Real 4 axis cam

[itamarj]

Hey Guys,
I recently assembled an indexer on my shopbot, and I love it.
I tried to mill several 3d models and i'm excited about what you can get with it.
Although I notice that in Artcam and in Partworks you can not really get a 4 axis control, which limit the result. i.e the router is moving only in 3 axes (in my case the X,Z, A) while it always stand in the center of the rotation (Y is not moving at all).
So no undercuts are getting milled eventhough there is possibility to reach those undercuts if the y was in motion too.
I realize that I need a better software for doing that, and in my research I only found Mastercam for doing the job.

Is there any other software you recommend? What Mastercam software will answer my need?

Thanks!

[garyb]

Powermill - for up to 5 axis

[Chuck Keysor]

David, I own Mastercam Router, with Solids Modeling and Art. This combo cost $10,000 and it will not do what you want. Mastercam does make more expensive multi-axis software. I don't know what it costs, but I assure you it is lots more than the $10,000 I spent.

You can read my post which I made late last week, if you are interested in my story.

Good luck, Chuck

[itamarj]

Hey Chuck
Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate you sharing your story.
I've got a educational demo of mastercam and going to try it out before I'll make any purchase, definitely if it's going to be so expensive. It's such a massive software, I hope that I could figure out if its can actually help me.

Gary, do you use Powermill for your indexer? If so can you tell me a little bit more about your experience with it?

[garyb]

No David, I use Artcam
PowerMill is Delcam's next step up for full 5 axis machining, you can go to powermill.com for more info
Gary

[ken_rychlik]

Check into a program called visualmill. I got a copy with a machine and I'm not positive yet, but it looks like it will do what you want.

[garyb]

Kenneth, last time I checked visualmill was 3-axis with a 4th axis plug in.
Dave was looking for full 5-axis software
Gary

[myxpykalix]

correct me if i'm wrong but you can get programs that will carve in 3,4,5 axis but if you don't have a machine that will cut in 3,4,5 axis's then aren't you just pissin in the wind?:rolleyes:

[Gary Campbell]

Jack...
Pretty close. Kinda like you reading Masters & Johnson :D

[CNYDWW]

What about a trunnion indexer (double axis indexer) added just like a regular indexer for a five axis add on.

http://www.datrondynamics.com/images/CNC_Automation_Robotics/CNC_Automation_Robotics_Trunnion.jpg

Found this after the fact. For woodworking this would be a decent setup i think.

[myxpykalix]

"Pretty close. Kinda like you reading Masters & Johnson"
I might be insulted if i didn't already know they wrote one of the most important studies known to "Men":eek: lol

It seems to me that the reason for the 5 axis is to get to be able to do "undercuts" and unless this trunion is mounted on the carrige similar to the 5 axis shopbot i saw a picture of. By the time you pay for the program to run it and the 5 axis machine, i'm not sure the thing you are trying to accomplish is worth the investment.

What i would be interested in is, for example, some way to identify where your undercuts might be and rig up some type of support system where you can hand move a router on a floating table where you can move the workpiece to position the undercuts to be 90 degrees to the bit, or have it controlled say by an indexer?

[Chuck Keysor]

For what it is worth, this came into my email box today. Chuck


We are pleased to announce the addition of a new course on Mastercam University-Multiaxis Curve, Drill, and Circle Mill.

The Multiaxis Curve, Drill, and Circle Mill course starts out with an overview of some common 5-axis machines. It covers X, Y, Z, a, b, and c-axis combinations and machine zero positions. The course also goes into detail on tool axis control and geometry creation for tool axis control.

Extensive training is also offered on how to use the 5-axis Curve, Drill, and Circle Mill toolpaths.

Machine Simulation is used to illustrate the advantages of seeing your multiaxis part being machined virtually. There are multiple lessons on how to create and manipulate planes for multiaxis machining.

And, as a bonus, there is a complete module on 4th Axis Rotary Machining (including Axis substitution, Axis positioning, and Rotary Surface Machining).

Please visit http://www.mastercam.com/Support/Training/MastercamU/Default.aspx (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=kftf58bab&et=1106448978031&s=14896&e=001Bpa-eqM6vOwMwboFqHlYhWWp64K5omBMzAk_ehrUx2IjBAJMyDu4yH v-DVLa6Eloa3ScbliN4zE6QwqCtMjB6Lmpys93iJSgxbeTcVPh3H ifMApFBuYsuBWISJvXD3EPbJlP_GjuoYWE5_3Xqn_-xJnhi2JcmAO34jakdfif83dGk-RbvsWrgw==)for more information on Mastercam University's online training.

[Brady Watson]

5-axis = Dig deep, son. Dig deep.

Truth be known, it is very hard to get a return on your investment in 5-axis technology, unless your business REALLY needs it. The hardware part is easy. SB has a 5-axis setup for around $40k - which is cheap as far as 5-axis tools go.

The software, all training aside, will cost you in the neighborhood of $30k to $40k for a complete "don't jerk me around - do what I want" solution. This is for both CAD & CAM suited to 5-axis machining. (E.G. - PowerShape & PowerMill)

If you want to play the band-aid game with different software packages, you will wind up disappointed. You can do a lot with existing economical CAM software. The indexer + 3 axis CAM (and 4th axis plugins) can take you a very long way. At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself if you NEED the machine to do everything, or if, after you crunch numbers, it makes more sense to hire a hand carver to finish it up.

-B

[gus]

Brady, You hit the nail on the head.

it makes more sense to hire a hand carver to finish it up.

As far as that goes I am not too sure most of my customers would know the difference. But when it gets to bothering me that is just what I do myself. Can't afford to hire anyone.:eek: Not sure what I would do with axis 4 and 5. I can just keep tack of the 3 that I have and some days I am not too sure about that. I even have a few things hanging on the wall as proof of that.:rolleyes: