Spindle speed and warm-up

[Chuck Keysor]

The instructions that came with my 5HP Columbo spindle, say that it should be warmed up at 50% of maximum name plate label speed for 4 minutes, then be run at 75% of the maximum name plate label speed for 3 minutes, and finally 3 minutes at full speed. I did not get a manual for my Delta VFD-B, and there isn't any info on this unit in my big SB binder either.

Question 1: Is there a built-in warm-up routine in my Delta VFD? If so, what keypad commands do I execute to bring up the warm-up routine? This would seem to be a pretty basic and obvious feature to include.

Question set 2: The Columbo spindle has two name plates, one says 18,000 RPM max @ 300Hz. The other name plate says 24,000 RPM max @ 400Hz. Do I select the frequency of 300Hz or 400Hz with the Delta VFD-B? How do I decide which frequency I should use? Or does it really make any difference? Or is the frequency beyond my control?

Thank you again for your assistance, Chuck

[ATX Poly Products]

I have a shopbot 2.2 hp kit so I don't know if this is the same but...

I use a C5 command to run the warm-up routine. It runs three speeds for a total of 9 minutes.

3 min of 9000
3 min of 10000
3 min of 12000

[dlcw]

On my 2.2hp spindle is use the following warm up routine

7000 for 2 minutes
10000 for 2 minutes
13000 for 2 minutes
15000 for 2 minutes
18000 for 2 minutes

Never have had a problem in 2 years.

There is a spindle warm up routine that comes with the Shopbot.

[Brady Watson]

The purpose of warming up the spindle is to warm up the grease in the bearings, without skidding them and to allow the metals to fully expand so that shaft runout and end play are within spec before you apply a load.

High RPM applied to a cold spindle can 'skid' the bearings...much like a 'spun bearing' in an engine. It can cause the balls and seats to gall and other ugly things. It's like that crazy neighbor who starts his car in the Winter and revs the heck out of it before things are warmed up. It's enough to make you cringe if you understand what that does to an engine.

I have a very good friend who has been doing industrial electric motor repair for 30+ years. When he helped me rebuild my 2001 Colombo he told me to start it spinning slowly. I typically start warming up around 5000 RPM. In the Winter, I start at 3000 RPM. I get things moving and then switch to 9000 RPM after I feel that the lower bearing support (cast iron) is not ice cold. It takes as long as it takes to warm up, and this is directly influenced by ambient temperatures.

You really don't want to crank the RPM up high until the grease inside is warmed up. Think candle wax. The spindle will warm up just fine at lower RPM. It might just take a little longer, but you'll be rewarded with longer spindle life if you avoid the temptation to crank it up right away.

-B

[adrianm]

What about cool down?

I've seen it mentioned in several posts here but no information as to times and methods.

[Gary Campbell]

I agree with Brady..

My warmup starts at 6000 increments to 20K

cooldown is 5 minutes @ 6K for me

[mike_greschuk]

If there is the c5 command for a spindle warmup routine is there a command for when you have a second spindle (A axis)?
Thanks,
Mike

[Gary Campbell]

Mike...
There is not a "canned" version, but if you email me a copy of your existing warmup, with a few questions, we can build one. Email in RED lower left

[adana]

Brady's message of "It Takes As Long As It Takes" makes a lot of sense to me. I've always wondered whether it varies with ambient temperature, time since completion of previous cut, etc.

It shouldn't be too difficult to make this a closed loop thing, right?
-Affix a thermocouple to the bearing housing area (maybe drill in a bit, to be closest to the part that matters)
-Provide the temperature as an input to the Shopbot (er, anyone know how to do that? Maybe via one of these (http://www.mccdaq.com/usb-data-acquisition/USB-1208-Series.aspx)?)
-Start at a speed appropriate for current housing temp
-Ramp in much smaller increments, in response to observed temp elevation

I'd like to hope it would end up being faster than just using a fixed amount of time every time. It would certainly eliminate the "hope I'm not screwing this up" worry.

Another thought: why don't we just heat wrap that portion of our spindles (like a pipe in danger of freezing)? No warmup needed at all...

[Chuck Keysor]

Hello and thanks:

1) With everything powered up, I entered C5 into the command line of the Shopbot "Control Console", and nothing happened. The larger display below the command line flashed something for a moment, and then the "Previous:" window below that, showed "C5". I also tried pushing the big green start button on the big silver PRT alpha control box, and that didn't do anything. The Delta VFD is running, but the spindle doesn't start. (The only way I could start my spindle, was to load the cut file I have, and then press the big green start button on the PRTalpha control box.) What am I doing wrong this time?

2) My ShopBot Command Quick Reference sheet doesn't list C5. But in a Shopbot screen display, I found a listing for C5 (with an underscore beneath 5) and that said: "Return to Z".

3) Any comments on my original question 2, about 300Hz and 400Hz?

Thanks, Chuck

[srwtlc]

Chuck,

If your install of SB3 isn't a fresh install of one of the latest versions, you may not have that routine in Custom5.sbc

If you go to C:\SbParts\Custom and open Custom5.sbc, the text in the file should look like this...

'Spindle Warmup Routine
'--------------------------------------------------------------------------
TR,9000

SO,1,1
TR, 9000
Pause 180
TR,10000
Pause 180
TR, 12000
Pause 180

SO, 1,0

If it does contain this text, then, do you have the USB spindle control unit hooked up and the little spindle control window open (TR) and set to your VFD with the port number of the USB control (you have to click on RPM in the little window to bring up the settings)?

The USB spindle control board is a separate little board that is needed to control the spindle RPM from the computer/software.

If you don't have this, you'll have to manually change the RPM on the VFD.

[Chuck Keysor]

Scott, thanks for the reply!

1) I am positive that I do not have a USB connection from my Delta VFD. The only wires coming out of the Delta VFD are for power, and the brown cable, which allows the spindle to be turned on with a contact closure in the SB PRTalpha control box.
a) How can I find out about installing the USB interface to my
Delta VFD? This sounds like a pretty valuable feature.
b) Again, my has brain has failed me, for if I would have sat and
concentrated, I should have asked myself, "Chuck, now if people
are saying you can control the spindle speed from the Shopbot PC
interface, how do you think that could possibly happen when there
is no PC connection to the Delta VFD??????" I guess this is added
proof that at the start of my Shopbot learning curve, my total
befuddlement is keeping my brain from engaging. I hate it when that
happens...........

2) I will report back on the presence of the spindle control software in my
PC. I normally wouldn't have reported back without first investigating, but I was to eager to reply to your much appreciated input!

Thanks, Chuck

[Gary Campbell]

Chuck...
ShopBot sells the spindle control module.

The spindle control software (sic) is included with most newer versions of SB3. So nothing to buy there

[srwtlc]

Chuck,

The RPM control board from SB is here...http://www.shopbottools.com/mProducts/spindles.htm

...and a .pdf on installation of it for the Delta VDF... http://www.shopbottools.com/files/SBG00339080616SpindleControlBoardDelta.pdf

As Gary stated, the software is there under the "Tools" menu.

Once you get all that installed, you'll have more questions. ;)

Keep on keepin' on and soon all these things will fall into place and the chips can fly. ;)

[Chuck Keysor]

Thanks Scott and Gary.

a) I called ShopBot and ordered the spindle speed control kit. I guess that is the easy part.

b) I looked in C:\SbParts\Custom and opened Custom5.sbc. It had a file concerned with "Return to Z". I opened every file in that folder, there were 14, (one about SB logo cut demo, zero the z axis, homing x and y axis). None made mention of spindles, or warming them up.

Should I go to the SB website and try and just find this one file about the spindle warm up? I'd rather not try and replace anything more than that, so that I don't toss a handgrenade into my computer's workings. Comments?

Thanks, Chuck

[bleeth]

With SB3 open enter C5 in the command box.
If you do it from the Cuts pull down you will see "spindle warm up" and can open by clicking. If it isn't there you must be on an old version of SB3.

[Chuck Keysor]

Hello Dave.

1) I opened SB3, and in the Shobot Console's Command Box, I entered C5. I got this message: "Coordinate System Change Warning". And the top line of text in the large window below the command line, said "Return to Z".

2) In the Cuts pull-down menu, there was nothing labeled "spindle warm-up". The closest thing was under a heading: "Optional Controls" which said "Spindle RPM Control". I clicked on that, and the command line stayed blank, like it is an option I don't have.

3) I looked under "Help", and found my SB3 is running on software version 3.5.18. Assuming I should down-load the newest version, are there worries there, in that I have seen past posts where people complained about newer versions. Though I didn't note the issues, I just recalled it is an area that needs to be understood before diving in.

Any comments or recommendations?

Thank you again, Chuck

[Gary Campbell]

Chuck...
C5 or "Custom 5" is just that. A custom file, most likely made by the previous owner. It sounds like they cut (and zeroed) somewhere in the interior of the table and used the C5 to reset the coordinates.

To get a copy of the warmup routine, you will need to download a current version of the SB software and it (the C5) will be included. Thats the good news. Bad news is that you need to make a backup copy of your existing files, in case there were some that the previous owner made specifically for your machine.

OR.... double click on your existing C5 to open it in the editor. Delete all that is there. Copy Scotts code above and paste it into the open file. Good to go.

[bleeth]

The latest versions of SB3 have overcome the issues with the earlier that came between yours and the latest. The issues some were reporting then have been reported as non-issues now. I run a newer version and have had no problems with it.