[God's Girl]

Whoah! You guys are quick! I'm actually still connected to the inet.
No, I have no experience with a CNC; but, I used to be a perio hygienist (i.e. worked in the blood and guts of a person's mouth below where you could see the shape of the tooth...) so I'm pretty good with my hands and have messed with Correll Draw - looking forward to that curve and "carve."
Yes, we will use vacuum to hold down, just don't know which brand is the most efficient all around.
No, haven't ordered a machine, yet. Was hoping beyond hope that I could find a used one or fall into a promo....
Can't download anything to practice really until Wild Blue opens up in our area again (currently have an AT&T card in an area where they send all their juice to voice/phone service, but better than squat.) Tried to download the free trial aspects of Aspire - a big no workie.
Will be concentrating on 1) learning the hows and whats of the machine and brushing up on those forgotton math skills then 2) learning cabinet making with it. I have all the other wood shop equipment needed.
Makes sense to separate the two computers. Thanks. Main one will be in the office 12' away, Shop computer will be living with it's ShopBot.
Haven't figured out where to get the ULMDF, yet.

I'll check back ?tomorrow or in a couple of days.
marquitta

[bcondon]

Marquitta,

1. WIth Partworks... play with the tutorials
2. I do have Aspire but have not used it nearly enough so I have not
cut anything 3d yet... but will in the next week or so.
3. Get a good set of ear protection....I use worktunes (yellow) not because of the radio, but because they are comfortable and effective... the radio works too.
4. Dust collection is important. Some woods are carcenogenic (or however that is spelled). mine is a 3HP Reliant which I do not think is available any longer but works well.
5. Get some basic ideas of what you want to do and study them... Try to put them in Partsworks or Aspire.

I purchased the starter bit kit and that got me going.

Hey Jerry, why the 1/8 " collet? you got my curiosity...

And when in doubt.... ask because there is years of experience with some of the finest people I ever "met"

6. Have fun with it!

Bob

[michael_schwartz]

If your getting a porter cable router, I would pick up the air deflector from shopbot, and order a set of precision collets from precisebits.com. You really have to try hard to over tighten and jam up the aftermarket ER style collets. They tolerances are tight so they do release suddenly when loosening which takes some getting used to.

As far as tooling, this is mostly up to your needs but the starter bit set is quite versatile if you don't know what you need already.

A pair of digital calipers is an absolute must from my experience. I use mine on every single cnc project, as well as around the shop on a daily basis as well. Cheap ones work ok if your on a budget but plan to replace the original batteries. If you have the money, the more expensive ones are of course ideal.

As far as software, the Aspire upgrade is highly recommended. The first 3 jobs I did with aspire, I couldn't have taken on without. Those 3 jobs almost paid for the upgrade. Personally I would rather have a home built machine, and spend money on software, than have a $20,000 machine and none at all.

Partworks will get you started, but aspire will open up a whole new window of opportunities. There is an entire world of other software out there as well, others can comment on.

For hold down, I would ask the question do you need a vac table. Otherwise, a box of sheet rock screws and some creativity will go along way.

Finally your other machinery will play an equally important role. I still use my planer, jointer, table saw, bandsaw, and router table on almost every project.

As far as space I have a PRS Standard 48x96 with a a full sized hybrid table saw, 15" planer, 8" jointer, 14" bandsaw, 26" drum sander, drill press, router table, miter saw, and lumber rack crammed into a 2 car garage. that combined with my finishing area/bench room, and a 200 square foot gallery works out to be about 900 square feet. Somehow have just enough space to work, but of course there are comprises, such as the fact I can't easily cut a full sheet of plywood on the table saw, but with the shopbot thats not a big deal.

[shoeshine]

PS to Michael...

I'd love to see your set up to get all that machinery into a 2-car.

I'm in the midst of moving to a new space, basicly a 2-car with an extra 8' x 22' clean(er) room., and I'm beating my head in autocad over how to get all my **** in there in a workable flow.

Chris

[myxpykalix]

An option that has not been talked about is an indexer. I would consider this and even if you can't afford one from shopbot there are homemade ones talked about in the indexer section of this forum.

Of all the options i believe an indexer will give you the most options to make a wider variety of products then any other addon. If you want to make tables, well tables need legs right? This is perfect for that.

Stairs need balusters, you can make half round fluted pilasters for the fronts of cabinets, and many other things that other options can't do for you.
There was something about a new feature in Aspire that i heard would help in the design or cutting of 3d round projects like columns i think.

So before you purchase a machine talk to the folks at shopbot and get the best info on what machine/setup will work best to incorporate an indexer and whether you buy it now or later you will have the option to add it to that particular model.

Go to the indexer posts and virtual show and tell and look at some of the beautiful work that guys like Stephen Mosher, and information that Randall Newcomb have made on the indexer. These guys are artists and make some real nice work with their indexers. Thats my 2 cents....

[jerry_stanek]

I use the 1/8 inch collet almost as much a I do the the others. It is easy finding 1/8 inch shank bits for doing carvings and finish passes.

[cabnet636]

if i were not producing sheetgoods (cabinetry boxes or sign letters etc) i would consider a hold down vac an extremly expensive option that may not get used as much as one would think, for non commercial use there are plenty of work holding work arounds that are well proven!! a rotary can be a lot of fun yet there is a reasonable amount of curve just to accomplish the task you listed and it can be added later as the need arises.

[dlcw]

Marquitta

How much woodworking experience do you have now? I noticed in your second post you mentioned learning to make cabinets.

IMHO I think that before you jump into a CNC you should get up to speed on learning woodworking skills without a CNC. A CNC is just a tool like a tablesaw or planer. You should know all the nomenclature of a cabinet, 5-piece door, drawer box, table, etc. and how to make these with basic tools before you tackle a CNC to do the cutting for you. If not, it is like putting the cart before the horse.

Or am I totally off base here? :)

[waterwheelman]

I have been using my ShopBot for about 8 years now. I purchased it used for a specific project that I had at the time, that my more traditional woodworking tools could not do as quickly or as precisely as a CNC could. At the time I had considerable years of custom woodworking and in using and programming computers, but it still took almost a year to become comfortable in using the ShopBot. Now I use it for a wide variety of projects in my business.
I believe that a CNC is just another tool in a woodworkers stable of machines to get the job done. Without the hands-on woodworking experience a CNC will be an expensive tool that gets little use.
I hope this doesn't discourage you from doing your wood working projects. Working with ones hands, designing and creating a project can be a very rewarding experience that a lot of people don't get in this age of instant gratification.

PS :) I like your forum name "God's Girl"

Favorite bumper sticker, "My Boss is a Jewish Carpenter"

[widgetworks_unlimited]

You can download a trial version of both partworks and aspire (design software) from Vectric.com for free to test them out - won't make parts on a machine, but will give you experience to know what the design process is like.

Forget about vacuum clamping for at least the first 6 months. I'd forget about the indexer for 6 months as well, unless you have a specific project for it already lined up.

Setup a dropbox account (dropbox.com) to transfer files between design computer and cutting computer. This will also backup files automatically - VERY important if your files = your living.

I'll also through in a shameless plug... We make a CNC Plotter Pen bit, which you can buy from ShopBot or through our website: WidgetWorksUnlimited.com We have lots of customers including high school and college programs using these to teach CNC to new students. They let you draw your cut file, so you can see it in real life without cutting up expensive material or breaking expensive bits.

When you're ready to cut your first parts, you should experiment with pink or blue insulation foam before cutting good material. You can buy it from home depot / lowes...

[lrheimpel]

I just went through the initial learning curve (it never ends does it?) of using a Shopbot (got my buddy BT48 a month and a half ago).

Unless you have a lot of previous experience and do your homework 100% on this, it is best to go slow. The first "accesory" is some experience under your belt. You can't just scan a drawing and expect it to look good once carved. In most cases you will modify the drawing somewhat. It takes time to learn how what you do in computer will look like physically. Or how to create desired "looks" from a given drawing. The machine will only do what the cut file says, so software is more than 50% of the effort going in. Learn how to use it. Learn how to import or export files in the formats you will use.

Preview everything on the computer first. You will detect many mistakes that way. But don't rely on it 100%, sometimes the screen does not show some results well.

Start with material you can clamp to the table. Or clamp a spoil board and screw material to the board. How you hold something seems to depend on what it is you want to do with it and what the item is.

Start cutting geometrical simple shapes to get a handle on how machine works and specially how it moves. Be specially aware of how high the bit is when moving (safe z), ramping and going to zero. You can easily and probably will (I did..) hit clamps, break bits and make undesired holes in your material or worse the spoilboard. Zeroing the x,y coordinates in the same place is very usefull so you need to work out how to do it. If you need to machine material on both sides, you also need to figure out how to turn over the material so it is in EXACTLY the same position. Get accustomed to zero z after every bit or material change (you will forget and then watch the machine carve much deeper into the material than it was supposed to).

The starter bit package is more than enough. You can do as I did and use some of my old router bits.

You will need to measure digitally with accuracy (thickness to start with) so a decent caliper on hand is good to have.

Practice, practice, practice. That and time will tell you what else you will need.

[steelhead]

Amen to that!

[jerry_stanek]

One of the best tools is a camp shopbot attend one if you can or ask for someone in your area to see one running. See if you can watch the whole process from design to finish. You could also take a shopbot course see if you could schedule a tour of shopbot down it Durham. The shopbot crew down there are the best.

[bcondon]

Jerry,

simple and probably dumb question...

DO you have a supplier of 1/8" collets and if I am not mistaken,
isn't there a series (like E25)... I read it somewhere but not listed with the
spindle.... I have the single phase, spindle which comes with the Alpha

Many thanks

Bob Condon

[jerry_stanek]

I get mine from Production Tools they have a store not to far from me but you can buy online also. I have the ER 25 system on my spindle.

[chiloquinruss]

I needed an 1/8th er25 collet and noticed that MicroMark had a whole set pretty cheap ($75) so I ordered a set. You get 15 assorted collets, that's $5 per collet! And guess what they match excatly what I had been using. Here's the link:

http://www.micromark.com/SearchResult.aspx?deptIdFilter=0&searchPhrase=er25

I now have a complete set and they seem to work OK for me. Russ

[bcondon]

It probably does not matter because I will only be using the collets only and
not the spindle... but which set did you order

Thanks
Bob Condon

[God's Girl]

Thank you all like crazy! I do have a little woodworking experience and am reading as much as I can. I know I'll make a pile of mistakes -can't tell you how much fabric I've tossed over the years of designing dresses, etc. It's all frustrating and rewarding! I just love a creative challenge! I took a deep breath and ordered my bot the other day:PRS alpha 96 -60, 4HP, spindle, basic bits (it comes with 0!), Aspire 3, Cabinet Pro, and the 6" indexer (posted a question this a.m. "Does the 6" indexer carve a 9 inch diameter or a 9 inch radius?" Was getting mixed messages from SB). Now the temp dropped 15 and my radiant tubing is sitting out there tied to its mesh waiting for the temp to raise above freezing so we can pour the concrete! Life can be a challenge - but what a blessing!
Have quite a bit of wood -but like the styr. board idea
getting a better computer for designing-my good one passed out
Going to Durham in Feb.
keep looking for camp ShopBots, but....
Internet is "supposed" to be available 17 Dec.....
zeroing is going to be one of my first "get it down 100%."
have old fashioned calipers - will pick up some digital ones
never heard of a "dropbox account." I'll have to look that up.
hoping to use the computer pen I already own, but will keep yours in mind.
Thank you thank you thank you....

my favorite bumper sticker was on the back of a well-used truck driven by a clean cut, young, working man: (something like:) "Don't accept Jesus, OK, Go to hell." And another from LaRue Tactical: "Extremely Rightwing."

[jerry_stanek]

Do you have a laptop? If you do you could go to a Mcdonalds or any wifi place and download a copy of Vcarve Pro and Aspire. You will be able to create files and practice your CAM skills with them and save the files so you can try cutting them as soon as you machine is set up.

[ssflyer]

Just a quick note - I prefer dial calipers - no batteries, and good ones are more accurate than cheap digital models...

Ron

PS. You went all out on your order! You should be set for a long time! :D

[kevin]

Get a vacum from shopbot or used

You.ll have a hard time with sheets
Theres posts with feins

This is not advise I.d be lost with out my vacum

[harryball]

I read several posts and I'm sure all the typical and dream options have been mentioned. :)

On the unspectacular side... antistatic comfort floor mats, a 2" hose extra dust port or shop vac dedicated to the bot and handy for use, a small flashlight has come in handy on occasion, a notepad and pencil (you'll be making notes as things cut wrong so you can go fix them), a cheap digital camera with bluetooth so you can quickly take photos and impress us online, plenty of masking tape (come is great sealing small vac leaks among other things.

Keep us posted!

/RB

[waterwheelman]

Without a vacuum hold down system you will have to clamp or screw parts in place on the ShopBot table. Then you will have to spend extra time in designing your cut files, in order to avoid those clamps or screws. The first time you hit one with the bit you'll be thinking it would be a LOT easier if I had a Vacuum system.

For several years I used a single Fein, and it worked OK. This last year I upgraded to a four zone vacuum system using two of the Central vac motors from Lighthouse Industries. The new system works much better.

Lots of luck with your new tool.