How to turn on my spindle

[Chuck Keysor]

Hello, in continuing to start up my PRT alpha, my spindle moves in x, y and z directions, with Mx, M2, jog, circle commands etc. I loaded in the only test file that came with my machine and decided to run it with the spindle turned on, without a cutting bit. ("Air cutting".)

I plugged in the Delta VFD-B power cord, and its display and fans turned on. (Full model number VFD075B23A). Then in SB3, I told the loaded file to run. The spindle moved in x, y and z, but the spindle itself did not turn on. IE the spindle shaft did not rotate. The Shopbot control/display didn't give any error messages. It seemed like it was happy. But the spindle didn't spin!

When the test part file had finished, I played with the buttons on the VFD control box. But that didn't make much happen, except in the jog mode, the spindle shaft would rotate. But I would guess it was only going a couple of hundred RPM.

I carefully checked the brown cable that goes from the VFD into the silver control box. Both the black and white wires were tightly attached to the connector block labled VFD1. I never had to disconnect these wires or plug in the process of disassembling, transporting and reassembling my PRT alpha.

The PRT manual that I have (it is not a PRT alpha manual) didn't give any instruction about how to turn on the spindle. So I looked in the Columbo manual that came with my Shopbot, but it didn't give any info telling me how to get the spindle to run. There were general instructions on how to warm it up, but not much more.

I did a search on the Shopbot forum, but when I entered "How to start a spindle", or "running a spindle", I just got error messages. So I have no information.

As a note, my spindle is a 5HP Columbo running on 220/single phase. And it was demonstrated to me before I bought it, runninig on 220/single phase.

So, what do I do? Thanks, Chuck

[myxpykalix]

Chuck,
I don't have a spindle so take this for what its worth...
I have a prt alpha that runs on 220 but has a 110 power line connector in the box that is connected to a extension cord run to my router.

I leave my router power switch in the on position and when i load a file up and hit the ok button to start the file i have to hit the start button on the side of the control box and the power to the router starts, i hit ok and the file starts.

Again, i don't own a spindle, but what i've read is when you initially start a spindle first thing is you have to let it warm up for like 10 minutes. I'm wondering do you let it warm up for 10 minutes then turn it off, then start your file and let the file start the spindle? Probably...

There is probably something in the control software that triggers the power for your spindle that has to be turned on or some line of code or instruction that needs to be inserted.
By the time you read this someone will have chimed in and given specific instructions:eek:

[MogulTx]

Do you have an automatic "spindle on" command in the file?

Bring up the Shopbot Control Software ( probably SB3), and type in FE in the command line. That will bring up FIle Editing in a text format. Look for a command after /around the spindle speed indication that looks like this:
SO,5,1
or
SO,1,1 ( I don't know what port the power to the spindle might be set. I think it can be from 1 to 6, if it is like the router based machines- which is what mine is.)

Please remember that at the end of the final cut, after the spindle has lifted, and is about to return "home" that you need a command to turn off your spindle. The home command should look like "J2, 0.000000, 0.000000" or something similar. I always turn the router off after the lift out when you see the command line "JZ, .800000".
To ENTER this command, if none is present ( same with the turn on command) is to just type what I have typed above.

BTW: without editing the program, if you want to test the power on function ( again- might be different with a spindle!) You can test the router on by simply typing "SO" in the command line, it will pop up a secondary screen in that screen you will type your 1 to 6 designation ( I believe the others ar for adding vacuum auto-on, drill auto on, ("other accessory" power essentially)). Once you have chosen one of the numbers hit "TAB" on your computer and either type 1 to start or 0 to stop electricity to the item.

With MY machine, the power out from the control box is set to go to the router. There is a secondary line out that was previously for vacuum, BUT that was from the previous owner and I didn't think I wanted to try to suck 24 amps through my control box now that I have a 110V dust collection system. ( I need to check the capacity of the system. It would be nice to run it through there, if possible.)

My system is set up with a 110V plug coming out of the control box. You have a spindle, and I assume you do not have a plug, but rather are hard wired- but please check just the same...

Anyway- this will give you something else to learn about and check on.

Lastly: Don't worry. Frank or Nancy or someone with spindle-specific knowledege will chime in here pretty quick!

I hope you enjoy the ShopBot as much as I do. I HAD to get one after seeing Neville Stewart's machine. He, and pretty much everyone else on here are GREAT folks and their attitudes made the decision for me to get my own. Good luck on it.

Monty

[Gary Campbell]

Chuck...
To test the spindle circuit:
open keyboard [K]
mouse toggle output 1
spindle should start (with message)

IF this works, then you should make sure postP has "spindle on" command:
open your cut file in the SB editor
Look near the end of the header for a "SO,1,1" command
there should also be a "SO,1,0" command in the footer

IF you are using a newer version software for creating the cut file, then there should be "C6" command to turn on and a "C7" to turn off in place of the "SO" commands listed above.

If these are not in the file, you will have to research how to modify the post processor for your design program to include these lines.

[Chuck Keysor]

Thanks guys for the quick replies. Quickly, after reading the posts, the spindle still isn't running.

Details:

Jack, yes, the VFD powered up when I turned on the silver control box and had hit the reset button. But the spindle didn't run.

Gary, per the "SO" program lines: At the start of the cut file, there was a note that this file was created with Part Wizard. In the file header, it did say "SO, 1,1". And in the file footer, there was a line saying "SO,1,0".

Using the [K] keyboard command: With the VFD on, then turning on the PC and opening SB3 (3.5.18), I noted the following displays on the Red Position dialog box: Inputs 1,2,5,6,7,8 were off/dark. Input 3 has a vertical yellow line with a red ring around it. Input 4 has a red outer ring, with a solid green center.

Then I used the [K] keyboard command. As the yellow keyboard dialog box opened, output 4 turned blue, and there were no other changes.

Then I toggled the output 1 switch to the "on" position, and its indicator turned blue, and there were no other changes to the displays, and the spindle did not start to run.

More clues:

When the Delta VFD powers up, its display shows "F 400.00 STOP FWD" And the least significant digit of 400.00 is blinking.

Thank you all, and I will stay tuned hoping for further instructions, Chuck!

[Gary Campbell]

Chuck...
It looks like there maybe some amiss. You could post some pics of the inside of your control box. This will allow someone that has knowledge of your model machine to guide you. ( I have little or no knowledge of that vintage machine)

Or a call to SB Tech supt. They will get you going

[Chuck Keysor]

Gary, per your suggestion, I have provided two photos. If no one can crack this nut, I will contact ShopBot tomorrow. Thanks again for your work on my behalf. I appreciate it! Chuck

[Gary Campbell]

Chuck...
post a pic showing the wiring (heavy cord)that comes from the VFD into the control box. I am trying to verify if yours goes thru a contactor. Either way, SB will know your exact setup, and can give troubleshoot steps.

[Chuck Keysor]

Gary, here are two shots that show what I think you are interested in. Thanks again, Chuck

[2Egress Sound & Design]

Hey Chuck,

I just went through the same thing with my new PRS Alpha 48 96 but with a router.
Are you trying to cut the ShopBot logo file they supplied with the unit? If so that file isn't written to be cut. Its just for "air cutting" like you said the machine is able to do. I didn't know this until I called ShopBot and they told me this. It is apparently missing the part in the file to turn it on.

Make up a new part file of your own and see what you can do.
Now take this from a very newbie guy but at least I am cutting stuff now and I too was worried and pulling my hair out trying to figure it out.

If I am wrong guys spare me the cabbages! :)

Just going on what I experienced and what I was told.

Good luck!

Brock

[Chuck Keysor]

Hello fellow Newbie Brock! Thanks for your reply. Actually, the test logo file, and all the other test files had been deleted from my PC, for whatever reason, by the man who sold me my used SB. My PC had only one cut file, and that was the sign that was cut for me as I watched, to prove the machine worked. So, that file should actually cut/start the spindle.

Gary's instruction to use the keyboard command [K] and toggle output 1 should have also started the spindle. But it didn't. I am hopeful that the spindle's control unit simply needs to be reprogrammed. As Gary suggested, I emailed my problem description to ShopBot's tech support group this morning, and am awaiting their reply. Perhaps I should have phoned them. But when something is free, I like to be as careful as I can be to not abuse it, so I don't wear out my welcome. Maybe that is the wrong way to look at it. If so, hopefully someone will let me know.

Good luck with your new machine! And thanks for your thoughtful suggestion. Chuck

[2Egress Sound & Design]

Glad to have at least tried to help Chuck.
I wish you success with your spindle issue and if anyone can it will be the guys at ShopBot! That being said this forum is the best too!

[Chuck Keysor]

OK, I talked to Frank at Shopbot yesterday to figure out why my spindle didn't start up when I loaded a cut file. He first asked me to disconnect the brown cable that goes into the PRT alpha control box from the Delta VFD. Then short the two wires in the brown cable together. I did that, and the spindle fired right up.

Then Frank said that either a relay had gone bad on the control board (in the big silver control box), but he said that never happens,,,, OR he said, you may not have pressed the START button. I said, "Well of course I hit the START button. That is when the VFD first powered up."

Frank said, no, not then. He asked me to go back and load my test cut file. Then I did, and I got a display window saying: "Start Router/Spindle with "Start" button, then click OK to Run." (See first photo.) Frank then asked me to press the start button, and I said, "Well, gee, I already did that before...." He said, no, you need to press the big green button on the silver box at this point also, in order to start the spindle. (See second photo.)

I went to the big green START button, pressed it, and the spindle started right up! Operator Error!

Maybe he was being polite to make me not feel so bad, but he said you would be surprised at how often new users make the same mistake you did.

I said, well, if it is a common error, the least I can do, is to post this resolution as to why my spindle did not start when I thought it should. But after a little thinking, it made sense that the spindle wouldn't just fire up as soon as I had entered the cut file and told the software to run. The spindle should require this extra step, just so it doesn't inadvertantly get turned on.

So, I have attached a photo of the screen display that I got, and then show what green button has to be pressed, AFTER the cut file has been loaded and the pictured display appears.

Sorry, but thanks! Chuck

[steve_g]

Chuck:

From my ancient history as a "Plant Engineer" at a steel stamping shop... our presses were required by law to have a "prior act" that a operator must do to start a press. This "Act" had to be something that could not happen accidentally or inadvertently. Typically... push a centre button and then hold two separate hand controls...

I mounted my Bot control box where I have to stand up, walk two steps, and push the start button... something I'm not likely to do accidentally! Thus my "prior Act". Sometimes, when I'm tired, I think about wiring up a remote "start" button but then I remember what always happens when a creative individual by-passes safety equipment.

Thank you for posting and reminding me that there was a time when it was all new and overwhelming!

Steve

[Gary Campbell]

Chuck...
My bad. I've done some unapproved mods to my wiring that eliminates the need for pressing the start button. I never even thought of that! Kudos to the guys that dont overlook even the most obvious.

[2Egress Sound & Design]

Good to hear it was just a learning experience, they are much cheaper than some hardware faults! Don't worry Chuck I am sure that there isn't one guy or gal on this forum that can throw a stone at the glass house of operator error :)

Best and good luck!