finally updated my vac setup.

[knight_toolworks]

I have been wanting to replace those lousy valves for the longest time. Plus my hoses have been collapsing when I use my heavy vac setup so it was time to change. So I have two feins they were matching but one is in repair so I am using a older and an ewer one. the box the bucket is on has two 220 vac motors in it. I have to change hoses to use that one.
so I bought the knife valves on bay for 20.00 each and the guy was pretty close so shipping was 7.00 and came the next day. after I bought them I realised I should have bought six so I could shut off each vac setup. but then I found the check valves for less and used them.
so the box is made from 1/2" mdo single sided. I got it for 15 a sheet. but it sure was not flat and I had a hell of a time getting the box together. I should have used the 3/4" I got for the same price the box is like a bellows. so one side has the feigns and since the layout changed I ended up with the check valve inside the box. I could not put it in the stronger vac side because of heat and i need to put a filter in there.
The second side the motors will be mounted on a board and they will drop in. I need access to the filter below them. I will put hose on them and pipe it ousted the box.
I also used a union so I could unhook the box from the main line.
I wanted the valves to not stick out past the table so they would not get caught on something as I go by so I had to cut the pipe short and get them to match that was the work but it is not too hard. Now everything is clean and no more flex hose. after I use it for awhile I may rebuild it in 3/4" material.
I also used a male and female threaded couples to connect the box but it is better to use conduit connectors as they don't have tapered threads so they are easier to screw tight.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/knighttoolworks/posting/photo1-22-4.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/knighttoolworks/posting/photo2-20-4.jpg

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/knighttoolworks/posting/photo3-14-1.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/knighttoolworks/posting/photo4-7-3.jpg

[knight_toolworks]

this pic shows the outside check valve and the union. though I think it would be good to have a union on one or both ends of the check valve so it can be replaced.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/knighttoolworks/posting/photo5-4-1.jpg

[dhunt]

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/knighttoolworks/posting/photo1-22-4.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/knighttoolworks/posting/photo2-20-4.jpg

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/knighttoolworks/posting/photo3-14-1.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/knighttoolworks/posting/photo4-7-3.jpgWhen last did you clean up your shop??

How do you get anything done in there, without tripping up over all the mess and clutter??

[mark_stief]

Thats kinda what I was thinking too but didn't want to say anything but Dave started it:eek::eek::eek::eek:

[kevin]

Steve you need a shop vac set up I did mine on the cheap I mean cheap

I dont mean to instult or critize , as I apporance a certain age it gets scary the abuse I did at a younger age

[knight_toolworks]

mostly the mess is out of the way. but it all got yanked out. but some of the clutter got taken care of without the hoses in the way and the pipe on the floor. as long I keep the main part of the floor clean I can live. Plus the guy I bring in to clean up when it gets out of control never seems to get under the machine.

[gundog]

I think you are going to like those new knife valves.

Mike

[knight_toolworks]

I think you are going to like those new knife valves.

Mike

thats for sure and they are not much more then the crappy designed ones.

[meatbal80]

Crappy desinged ones? I am going to a plumbed system in the next few months. Where should i look for good vavles? What are the things i should keep an eye open for?

[bleeth]

He's referring to the twist ball valves from Big Orange, etc. The knife ones operate easier and more quicker and are available from suppliers of pool stuff. There have been a couple links about them. Credit for first known Botter to use them was Gary Campbell. He set them up with air operated linear slides.

[bill.young]

A couple of years ago Paco made his own valves out of acrylic to replace the ball valves.

http://pacosarea.blogspot.com/2007/12/all-acrylic-gate-valve-for-vacuum-hold.html

[knight_toolworks]

I thought about making them but I did not have the time. the box was enough of a time eater and redoing the whole setup.

[gene]

Do the knife valves have any air leaks ? I use metal ones for dust collection but i havent seen the ones for a vac hold down ,

[bleeth]

The one's made for pools have seals and don't leak. Paco explains that tolerances need to be close on his design. I would imagine that as long as the flat areas line up and are flat the vacuum action would help seal it. For 8 zones if I had enough Acrylic laying around I might use it but the ones made for water systems have been in use for many years now and are readily available.
Here's a link to Gary's column:

http://www.shopbotblog.com/index.php/2010/07/the-k-i-s-s-vacuum-manifold/

and here is previous discussion:

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1986&highlight=vacuum+gates

a search for PVC Gate Valves will bring up loads of suppliers. You should pay within a couple bucks of 16 each. You want to make sure the shaft isn't plastic.

[knight_toolworks]

got everything finished. for the separate motors I just used a shopvac filter I made a simple adapter to fit it on the 2" pipe. the motors just sit on a sealed board with gasket so I can remove them if needed. piping in and out the air should keep things cooler.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/knighttoolworks/posting/A58A45DA-orig.jpg
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[Gary Campbell]

Steve...
Your center pic in post #15 shows a common "box" for the intake and exhaust cooling air. This will cause them to run hot. Extremely hot if that space is enclosed. You should install a baffle to separate these two airflows.

[knight_toolworks]

I changed this a bit since the pic. the two straight pipes feed air right to the motors and I have a simple hole to let the air out. I made a covered top to keep the sawdust out. works well and now the motors are only running warm.

[Gary Campbell]

Steve...
My post was more for others, maybe than you.

To clarify, there should be a 3 - 3.5" direct pipe to each motor for cooling air and an equal or larger vent for the exhaust. Or a flat baffle like I use on my Black Box systems to make sure that no heated air is recirculated into the cooling fan. There have been a good number of these motors burned down by those that didnt add the separation or forgot to add any venting at all for the cooling system.

[knight_toolworks]

Steve...
My post was more for others, maybe than you.

To clarify, there should be a 3 - 3.5" direct pipe to each motor for cooling air and an equal or larger vent for the exhaust. Or a flat baffle like I use on my Black Box systems to make sure that no heated air is recirculated into the cooling fan. There have been a good number of these motors burned down by those that didnt add the separation or forgot to add any venting at all for the cooling system.

no problem. Yes I learned that you have way too much heat otherwise.
How did you reduce the noise? just with baffles and using mdf? mine run at 92dbs.

[Gary Campbell]

Steve...
For my system, I use just the baffles. I have installed a few that were placed remotely for noise reduction. Tom Baker in FL put his outside. I jusy installed one for Terry Hall in IA that was placed in an adjacent room. Most of us are cutting sheets and want the power over quiet. If you want quiet, you need to burn down a few Feins to get it. If you want holding power, go LightHouse. It has been a few years since Brady posted the original 9-15 system, and there are hundreds of them out there holding down parts.

I dont know how many db's this version is with either 2 or 4 running, but is substantially less than when I had 4 motors open under the table. I have an FM NR headphones and use them often, as many of my machines are noisier than the Vac Box.

Here is a link to get a peek at the baffles etc: http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11813

[knight_toolworks]

I was thinking you said you could talk while they were running. that's why I like having both I don't always need the extra power but it's nice not to have to change hoses to choose. I made a baffle like a h and overhangs to keep sawdust from falling in.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s266/knighttoolworks/posting/1E0996CF-orig.jpg

[Gary Campbell]

Steve...
They are not quiet like a Fein, but you can talk while they are on. My old setup was like listening to a jet engine.

[bleeth]

Hey GC-When you and I talk they can hear us in Poughkeepsie:rolleyes:

[Brady Watson]

Putting them outside or in a mechanical room is best, when noise is a concern. You just have to make sure you protect the units from the elements.

As a side note, there are a LOT of good used industrial grade vacuum pumps out there that can be had for a lot less than retail if you do your research, look around, and know what's hot & what's not.

92 decibels? Forget that...my chainsaw tops out at around 110. Don't lose your hearing over saving a couple of bucks. Worktunes are a must. Then again, a dust monster might rise up out of that pile you got there and get you before the noise does :D

-B

[geneb]

Silly question - is there any penalty incurred by remoting the vacuum source? I've got a pair of Lighthouse motors for my hold down setup but they're insanely loud. I'd love to make them go live in the same box with the dust collector, but that would mean running 2" pipe about 50 feet.....

tnx.

g.

[Brady Watson]

Silly question - is there any penalty incurred by remoting the vacuum source?

It's not silly at all. You'll lose some velocity due to longer pipe length, which in the real world means that you'll lose some CFM/airflow. That in turn, may cause a slight reduction in initial suction - as you try to get 'over the hump' and get your parts to seal to the bleeder. Ultimate holding power, in terms of suction (Hg") will not be affected unless you really choke the plumbing (like going down to 1").

If you're worried, use 3" to feed your 2" system. Plumbing is just like electrical work:

Ampacity = Pipe Diameter
Voltage = Pressure
Resistance = Resistance

Of course you can always Google how much flow will be lost over the whole length, to give you an exact quantifiable answer.

-B

[geneb]

Thanks Brady. That's what I suspected, but I wasn't sure. The two vacs run in parallel (I couldn't afford the series units) and pull 9 inHg with my new plenum & ultralight MDF spoilboard. I need to see if there's room for me to pull 2 15A circuits - each motor pulls 13A...

g.