Indexer Temp

[kubotaman]

Does anyone know what their indexer motor runs as far as temperature? I read mine by way of a hand held temp lazer and I got 244 degrees! I know that it wasn't under strain of any kind since I was only cutting .125 per pass so that couldn't have been the trouble. It ran for about 4 hours but I don't believe that is the problem. I have the 12" axis indexer so maybe that is the difference. It can't last at that temperature. It was so hot that I applied some spit( poor mans temp gauge ) and it sizzled away!! This unit is only about 6 months old. Any help other than a phone call, which of course I will do.

[jdervin]

For what it's worth, I run a 6" PRS Standard indexer and have always noticed that it is warmer than the X/Y/Z motors (enough to make me wonder), but is only warm to the touch and can be held without burning.

Definitely worth the phone call or as I understand it, SB checks email support requests 24/7 and will reply as soon as possible.

[richards]

A stepper motor is designed to run hot, but not that hot. Oriental Motor rates their motors for an 80-degree C rise over ambient with 100-degrees C being the maximum. 244-F is 117-C.

Two things contribute to temperature: Voltage and Current. The higher the voltage, the hotter the motor. The higher the current draw, the hotter the motor.

You might check the indexer with the motor detached to make sure that it turns freely. Also, check the voltage going to the motor. You'll have to ask Shopbot for that value. For non-alpha motors you can use this formula as a guide:

32 * SQRT(Inductance) = maximum voltage

I usually take the computed maximum voltage and reduce it by 15% to 25%. (If you're using Geckodrive stepper drivers, the maximum allowed voltage is 80VDC.) Voltage mostly affects speed and current mostly affects torque. In a CNC application, we rarely need speeds over 700 RPM. Using maximum voltage allows speeds up to 3,000 RPM - depending on the motor (and a very light load).

In my tests, keeping the load low enough so that the motor's maximum current draw is not exceeded and using 85% of the computed maximum voltage will let that motor run at 70-C or lower (about 160-F).

Remember that on a 12-inch indexer, the weight of the wood can require the motor to work extra hard, even if the cut is light.

[dana_swift]

You can check the voltage on one of your X, Y, or Z axes when static, moving slowly, and slewing. Then compare to either A or B whichever you have the indexer on. It should be reasonably similar. If the voltage is double, the power is 4x that, and vice-versa.

D

[kubotaman]

The turnings I was cutting were only 31.5 inches long by 3 inches in diameter so way short of my 12 inch capability. There were only twenty pieces so I guess it may have something to do with the voltage being supplied to it. Where would a person measure the voltage being supplied? From the wires end or in the supply box itself?

[richards]

What kind of stepper driver do you have? Is it a Geckodrive, an Oriental Motor stepper driver, or something else?

You can measure the voltage to a Geckodriver G201, G202, or G203 by measuring the voltage at terminals 1 and 2 on the driver.

The Alpha type stepper drivers from Oriental Motor operate from 120VAC and contain their own internal power supply to provide the proper DC voltage for the motors. The motor and driver should be matched as they are shipped from the factory. However, they have some pots that can be adjusted to determine the amount of current that the motor is allowed to draw and the driver's response time. If you have an Oriental Motor Alpha stepper driver, just telephone Shopbot to verify the correct pot positions for your stepper driver.

[kubotaman]

Mike thanks for the response. I really don't know what I am talking about so here are my specs on my machine. I have an Alpha PRS. The motor in question is an Oriental with the following specs printed on it. The model is an ASM911AA with DC-2.65 and 2.1A printed on it. The driver is a Model ASD30E-A-B1 with the settings of --current=D and V.Fil-6 for the small swithes on it. Both are the brand of Vexta. Does any of this help in my quest for a solution? Of course I will call ShopBot tomorrow. Thanks!!

[richards]

I just downloaded the manual (HM-40023-2E.pdf) that Oriental Motor has on its website for the ASM911AA motor and the ASD30E driver . Unfortunately, that documentation describes a driver/controller that connects directly to a computer via an RS232 port, instead of the motor driver that you have. Also, their documentation does not show the current limiting pot that both you and I referred to.

After you've talked to Shopbot, please post the solution so that others will know what caused the excessive heat and the solution.

[kubotaman]

When I find out something I will post what I am told.

[marthab]

"Gentleman,


As has been previously been stated, you should contact ShopBot directly for any questions specific to their products. Having said that, I would like to apologize for you not being able to find the information that you were looking for regarding the ASM911AA motor on our website. We have completed an update to the site that should now include all relevant manuals for that motor. More specifically, you would want to see manual #: HM-6259-17 to find the information that you are looking for.


You can find that manual by visiting www.orientalmotor.com (http://www.orientalmotor.com/), hovering over the "Support" tab and clicking on "Operator's Manuals" At this point you can enter either the manual number "HM-6259-17" or the your part # "asm911aa" in to the appropriate field to retrieve the manual.


I hope that this helps!


Thank you.


Oriental Motor Technical Support"

[richards]

It looks like Oriental Motor's support section might have a glitch. I tried entering the manual number (HM-6259-17), and the search engine couldn't find that manual.

When I used the part number ASM911AA, the search engine recommended the HM-40016-3, the HM-40023-2, the HM-6159-17, and the HM-6205-6 manuals.

[ken_rychlik]

I don't understand the use of the 911 (non geared) for the indexer.

I thought at least a 10 to 1 gearbox was used for that purpose.

[richards]

The ASM911AA motor is usually pulsed 1,000 times per revolution, or 2.777 steps per degree. On a 12-inch indexer, if you were cutting something that really was 12-inches in diameter, or 37.699 inches in circumference, each of those 1,000 steps would turn the piece about 0.038 inches, which is about 1/26th of an inch.

A good 10:1 gearbox (one without measurable backlash), would turn the piece about 0.0038 inches, which is about 1/263rd of an inch.

The "ideal", for me, has always been 0.001 inches or 1/1000th of an inch. To get that, you would need a gearbox with about a 1:36 ratio.

With that ratio, it would take more than one second to rotate the piece one time (assuming a maximum pulse rate of about 30,000 pulses per second).

A Geckodrive system would have 2X better resolution because it requires 2,000 steps per revolution. That also means that it would turn at 1/2 the speed of the Alpha - if everything else were equal.

[kubotaman]

It is good to realize there is a lot of good help in this forum. I do have to say that a lot of this recent info being talked about is really more than I understand. I can say that I was told by Shopbot, if I can correctly remember, that my indexer motor has a 25:1 gearbox attached. It is obvious that there is a gearbox box and I think I am correct about the ratio. I have turned 10X48 log with no problem. I just did a test with the same file that got me concerned about the temp. No cutting was involved, only the indexer turned. The indexer started out at room temp, 65 degrees and 6 minutes later, time for one cutting, it read 118 degrees. At the end of the second turning it read 151 degrees. I also have to let everyone know that I have called ShopBot and Ryan, the tech, has returned all phone calls and of course I wasn't here. There is absolutely no fault on Shopbot, so I hope no one thinks there is. I am contacting Ryan tomorrow and I am sure he will request me to turn down the voltage which I have once already. Will let you know what I find out. :o

PS- going back over the info given by Richards I am starting to understand how these drives work. Having no one to ask questions, sometimes makes it difficult. Thanks!

[ken_rychlik]

Daryl

I thought most of the indexers used motors with built in gearboxes. Considering yours is a direct drive motor with an external gearbox there are options for you try.

Disconnect the motor from the gearbox and see if it still gets hot.

Make sure the gear box is ok, (can you turn it by hand?)

You can swap drives with one of your others, considering it is the same part number.

You could also swap motors, (again if the part numbers are the same) and see if the problem remains the same or goes to a different area.

If you don't have 911 motors anywhere else on your bot, then you won't be able to do (swap testing)

If you do have some to swap, make sure all power is off before digging in.

[kubotaman]

Kenneth, thanks for the help but all of your suggestions will not work. All of my drivers are different than the one on the indexer. The indexer has a different motor than all the other steppers on my machine, so that won't work by changing them. The indexer turns okay so there doesn't seem to be any binding in the gearcase. I was also told by Shopbot never to disengage the motor from the gearbox. They are apprentely made as a unit and splitting the two would cause problems with the magnetics with the stepper. You have to realize I don't think it is a defective part it is just too much voltage being put to it. Being as expensive as this cost me I won't fool with it. I should and will try to post a picture tomorrow what this unit looks like. I am sure most fellas haven't seen one. I hadn't before buying it. Thank you for the suggestions! All is of a help.

[ken_rychlik]

From the Vexta operation manual the current settings are as follows.

F=100 percent current
E=94
D=88
C=81
B=75
A=69
9=63

And it goes down hill from there.

The lowest setting that maintains the power needed will give the least amount of heat at the motor.

[kubotaman]

Thank you Kenneth for the information. I will look tomorrow as to what my settings are. I am sure that will help! Thanks again!!

[richards]

It never hurts to check everything one more time.

1. Check the voltage going into the Oriental Motor stepper driver to verify that it is 120VAC and not 240VAC.

2. Check the movement of the indexer to verify that everything turns freely by hand.

3. Check the settings on the stepper driver to verify that both 'pots' are at the proper setting.

4. Check that nothing is blocking the air flow on and around the stepper motor.

5. Check the temperature of the stepper driver to verify that it is not overly hot.

Sometimes changing one thing can cause 'gremlins' to appear. When I installed a 3hp spindle onto my PRT-Alpha, I also added a wireless network card to my computer. The Shopbot started to randomly make uncontrolled moves. I assumed that somehow noise from the Colombo spindle was causing the problems, so I added over $750 in noise suppression devices. The problem continued. Finally, late one night I just happened to be watching the computer's monitor when the network connection flashed red. At the same time, I heard the Shopbot make an unprogrammed move. The problem was the wireless network card. It was loosing communications with the network, so the computer ignored the Shopbot commands in order to reestablish the network connection. (Multi-tasking operating systems can cause that kind of grief. They're not really designed to send a constant pulse rate to four stepper motors.) I removed the wireless card, inserted a standard network card and the problem was solved. In my excitement to have a spindle, I had totally forgotten about adding the wireless card.

[kubotaman]

I talked to ShopBot and they recommended turning down the voltage by way of the driver until the temperature is reasonably in the 180 degree range. I am going to do that and see what happens. They were more than helpful. I hope my pictures turn out so you can see the gearbox on the 12" indexer head. It is located in the black tube on the right of the indexer. Hope this explains some of te questions why they use a stepper without a gearbox.

11218

11219

[NickJ]

It looks like Oriental Motor's support section might have a glitch. I tried entering the manual number (HM-6259-17), and the search engine couldn't find that manual.

When I used the part number ASM911AA, the search engine recommended the HM-40016-3, the HM-40023-2, the HM-6159-17, and the HM-6205-6 manuals.

Oops. there is a typo in my response. The manual number should be HM-6159-17, not HM-6259-17

Oriental Motor Technical Support

[NickJ]

Hello, everyone.

My name is Nick and I am an Engineer with Oriental Motor (OM). I will try to explain what may be happening with the motor and driver combination.

-The ASM911AA motor is used with a driver from Oriental Motor, not the Gecko driver. Because of this, many of the suggestions (i.e. testing/changing voltage to the motor, etc). are not possible because they are fixed by OM.

-The driver that is used by ShopBot is a modified version supplied exclusively to them by OM.

-The windings in the motor use windings with a temperature UL rating of Class B, which is 100°C (212°F) max. There is typically a 10°C temperature difference form the windings on the inside of the motor to the motor case. This means that the maximum motor case temperature should not exceed 90°C (194°F). Any temperature under this value would be deemed OK, as far as motor life is concerned.

So, what does this mean to you? As long as the motor case temperature is not exceeding 194°F, and the motor is making the moves as desired, the motor is fine.

However, if the high motor case temperature poses any safety issues or is otherwise undesirable, we need to look into the issue further.

The conditions under which the motor is tested for life under are these:
-Ambient temperature: 20°C
-Motor is suspended in free air (not mounted to anything = no heat sink)
-Operated at rated current at ~500 rpm until the temperature rise saturates. This saturation temperature should not exceed the winding rating. In this case, 90°C on the motor case.

In the "real/normal" world, stepping motors are typically run at a "rule of thumb" 50% current duty cycle. The duty cycle is defined by the ratio of the amount of time the motor has rated current applied to it's windings (referred to as RUN current) vs. the motor windings having approximately 50% of the rated current (referred to as STOP current) applied to them.

On a standard driver from OM, the STOP current is set to 50% of rated value at the factory. In the case of the modified driver for ShopBot, the STOP current value has been increased (there are other differences, too). This means that the motor current duty cycle will easily exceed 50%.

Now, the 50% current duty cycle is only a rule of thumb. This value is affected by the mounting method, air flow, etc.

Too much information yet?

I suspect that your high motor temperature is caused by running the motor for an extended period of time, greater than 4 or 5 minutes at a time, with a pretty short rest period, less than 1 or 2 minutes, in between running the motor again. Am I correct?

Purely from a motor point of view not taking into consideration other factors unique to the ShopBot system, in order to reduce the motor temperature you can:
-Lower the RUN current value using the "CURRENT" potentiometer on the driver. Lowering the current reduces the torque available from the motor. At some point the results of your motion will become unacceptable and the motor may even stall. The point of acceptable vs. unacceptable can only be determine by you for your application.
-Allow more time in between operations.
-Use a fan to cool the motor

I hope that this is of some help to you!

As always, any advice or suggestions provided by ShopBot should trump anything provided by myself or anyone from OM.

[Gary Campbell]

Daryl, others...

Nick does an excellent job of explaining the OM specs and its application and modification for the Indexer. Since he did not over emphasize the importance of duty cycle, I will reiterate.

Daryl's apparent high temps may or may not be a result of motor usage beyong the duty cycle rating, but when I read a line such as " It ran for about 4 hours but I don't believe that is the problem. " It makes me wonder.

From Nick's explanation, it appears the the duty cycle for a stepper is not as simple as that for an air compressor or welder, but is just as important to follow. In my examples above, a 50% duty cycle is simple. In a given time span, they must be off and allowed to cool for the same amount of time they are on.

So when Daryl says " There were only twenty pieces so I guess it may have something to do with the voltage being supplied to it. " I would recommend that he do a few, lay his hand on the stepper, and possibly allow it to cool before doing another set of 3 or 4.

Remember, the operator is the only intelligent part of the CNC chain. Maintenence and operating the equipment within the specs are the sole responsibility of that operator. I "have a friend" that burned down both examples above. :) Neither were replaced under warrantee as the duty cycle was obviously exceeded.

[kubotaman]

Nick, thank you for your professional response even though it is mostly over my head. Your end suggestion is basically what Shopbot has told me. I will lower the voltage to an acceptable temp and run my indexer and see what the difference is. I have never been told to let it cool if I run it for any length of time. Is this a requirement for the other indexer Shopbot sells? Why doesn't my other steppers over heat as well? I have run them for a day and no heat problems have ever occured. Is this a problem with this combination of driver and motor? Thank you.

[NickJ]

Daryl,

The same rules apply to all stepping motors systems, regardless of manufacturer or combinations of manufacturers.

As for the other axes on your tool, I would need to know what their running and/or current duty cycle is before I could comment.

There other more esoteric ways to help cool the motor, that are related to the speed of the motor. But, I so not know enough about how the ShopBot controllers work to get into this.

At this point, I would keep in touch with ShopBot, I am positive that they can and will take care of you.

Nick

[kubotaman]

Nick, thanks for the reply. I do know what a 50 percent duty cycle means as I own numerous machines and quite a few welders. The duty cycle applies to all of my equipment. The problem is I have not seen any information as to duty cycle in regards to the indexer from anyone other than yourself. It does explain a lot and I am sure most guy's don't realize that it would pertain to their indexers. In all, this discussion may have cleared up some questions that other people had. I will turn down the voltage and run a few tests to see what the reaction is. I will post some results when I get them. Thank you for the information.

[myxpykalix]

I "think" I understand the meaning of "duty cycle", meaning how long this part can run safely for its intended purpose. However what i'm confused about is that does this duty cycle mean its rated to run at its highest capacity for that duty cycle period like spinning at high speed or just clicking one degree at a time during a carving.

[steve_g]

Duty cycle in reference to steppers is also confusing to me, as a stepper at “rest” is holding its position with all its “might”

Steve

[richards]

Many stepper drivers, including the Oriental Motor stepper drivers and the Geckodrive stepper drivers, have a current reduction feature that drops the current to 50% or less when the stepper driver is idle. The current reduction feature keeps the motors from pulling excessive current and building up excessive heat.

The Gecko G202 stepper drivers have a jumper that can be set to disable the current reduction feature, but the newer G203v and the G201x do not have that jumper - they automatically reduce current when the motor is idle. The jumper on the G202 could be set to NOT reduce current if the motor pulled less than 2 Amps.

Two things contribute to high temperatures when the motor is running: Speed and Load. (For a good understanding of how higher speeds create greater heat, go to www.geckodrive.com (http://www.geckodrive.com) and download the stepper motor basics paper. The paper was written years ago, so some of the information is dated, but it is a good primer on how stepper motors work.)

On my test bench, I've conducted experiments on stepper motors and stepper drivers for several years. At one time, I was running a test to see how much current a stepper motor actually used. I was really surprised to see how little current a motor pulls when it is lightly loaded and moving at relatively slow speeds. As the speed went up or as the load on the motor was increased, the Amp meter shot up.

When I was first learning about electronics, I had a hard time understanding the difference between voltage and current until someone simply asked me, "How long does it take to fill a bucket with water?". I told him that it depended on the water pressure and the size of the hose. He said, "Exactly. Voltage is the 'water pressure' and the 'size of the hose' is the amount of current. The higher the voltage, the higher the amount of electrical current that can be forced through a wire. The lower the voltage, the greater the need for a larger wire (hose) to carry the same amount of current." Then I understood.

When you look at the ratings of stepper motors, you'll find an inductance rating and a current rating. A motor might be rated at 1.5mH inductance and have a current rating of 4.5 Amps. Another motor might be rated at 3.5 mH and have a current rating of 3 Amps. Using a formula that Geckodrive publishes to help us compute the maximum voltage to use with a particular motor, 32 X SQRT( Inductance) shows that the 1.5mH motor can use a power supply of up to 39 volts and that the 3.5mH motor can use a power supply of up to 60 volts. The interesting thing is that 39V X 4.5A = 175 Watts and 60V X 3A = 180 Watts. Both motors will produce the same amount of heat when used with a power supply sized to match their inductance. In that particular case, both motors will run at about 80C when used at their maximum usable speed and a light load OR at a lower speed but with a heavier load. Both motors produce the same amount of torque at lower speeds. The motor with the lower inductance will be able to maintain higher torque at higher speeds but the motor with the higher inductance will run smoother at lower speeds.

The stepper motor used with an indexer that has a 10:1 gearbox might be running at high speed, even though the wood being cut is moving relatively slowly. That high speed, combined with even a light cut, causes the temperature to rise (refer to the Geckodrive 'Stepper Motor Basics' paper).

[NickJ]

Mr. Richards just described what I was referring to when I said "more esoteric ways" to reduce heat related to speed.

I hesitated to go into detail because I do not want to suggest that someone alter their cutting speeds to cool the motor at the risk of possible reducing the quality of the cutting. It is the quality and price performance of these tools that made you buy them in the first place!

[curtiss]

Do the two x motors have to have the same exact voltage ??

I would assume they do or one would be trying to move faster than the other.

or is a slight difference of a few tenths of a volt not a problem ?

Does the higher voltage provide a faster motor or just more power ?

[ken_rychlik]

Voltage is just potential.

Current moves things.

Although current is related to voltage (ohms law), a slight difference like that should not be an issue.

It depends on how good your meter and especially your meter connections are as to how acurate your readings are.

[richards]

On a Shopbot, both X-axis motors are driven by the same signals, so they should be run from the same power supply. If the conductors between the motors and the stepper drivers are large enough (at least 20-gauge for the long runs on a CNC machine), the voltage should be as close as would be practical.

I've experimented with 24-gauge, 22-gauge, 20-gauge, 18-gauge and 16-gauge wiring. Twenty-four was too small, 22 worked, so I went to 20-gauge "just to be sure". There's nothing wrong with using 18-gauge or 16-gauge, but as the wire size increases, it gets harder to find affordable fine-stranded wire that can take the constant bending required of a CNC machine.

The size of the wire is determined by the electrical load that the wire is supposed to carry. The greater the load, the larger the wire has to be.

Be sure to set the pots identical on both X-axis motors, or use the same value resistor if you have Geckodrive stepper drivers.

[gene]

It seems to me in a lathe or indexer application that the event of a piece being turning for an extended period is going to be very high ? how would a motor with a higher duty cycle effect the price ? Maybe i'm missing something:confused:

[kubotaman]

Well I did some experiments today and these are the results. My Driver for my 12" indexer was originally set on "D". The results are as follows. All of the turnings are of the same exact file and the time of turning time is at 6 minutes. There was no "Cool" down time between turnings.

"B" setting-first turning-114 degrees--second turning-141 degrees-third turning-169 degrees

"9" setting-first turning-100 degrees-second turning-126 degrees-third turning-149 degrees

In my original statement I stated I turned over a period of 4 hours. Realize that I did 20 turnings total but they only took 6 minutes apiece so there was plenty of cooling time between each turning. At that time my indexer got to 244! I certainly didn't tax my indexer as may be believed. This small and simple experiment may lead me to believe that some fellas may be overheating there indexer beyond there limit and not realizing it. I don't know if my present setting will give me my needed "power" to do my turnings if needed for larger stock. Any opinions?

[Gary Campbell]

Daryl....
When running these files, are you using a 3D type file where the movement axis is primarily one of the linear axes, or is the rotary axis doing most of the motion?

The reason I ask is that we all have similar motors with similar duty cycles, and there doesnt seem to be a lot of info on this in the documentation. I was wondering whether the extra reduction in this particular motor is what generates the heat or long term use.

If I understand Nick's explanation correctly, 3D type use, i.e. small rotational advance from the rotary axis, then a longitudanal linear cutting action, would be well within the duty cycle specs. If the primary motion was on the rotating axis, then a longer rest cycle might be required.

From the temps you post above, it looks like you are going in the right direction.

[kubotaman]

Gary, to hopefuuly answer your question. The rotary axis is doing all the cutting. All I am doing is cutting along the X axis, depth of .125 at a time, and making a cylinder 31.5 inches long by 3" diameter. All the cornors have been 45'd and it takes three passes. The first two passes move at .5 inches per rotation and the third moves .25 per rotation. A basic very simple rounding file. It could be very well possible the fact of the gearbox for the 12" indexer has 25:1 gearbox and the 6" indexer has a 10:1 gearbox. In other words it takes less rotation, bout .5:1 to make the same amount of turns for the 6" indexer as it does the 12". More turns, if I am correct, would create more heat. If I still have the power to do large turnings then that is all I am after, as long as it has the necessay power to start and of course stop a heavy piece of material.

[richards]

Add a cooling fan and a heatsink. You would be amazed at the difference mounting the motor to a 10" X 10" X 0.25" piece of aluminum heatsink makes, especially if you're constantly blowing air on that piece of aluminum.

If it's impossible to mount that kind of heatsink, then see if you can mount some CPU heatsinks to the top and sides of the stepper motor. If you go that route you can use the fans that come with those CPU heat sinks or you can mount larger fans so that they blow on a fanless heatsink.

Be careful though, without a fan, metal, even aluminum, can trap the heat in the motor instead of transferring the heat away from the motor.

[kubotaman]

Mike, I had thought of using either heat sinks or small fans. On the Oriental Motor web site they have fans that I am sure would help. Only thing is I don't know where I would get the power. I would really like to get the power from the indexer power supply and have it run when the indexer does. Do you have any suggestions as to how I could do it?

[myxpykalix]

Daryl,
I don't think i would mess with the power supply for the indexer for the fan motor. I don't know about your setup but I have a router that is controlled by an internal power line from my control box so that when i start a file it turns on power to the extension cord i have wired in the box.

If you have anything like this then i would tap off that from the box and power to that is on while your router is on and run your fan that way. By doing that it goes off and on when you start router.

The only problem is it will run when your router runs even if you are not using your indexer unless you have a on/off switch at the fan.

I would use whatever type of cooling the mfg recommends but you could also look at something like this:
http://www.xoxide.com/evercool-monster-cpucooler.html

[richards]

I would buy some 12VDC box type fans or use CPU cooling fans that run on 12VDC, then I would add a small wall-wart type of power supply (the kind that has the transformer as part of the plug). The wall transformer will cost about $15. For safety, put a switch between the transformer and the fans.

You can buy 120VAC box fans. They usually cost a lot more, but the ones that I have are designed for continuous use. If you get that type of fan, you can just connect them through an On/Off switch directly to a wall plug without needing a transformer.

[ken_rychlik]

If you have any extra output lines open, you can control it with a relay and have the file turn a relay on and off to switch the fan.

It would be the same as having your dust collector or anything else that uses the SO command. For instance SO,8,1 will turn on output 8 and SO,8,0 will turn it back off. You can type that in at the bot and watch the 8 light work on the console.

You could modify your post processor that you use for indexer files to turn on and off an ouput, and you would need either a relay board from shopbot, or one of the home made versions.

[kubotaman]

Mike and everyone else thanks for the suggestions for cooling fans. Mike what type of "boxfans" are you talking about that run on 120 volt? Only ones I am aware of are the type that are really large. For the 12 volt size that would be a simple way to go since I have a extra plug that is quite near where the indexer is. The only drawback is I would have to physically turn it on versus automatically coming on by way of relay.

Edit: Mike I didn't realize at the time I replied that the small fans for computers and cooling were called "Boxfans". I thought they were called something else. I am looking into it and have some ideas that may help me. Thanks!!

[myxpykalix]

I know the temptation is to want it to start with the file starting but if you have a plug close you could get one of those small round tabletop fans and place it there.

You just have to add "turn on fan" to your mental checklist countdown when starting files. Thats what i do when starting a file:

5 is X,Y,Z zero'ed
4 is correct tool in place and tight
3 is material clamped down
2 turn on dust collector (AND FAN)
1 call up toolpath
BLASTOFF!

[steve_g]

http://www.mpja.com/departments.asp?dept=46

no end of fan choices

Steve

[ken_rychlik]

When the machine takes care of itself and turns things on and off when needed it sure is nice. :cool:

[myxpykalix]

Gee kenneth the next thing you will want is some type of auto tool changer or a remote app to move the carriage.....hmmm....wait...we already have that!:D

[kubotaman]

Okay, I did a simple experiment today to see what a small amount of air being past over my indexer motor would do. I used my wife's hair dryer for the air source. I put it on cool, no heat introduced, and held it to pass air over the indexer. I ran my same file 5 times and it seems that the indexer is heat soaked at 132 degrees! That is a little over 30 degrees less than without the air introduced. I am planning to purchase a small boxfan, most likely 120 volt, and mount it to pass it's air over the indexer. Hope all of this helps someone, it did me. Thanks for the help!!!