Woods for exterior signs

[joe]

My favorite exterior sign woods:


Since I live in the Southwestern part of the US, I'm limiting my comments to what I am familiar with. I'm sure there is plenty of other lumber around the country. I ofter wonder what's available in Australia, England and around the planet. For me, the distinguishing factor is longevity and stability. For example White Oak or Poplar, are beautiful woods which don't fare well outdoors. Woods like Osage Orange, or Cypress have the necessary interlocking grain pattern and microbe resistance.


Cedar:
This is an outstanding wood which comes in several varieties. The clearest come from Canada and can be purchased in clear heart, vertical grain which will last for years. Down right beautiful for just about everything exterior and has a natural resistance to decay. In ground post must be treated for decay. There's also Aromatic (Eastern Cedar) which comes from the Juniper tree. This lumber is oily , with a heavenly smell, lots of knots with lots of streaks of white. One of our CNC group, Ken Zey, uses it for exterior furniture and signs. It's readily available in the south and east and is considered a invasive, pest tree. The Western Cedar which is available to us, at the lumber yard comes wet and knotty. I've ignored it for years which was a mistake. It's good for rougher looking signs and will last for years. Moderate weather protection is required. For painting, stain blockers are required.


Redwood:
It's the Grand Dame of the sandblasted sign business. It not only comes in clear vertical grain, it's also very weather resistant. Although it's a little more rare now, there's plenty of it for a price. One of the best outlets is "Reid and Wright Inc." I have redwood signs which are twenty years old and should last another twenty years. A well prepared sign with this material will out last most businesses. But you can't short cut the the preperation work. That's the key.


Cypress:
The outstanding quality of this light colored beautiful wood is it's weather ability. I'm not happy with it as a sign material. The major issue for me has been it's stringy. And will not carry small detail without breaking off. Even with a V bit, attention to small detail is a concern. Still it's one of the most beautiful looking woods for a background


Pine:
I only wish the beautiful north eastern pine was more available to us in the southwest. I have little experience with it but I'm sure it would be one of my favorites. Our most common is Yellow Pine and unfortunately avoided. It's usually wet, knotty, hard to cut, and susceptible to earthbound bugs. Why do I love it? This wood can be purchased with vertical grain at two inch thickness. As it dries it gets hard as steel, so working it wet is good. It can be treated with common antifreeze or Boric Acid to eliminate microbes. Boric comes from Lowe's as a powder under the product name, Hot Shot Roach Killer. It's very safe to handle. Some of you older woodworkers may remember “Twenty Team Borax” The sponsor of Wagon Train. It's the same stuff and used in laundry detergent.


Please post about your favorite wood materials.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[knight_toolworks]

get rid of them wimpy woods ipe purpleheart jatoba. nothing like a sign that feels like it is made from lead :D I am testing both out in my soap dishes.

[joe]

Steve,

Like you, I like exotic woods. What I'm trying to do here is help newbees along with usable and affordable materials for exterior signs. This portion of the forum has fallen silent. In order to keep it active I think we need good usable advice and examples along with some encouragement. That kind of information can be real value.

If you could post some of your latest signs and examples I'm sure they would be appreciated. I noticed on your website there is a referance to 3D carved signs with applied gold and silver.

Happy Routing

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com/)

[knight_toolworks]

your info is far better then mine I was just poking you. I almost never do wooden signs. mostly right now push through lighted signs.
when I vcarve wood it is usually small pieces.

[kevin]

Joe, I have a new wood called Jennifer. I never heard of it until I moved here. Apparently, it only grows here because we are an island. The growing season is very short. The trees are incredibly strong. I found out about this wood because I am doing a kitchen for the local saw mill owner. They use it for decks. The client has been trying to sell it to Rona. He wants a sign done. What I will do is try his wood. I am curious how it is going to machine. The problem with our climate is I guess the same as northern Maine. You have the salt air which acts as very corrisive. When I get some from him, I will post. And apparently the wood is not expensive. Not crazy expensive like cedar and apparently this wood does not rot.

[joe]

Kevin,

Can it be harvested in planks of any size. I've looked at IPE but it's only about 5" wide and 5/8" thick. Even so it's very heavy.

The Rough Cedar from my local lumber yard sells for $2.00 a board foot. Redwood is five times as much. Good old Yellow Pine is a cheap eighty cents per board foot.

Please post any info you come up with.

Joe Crumley
www.normansign.com (http://www.normansign.com)

[chiloquinruss]

I have had mixed results with the local supplier of juniper. It is absolutely beautiful but. . . . It is very unstable once carved. Not in every case but sometimes when I carve it, it releves the inherent stresses in the wood and really goes wild. I once did a sign that was only 12x48 by 2 inch thick. It carved beautifully, but when released from my clamps the end of the sign warped up about 2 inches on each end. I manufactured a back brace of 1 inch angle iron and pulled it almost back to flat. Like I said not all the signs do this. I have not been doing this for as long as some here so my experience on how they weather is limited. I live in the mountains and the winters are harsh. I have many signs that are now approaching 2 years and they all seem to be weathering ok. The good news is if it appears the wood stays stable once carved, it stays stable once hung. Russ

[Gary Campbell]

Joe...
If you find the right supplier.... Here is a slab of Ipe that is 17" wide and just under 10' long. Close to 300#

[knight_toolworks]

I have found wide ipe before too. same with purpleheart.

[joe]

Neither of which are good sign materials.

[joe]

The attached photo was taken to show the flame area found in vertical grain yellow pine. That part of the board will cause trouble by warping. Vertical grain is the key since it's less likely to check and warp. I'm fond of the beautiful grain even though it's a heavy, hard wood. If you're just starting out, I'd limit the use of the material for smaller signs as per my photo.

When gluing up these panels, there is no need for splines, biscuits or any other fancy fixtures. They are good for alignment but don't add any holding power. Good old Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue or Epoxy is hard to beat. If you use the plastic resin, mix it up to peanut butter thickness. Be sure to remove all the excess drip lines as it turns glass hard..

You will need to use a primer like Kils or Zinzer to hold back the tannans. In this pix I've reduced down the background with a 1/4" bit in preperation for sandblsting. The green sandblast mask was applied to the whole panel prior to routing. Sandblasting can be outsourced. You're only needing to bring up a little grain texture. Evem though, it's doubtful you'll be able to do this yourself because the wood is iron hard.

Prior to hogging out the background, I profile the letters and any decorative details with a down spiral 1/8" bit. I like making 1/8" passes down to .40". Unlike many woods this one will hold small detail very well for years since it hard and tight.

[michael_schwartz]

For interior signage I have been using Maple. Most my clients go nuts over a nice piece of curly sap maple, but even a piece of soft brown maple can be nice.

Maple also contrasts nicely with v-carved letters and graphics that have been highlighted with black paint. If a sign isn't easy to read it certainly won't solve the problem that it was intended to fix.

I can routinely find boards ranging from 12"-14" in width with some heartwood.

I haven't quite settled on an appropriate species for exterior signs. I am tempted to use Maple but I am unsure of how it would hold up. I think it could be done with regular maintenance, but then again just about anything could with enough work.

I am interested that Joe mentioned Eastern White Pine since it is so common here we forget it exists. We commonly think of it as a material reserved for the building trades. I may have to try it out and use it for my own sign.

[mario]

Here in Veracruz I do most of my work including signs on spanish cedar, it is quite stable and fairs rather well outdoors when finished with a good marine varnish. I like to think of it as a well planed decision but have to admit that being surrounded by spanish cedar trees just makes it readily available. Next to it gmelina comes second as sign material, it is a nice cream colored wood easily shaped and decorated, good outdoor performance once finished.

[wberminio]

I Hand Routed (way before CNC was even a dream) my business sign 25+ years ago out of Redwood. It is still in very,very good shape with very,very little maintenance ( actually no maintenance) .
I'd say that is a good test for an outdoor sign.

[joe]

Mario,

Thanks for posting. We've been missing you.

I have no idea what Spanish Cedar is. Sounds like an excellent choice. Please tell us more about the woods that are available to you. Where do you get them and are they expensive? Do they come kiln dried? Are you able to send a couple of photo's of your operation and woods? I know all of us would be very appreciatie.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[bleeth]

Joe: Spanish Cedar is known to Cigar freaks the world over. It is the wood of choice for lining a humidor. It is neither Spanish nor Cedar! It is a fragrant lightweight wood and is resistant to termites and rot making it a great choice for outside use. It is in the Mahogany family and machines very nicely.

[mario]

Joe, spanish cedar (Cedrela odorata) is a native tree from Mexico and Central America and as mentioned before it has nothing to do with the cedar family, it is a very close cousin of the Mahogany family and very difficult to distinguish from it if not for its typical aroma. It is this aromatic trait that makes it a coveted wood for humidors but it is used for just about everything. Furniture and doors made out of spanish cedar leave a very pleasant smell on rooms. Its color runs a wide range from a light tan to deep purplish brown and figure can be quite impressive in ribbon and striped specimens. It is available either kiln or air dried and it is just abundant around here.
Other widely locally grown species are Gmelina (Gmelina arborea), Chechen (Metopium brownei - black poisonwood in the US), Teak, Eastern white pine, Beech, Sweetgum, Guanacaste (Enterolobium cyclocarpum), Granadillo (Platimiscium yucatanum) and other pine species.
Here is a photo of a spanish cedar tree and couple of signs made from it.

[Greencarvings]

Anyone tried eastern red cedar aka aromatic cedar? Up here in Minnesota I can get aromatic cedar all day long for less than $1 bd foot. However, no such luck with western red cedar. That stuff is like $12 a bd foot.

I have been getting the deck boards on sale at the big box stores for western red cedar but they are deck grade which is pretty horrible stuff.

However, I have hardwoods up the wazoo. Oak, maple, cherry, kentucky coffee nut etc etc. All the stuff you do not want to use outside.

I would like to find a decent wood for exterior signs in my neck of the woods for cabin signs. The land of 10k lakes and the market screams for more people to do cabin signs.

[kurt_rose]

How about white oak? It's used a lot for trailer decking and my guess is it's very weather resistant.