Pocket Screw holes

[bill_lumley]

Has anyone got a strategy for making a hole that takes a pocket screw nicely . I am thinking I have to use a hole of 50% depth of sufficient diameter to get the screw angle correct . I use a 1/4" compression bit for all my cutting so want to find a strategy that works with it .
Any ideas appreciated . Thanks Bill

[tmerrill]

Bill,

Partworks/V-Carve Pro and Aspire have a fluting tool that will work. I am not sure what software you are using.

To create a pocket, first create a line the length you want the pocket. The start node of the line must be at the start point of the pocket path. Set your Cut Depth to the depth you want at the deep end and set up the Fluting tool for the shape you want.

Tim

[bill_lumley]

Thanks Tim, I should have said these are all cabinet parts and I use the E-cabinets Link exclusivey for these parts .

Bill

[tmerrill]

Sorry, I should have looked at the Topic heading.

Perhaps it will help someone.

[Gary Campbell]

Bill...
You can use a couple different methods. One is to place, and constrain if you wish, a PE geometry that is the size and depth of the pocket that you want.

The other is to make a custom rafix pattern in the hardware editor. You then can use that pattern to apply screw pockets following rafix parameters. Thats the good news. Bad news, if it applies to you, is that this method cannot be used in conjuction with any joinery method other than a butt joint. The same strategy can be used for pilot holes. Bad news again is that it will not work with any of the dado joinery.

Here is a screen shot made to show how it works:

[bill_lumley]

Hi Gary, I lean towards a Rafix style strategy so that I an easily apply this to any part at a set spacing without doing a PE hole every time . The use of a butt joint with these is no issue foe me . I am just trying to eliminate one more step on the bench . My 2 prime applications are for fasting a solid back to the deck on an upper to eliminate visible fastenrs on the underside of uppers and secondly to apply finished ends to uppers and bases without having to use biscuits ... again to eliminate steps on the bench .

I will experiment in a few weeks when I am back in the shop . I just think I am foreced to using a slot or a hole of a fixed depth as I can not get the ramped in hole with the Link to mimimick what a pocket hole jig gives.

Bill

[Gary Campbell]

Bill...

Then there is no bad news for you. For your use, you may want to consider one of the Rafix type fasteners. I know we traditional woodworkers frown on RTA style "stuff" as it has been associated with ready to assemble MDF with a picture of wood printed on contact paper as a veneer. Remember that many non CNC owners think the same of CNC cut parts.

I used to worry about the flat bottom pocket, but I got over it. One you use the flat version you will find that they work really well.

I agree about using the parametric abilities built in the the Rafix joinery. The PE cuts will be "clunky" at best, and much worse if resizing is redone without proper restraints applied. Good luck and keep us informed!

[bill_lumley]

Hi Gary , I have been meaning to ask about that 'web' style top you use on base cabinets shown in your picture . I use a pair of 6" wide stretchers . What advantages does the single piece give you?

I also have thought of doing pilot holes with the bot but I avoid anything requiring a flip op :) This is also why I do not use the Rafix where you suggest becuase it would force operations on two sides of the deck of an upper where I use a blind dado joint already to attach the deck to the sides .

Bill

[Gary Campbell]

Bill...
I use them because they keep the box very square and rigid. Also gives me extra strength when we use glue only on the joint. They dont take much longer to cut in the nest. Assembly is faster. But mostly cuz I am old fashioned and I like them.

I dont see why pilot holes would require a flipop. If they are a thru hole, they will cut from either side. I agree on the wall cab deck needing a flipop. I do a lot of them (flips) Once you get a good jig and offsets setup its a no brainer. Just finished cutting a 52 sheet job with over 25 FlipOps.

Once I get my "Sheet Lifter" online I will start using the FlipOps First feature. I HAVE to get the track up as I may have a couple hundred sheets of melamine to cut.

[kerry_fullington]

Gary,

You will like the Flip Ops first option. One of the best ideas they have had. It allows me to build the boxes the way I want without sweating over every flip. I cut my first job on CNC last weekend which was 35 sheets and only one sheet didn't have a flip op. Obviously I am not worried about how many sheets I can get cut in a shift.

I am also surprised at how well the pocket hole slots are working out on this job.

[Gary Campbell]

Kerry...
I have used the FlipOps first, and do like them. Liked them enough to add air operated pins to make the operation painless. Over here on the Link side, (vs TWD CN) we have a few features that are not working correct. Off falls are virtually unusable, and PE cuts are being cut climb direction even when conventional is selected.

I have a few more minor bugs on my list that I reported, but, with no updates in 9 months or so, bug fixes seem to be slower than in the "early years". I will be reverting back to a pre-flipopfirst version that cut the PE geometry better.

I am right with you on the pockets. When you need them, they cut and work great.

[kerry_fullington]

Gary,

Why are off-falls unusable?

[Gary Campbell]

Kerry...
There is a reported (multiple users) bug that when cutting off falls the off fall position on the table is not oriented properly. Some have seen parts on the table cut, others have had the head travel outside the table limits, activating the limits.

Personally, I stopped using them long ago, as I feel no need, especially when using a 1/2" collar (hold down integrity) to have my sheets reduced in size just to get a label for reuse. The increase on both cutting time and bit wear, compounded by the fact that they havent always worked that well, are my reasons for not using the feature. Using a double pass system as most of us SB'ers do, adds nearly 40 lin ft of cutting per 1/4 used sheets. They reduce cycle times on my machine from 4+ per hour to 3+/-.

I nest and print labels with off falls on, then renest with them disabled for cutting. My "trim for the rack" is done by a battery saw when the reusable sections come off the table. I take a quick peek at the "proposed" cut and make mine similar. Since no edge trim is done, my "off falls" are always larger than the size in the database.

[bill_lumley]

Hi Gary , I finally got around to getting the pocket holes placed in a job and I am very pleased with them . One more job given to the bot and I didn't even have negotiate with it for a pay raise :)

Regards Bill

[Gary Campbell]

Bill...
Glad that its working well for you. I will invoice you via email!! :D