Mounting question for you guys .

[dvmike]

Hi all !
I have an oval signn that I need to mount high and between two large timbers.
The sign will be 2 signs 1.5" thick sandwiched together.( I'm considering the use of MDO in the nmiddle as well)
I'n thje past I have built a steel frame from 1" flatbar , and handrouted a pocket in the back of the sign for the frame. Then I glue/ epoxythe sign together with the frame in the middle.
I was wondering if you folks have faced this and what you have done .
I know I can use the frame technique , but I know you guys that have done this a long time have more than one way to skin a cat !
(No animals were harmed in this remark :))

Any suggestions ?
Here is a 2 minute mock up .............:)
http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/2795/34776346.png (http://img821.imageshack.us/i/34776346.png/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[dakers]

We have done this type of sign four ways:
1. the method you describe using pocketed flat bars or threaded rod
2. custom iron decorative mounting hardware that bridges the sign and posts
3. wood slats from post to post behind two one sided signs
4. move the posts in to be behind two one sided signs

when we use the threaded rod we pocket some galvanized emt between the two 1.5'' hdu pieces then the threaded rod slides inside that emt and goes through the posts which are countersunk on the outside to make the washers and nuts that hold the threaded rod hidden. we use a painted pvc spacer between the sign and posts or make a decorative one piece hdu spacer that would cover the two or three threaded rods. this makes it easy for future maintenance when the sign has to be removed. the emt inside is the key to the rigidity and support because the threaded rod never comes in contact with the hdu to cause future problems.

[dvmike]

I love the EMT idea Dick !
It will make installation and removal a snap !
I knew I should post this question here .:D

[powerlsc]

Dick...EMT? New to this, can you tell me what this stands for? If you do an installation using this technique any time some would you post pictures before you assemble? Thanks, a picture is worth.....

Mike...would like to see how you resolve this too. I have bid in on a chamber of commerce replacement sign which is mounted between two brick posts. I'm wondering if Dicks method would work for this application.

[bleeth]

EMT: Electrical magnetic tubing, otherwise known as galvanized pipe. Available at hardware stores, BOr and BBl, as well as electrical distributors.

[joe]

Well, here's another consideration when using HDU. It doesn't flex and will cracks as the poles move. The tighter you bolt it down the more the problems. Oklahoma winds with 40mph gusts will take them apart. I'll be posting a photo. It's 3" HDU mounted between 6" steel posts show cracks.

This material works best when it goes along for the ride, not having any structural requirements.

A decorative 1/4" flat, strap iron around the oval is my favorite method. I have a couple of ovals swinging in Taos, NM. for the past ten years.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[dakers]

Will look for some photos. i may have failed to take photos of the construction method with emt. have done alot of them. it works really great, fast, easy and gives alot of strength and durability for hdu between posts. have done alot with flat strap as well. i like the emt because the emt takes the pressure and the rod can flex inside the emt without exerting pressure in direct spots on the hdu. the pressure is more distributed. you could use heavier pipe than emt if you wanted to. you can also use the hardened threaded rod for some situations. but for hanging swinging signs i would use the flat strap most of the time.
for going between brick columns i would use the flat strap. for going between wood posts i would use the emt.

[dakers]

here is one we did using the threaded rod, emt and pvc covers.
we used the tempered threaded rod on this one. has been up about 15 years in open area. looks like new today. all painted with matthews acryilic polyurethane then clear coated

[dakers]

here is one using custom made brackets. could have been fancier bracket but budgets get in my way or i am not good at sales.

[dakers]

here is one using the emt , threaded rod but no fabrication photos yet

[joe]

Beautiful signs Dick,

Interesting but they don't look like HDU. Are you sure about that? Blade signs are in a class of their own. Oval signs require some extra thinking. A steal frame is my best advice.

The attached signs were mounted direct between steel posts with no room to move.

Don't you just love the expert repair job. Good old HDU can be fixed. HeHeHe.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[dakers]

joe the funeral home and golf course are hdu . the cordier plumbing has a polyurethane molded architectural accent topper with separate polyurethane ball top adapted to the aluminum sign with the text. just put it there to show some brackets. our hdu signs have in the past looked more like new cars due to the matthews two component paint but we do not use that paint currently.

[beacon14]

Dave I believe that EMT stands for electrical metallic tubing AKA conduit. Galvanized pipe is a different animal and is (was) used for water pipes or when colored black for gas pipes. EMT is made for running electrical wiring and is not typically threaded on the ends.

[dakers]

could use aluminum square tube also if you want to.
we have not had any negative issues with this emt method in the last 15 years

[joe]

Dick,

I agree this is a good method. My major concern for Mike is with Ovals.

Joe

[joe]

We need some rain. The wind settled down today but you never know. The crops, the crops, o, the crops. I love Oklahoma.

Joe

[dakers]

i think using the emt, threaded rod it would end up looking like this attachment.
the emt can butt up to the posts and the smaller hole through the posts allows the threaded rod to go through and everything is good. you can cover the emt with painted pvc tubing or can use signfoam scraps to make a cover that fits over both of the emts like the smaller oval below

[dakers]

Joe now you got me thinking about henry fonda and the grapes of wrath.
I was in oklahoma at fort sill for artillery. was hot in day and cold at night there as i recall at the time i was there in 1968

[dakers]

here is another one we did with threaded rod and emt.
it is very ugly sign i think but this is the look the customer wanted.

[joe]

There's no end to the amount of brackets which can be employed. However the larger they are the more of a visual element they become. You could even use French Flourishes which come from Bourbon Street.

The attachment below is what I've previously described. It allows the HDU panel to float within the steel oval frame. HDU is just about the worst structural materials possible. When using it, I often attach it to tougher materials like 1' pvc. mdo, Extira, and aluminum. It's great for 3D carving but that's about it.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[dakers]

http://www.hooksandlattice.com/architectural-sign-brackets.html

this company has many standard brackets that can adapt to oval signs and more.
the attachment shows one of their ceiling brackets. but the cost for two 50'' wide would be about $390 with shipping probably.

could use flat bar embedded for the connection to the bracket or just drop the bracket down to the sign for attachment with mechanical fasteners

[dakers]

http://atlassignsandplaques.com/haikuarchhangingbladesignbracket.aspx

these brackets can be adapted creatively to oval sign projects also.

but they are fancy. not for every business. the one joe suggested would work for any business.

[dakers]

we just made internal pocketed flat bar brackets on a hdu sign that was similar to the attachment. we used 2''x1/4'' flat stock. had it all welded up.
it was pocketed in the hdu. worked great.
the gray strips represent the flat steel.
just have to make sure you have enough clearance between brackets and sign if you run a bolt through from the sign side but you can alter the fastener design to suit.

[dakers]

not an oval but had to build this from ground up. attachment shows the welded flat bar bracket that the masons installed in the stone as they built it.
then we pocketed flat bar in the hdu sign to match the spacing. seem like it worked out good. maybe too time consuming. i had the brackets attached to a piece of plywood so the masons could just level the plywood with brackets attached so it would all fit when we brought the sign to install. did not want to use external brackets attached to the stone which was very uneven , etc.

probably many ways to do the same thing but the masons like it. the stone pillars cost $6,000. could have used faux for half that but they wanted real

[dakers]

here is photo of the finished project. i do not like it from frontal view, pillars seem too far from sign but it is one sided sign viewed at angle and we had to spread the pillars so they would not block the lettering. customer did not want to move the sign forward on the pillars but wanted sign centered.

little thing like this take alot of time to survey so it ends up being readable

we paid out about $600 plus for permits for this hdu sign, crazy!