New member, Needs machine recommendations.

[Speed_Freak_039A]

I dont know if this is in the correct section, if not please move it. Im new to the forum. Been drooling over a shop bot for awhile now.

Currently using a Torchmate 2x2, which is mainly a plasma cutting machine, but they sell a z-axis router attachment that I been using to route with. I also have a Widget Works pressure foot mounted up on it.

I mainly cut flat parts, to make assemblies, plates, parts, ect. I would eventually like to do 3D and artsie stuff.

For some info on my torchmate. It has no proximity switches, no zero plate, 150IPM X,Y Rapid, and 25 IPM Z axis Rapid. Router is a bosch colt 1hp. So setting up for a job is usually a pain cause of no good way to zero it, and guessing the z zero, ect. But the router seems powerful enough for what I am doing now.

I am looking at either the Shopbot Desktop, or the Shopbot Buddy 48. I would rather not spend the money for the bigger machine, but it does seem like the cats meow for routing. O, and my current machine cuts about 21x24 cutting area.

I like how the desktop has a supposed laser coming, and is very accurate. I like how the buddy has the pressure foot option. I use the pressure foot every time on my machine. It did not come with it and I struggled so much to cut thin stuff like .040 lexan, or even 1/16" lexan. So the fact that the desktop doesnt have it worries me. I called and a sales person said I could use the tab function to hold the small parts for moving during the last part of the cut, but the sheet will still vibrate up and down. What options are there to get around this? Or do I need to get the buddy? I like how the buddy can use a powerstick also if I get into big jobs and need to cut full sheets of plexiglass or poly.

I will also be using the probe sensor to trace parts.

Another problem with my 2x2, is the colt router has play side to side in the shaft if you push it a decent amount, I went and got a new one and its the same. the play like clicks back and forth maybe a 16th or less. But still thats enough. So if I got the desktop I would get the spindle. But the buddy because of the $1k for shipping and casters and router is like $10k. So no room for a spindle on the buddy, I would have to get the router.

I also dont like the idea of cutting off tabs and such. My current 2x2 leaves no burrs or tab pieces. The pressure foot holds everything till its done. 80% of the time there is no burr at the end of the cut.

Can you guys recommend or give some opinion here? I just smile watching the zero plate usage videos for these machines.

Here is my current machine:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ZhOBOVGTcJg/ToJdIB9Nc_I/AAAAAAAAAP8/kZONspWeniM/s640/2011-09-20%25252019.31.01.jpg

[gc3]

buy one $3-$5K over your budget...sell everything in the garage if that is where it is going and get at least a 48x96...you won't regret it

[myxpykalix]

check for sale/wanted section for used one also put wanted ad in

as gene suggests get the biggest one you can afford. by going too small u limit yourself greatly on what u can do. you will regret it later.

[kevin]

Dont upgrade side ways

Move up to larger machine so you can grow 4 by 96

That way you can do bigger projects

[cowboy1296]

i agree with the others, over buy just a little. mine is set up in my garage and is a buddy 32 with 4 foot power stick which is the most i have room for. so what size is too big for your shop?

to me the tabs are a blessing not a curse a little sanding on my wood projects and they are as smooth as i want.

naturally i would like a spindle too but the router is more then powerful enough for my projects. i am so close to using that money to buy aspire 3 and have to hide my credit cards every morning to prevent that purchase for now.

[Gary Campbell]

Nick...
Let the size of your projects or materials determine what size of machine you buy. And, like others say, many that have gone small, seem to find projects for a larger machine.

From your description, either machine will give you noticeable gains in accuracy and both will features, such as prox zeroing etc. Hold down is, was, and always will be an issue with small parts. The pressure foot is a good solution and if you choose the Desktop you may be able to adapt one to it.

If you dont need tabs now, I am sure you can figure a way not to need them on your new machine. As far as power, any one of the router or spindle options will be far more robust than the Colt you use now. Selecting one of the spindles will increase your cut quality substantially, based on the runout you posted.

Good Luck! and let us know what you order.

[Speed_Freak_039A]

Space wise right now is pretty tight. The BT48 would prolly just make it, and if a powerstick is needed then I would have to pull the car out till the job is done. The desktop obviously would fit just about anywhere.

Right now all my projects are pretty small. But like you guys say, Im sure once there is more room for cutting, then bigger projects will come. I just didnt wanna risk paying all that money and not be able to make it back or fast enough. I know the machine can do it, I read its all about being creative and such. And right now I got my line of products I make, but times are tougher these days and sales are down.

Sales told me due to the z axis design the pressure foot wouldnt work, my 2x2 has just a 3/8" flat bar for the gantry support for the z axis and I mounted the pressure foot and it works great. The z axis defenitly flexes some times or if you push on it. But not enough to show on my products yet.

If I start a actual business with it, I'd jump for the BT48. No spindle or alpha, just regular, I read it can all be added later on.

And with the pressure foot on my machine there is no need for sanding or tabs, it hold the parts solid. Should be required for CNC routers.

[Speed_Freak_039A]

Here is a link to my machine:
http://torchmate.com/products/torchmate_2x2/

[gc3]

"And with the pressure foot on my machine there is no need for sanding or tabs, it hold the parts solid. Should be required for CNC routers."

you will soon find out that this is not true...

[Speed_Freak_039A]

why do you say that?

[gc3]

why do you say that?

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11816&page=7

ck these parts and see why...

[Gary Campbell]

Nick...
A couple points of clarification.

SB sales is correct. In the OEM configuration the pressure foot does not bolt up to the Desktop. If asked, they would also have to say that it doesnt bolt up to your current machine. You adapted it to your current machine, I am sure you could adapt it to another. They can only recommend what they know fits "out of the box"

Like Gene, and thousands of others, I dont use a pressure hold down. We all use what has proven to work best for our situation. There are a good number using them, especially for small or thin parts. For Genes large 3D carvings, they would not work. Same goes for my sheetgood cutting. We dont think that they should be included on our CNC system anymore than you might think a large vacuum system should be included on yours.

[cowboy1296]

of all of the money that i have invested in my buddy, (including aspire as of today) i have yet to do anything about dust collection in my garage. so i am forced to move my truck and atv out. my dust collection is a shop vac and leaf blower. trust me there is no shortage of chips and dust.

i have found that a 30 inch industrial strenght wall mounted shop fan helps but it does not get it all.

BUT THERE AGAIN MY BUDDY IS A HOBBY IN MY RETIREMENT YEARS. ITS BEEN A MONTH SINCE I CUT ANYTHING.

[Brady Watson]

why do you say that?

Probably because when you get over the 'wonder and awe' of CNC cutting, you get a more critical eye...and what is acceptable today, isn't going to be acceptable quality tomorrow. As Gene & Gary pointed out - what about 3D? Plus, there are 2D parts and projects not suitable for use with a pressure foot. You'll find that out when you go to cut a particular shape and the scrap & parts get caught up in the foot - totally killing your machine to material 0,0,0 reference...as the sheet slides off the table :eek:

Pressure feet are great for a number of things...but if they were the silver bullet, only fools would waste thousands on a vacuum hold down system or use screws, clamps or adhesive to hold stuff down. You have much to learn grasshoppa!...but that's OK! 95% of the work involved in CNC routing is successfully answering one question: How am I going to hold this down?

-B

[Speed_Freak_039A]

I understand about the foot. Just going from just 4 clamps around my sheet on the corners, to the clamps and the pressure foot was a HUGE step. The sheet used to jump up and down, vibrate, parts get flung from the router once they were cut out, now they stay put. I understand it cant do everything and anything.

I was reading on this forum about people using I think corrugated plastic, with two layers of different tape then the material to hold pieces in place. Wouldnt it still vibrate up and down or is this method good for like the desktop bot? I usually cut from 18x24" sheets and cut anywhere from 10-100 pieces from that sheet.

The only thing that scared me away from the desktop is no pressure foot from the factory, of course like you said it could probably be mounted to it.

Thing is my current machine was bought to plasma cut, I did not intention to router with it, but once I started routing I seen I needed something else to hold the stuff down.

[Gary Campbell]

Speed...
I dont think that mounting the pressure foot on any machine would be more difficult than mounting a router on your plasma machine.

One thing I would mention is that there are advantages to the spindle when cutting plastics. The ability to slow the rpms down to increase cut quality is a must.

The Thread you refer to was written by Brady and a number are using the method with good success.

[Speed_Freak_039A]

Well the plasma manufacture made the z axis with the router, was a simple bolt on accessory. But the things that dont work very well are like the z axis speed is so slow, and there is no ramp plunge, unless I learn how to do bobcad if that will do it.

I read somewhere about a ramping plunge. Some of my items you can see where the bit sat too long going in or out of the cut.

Yeah I'd love a spindle, much less run out, adjustable speed with a low torque (I think), if I got the desktop I would get it fully done with the spindle. But the buddy 48 is already like $10k shipped so I would pass for now.