Pricing dilemma

[wowhuh.mike]

I was hoping you all would let me know your opinion on something I've been struggling with.*

It's when a customer brings me a piece of expensive or hard to replace material and wants it cut. If its a $350 sheet good and they want a bunch of little pieces cut out its one thing, but when they want one big circle is where my dilemma is. I don't want to risk having to replace the material for a job I can only charge say $100 for. I know my customer won't pay $400+ for a single part. Am I just being a wuss? *Should i just trust my skills and my machine then collect the money?? Or is there a point where the ratio of *material*cost to overall job price just isn't worth the risk?*

This isn't a specific example, but it is something that keeps coming up.*

Mike

[Rob Gunn]

Your not alone, I get nervous myself when I have an expensive sheet of material setting on my ShopBot. I always feel better when I take the time to do a air cut above the table away from the material. Or sometimes I will even test my tool paths in the cheap "big box store" blue foam board. Yes it means spending more cut time but the blue foam is very cheap and doing this extra step allows me to sleep better.:)

[garyb]

disclaimer on supplied materials ;)

[harryball]

That's always tough. I tend to avoid it. The problem is, once you cut one for someone they tell friends. Then you have a line of people at your door with expensive material that no one else will cut.

If this is your preferred mode of work, go for it. If it really starts to stress you out and it is not your focus, avoid it.

Disclaimers are great at controlling legal recourse but do nothing to protect against any number of other problems. Depending on the situation; lost friends, upset family, angry ex-customers, bad references and on the extreme don't forget a rock through a window or worse.

/RB

[Brady Watson]

Honesty is one of the better policies...Just be straight with the customer and tell them that with CNC, material hold-down is the majority of the work. You won't know how it is going to perform until you actually go to cut the parts.

When you DO go to cut the parts, don't program a whole sheet. Start off in a small group of them and see how it goes.

If you absolutely need things to stay put, The Vacuum Film Technique (http://talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11481) works well...but you need to charge for fixturing as tape ain't cheap...Masking tape (tan) works just as well or better than transfer tape. Carpet tape works in lieu of mounting tape.

I would shoot somewhere in the middle at around $250 for the sheet. I would also ask for a sample of the material to do a test cut.

-B

[knight_toolworks]

I get this a fair amount it is stressful and usually does not make much money.
things that help are a pen and or laser to check alignment. the laser to check if the piece is exact size and lined up the pen to draw on the sheet to make sure it is right. Making tool templates. that way you have the type of cut worked out and less chance of getting it wrong. Some prayer helps too. cutting a mdf sample if needed helps a lot too.

[myxpykalix]

I had a guy bring me a huge piece of 2" thick spanish cedar (I think) that he was going to hand carve way deep some type of large carving for a table top but wanted me to clear cut the first .25 to keep him from having to do it.

He said the material cost him around $350. I charged him a hundred bucks but first got some left over blue foam the same size and an the file first to test it out then substituted his material. It wasn't worth the stress as far as i was concerned, but i did tell him in advance that I could not afford to replace his material if something went wrong.

I think the proper thing to do is to explain the risks and that you can't afford to replace the material and let it be their choice to continue or go elsewhere.
BTW- the job went smoothly without a problem...:D

[wowhuh.mike]

So this particular job is basically a 36" circle with 12 one inch holes arrayed around a 12" radius. Material is an off brand version of Renshape (40lb foam) 3" thick. customer would have to glue to 20"x40" slabs together. Plenty of options for holddown, and I know it cuts like butter, but not sure I can get more than $200 for it. Just seems like its not worth the risk.

The last time this happened I originally estimated for cutting individual letters from 1/8" aluminum. Customer came back with 5'x10'x1/2" sheets (450lbs each) that had all letters bridged together into one part. It all came out great, but I was a mess for a week.

I hate to turn away work, but not sure this is worth it. Thanks for the two cents!

[wowhuh.mike]

I'll see if this works...It's a link to pics of the aluminum.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5sbqroxd785qiq5

Mike

[Brady Watson]

The problem with turning away work is that, if they find someone else, you no longer become their 'go to guy'. If you HAVE to turn work away, quote high & see what happens. Sometimes customers will go for it, other times they won't...but they'll still call you again in the future at a higher rate than if you just turn the work down.

Also...the more you take on the challenging work (your own inner dialogue makes it 'challenging'...nobody else does!) - the more you take it on, the more confident you will feel. The more confident you feel, the more work you will get and the more money you will make. I've found that most operators are chock full of skill & ingenuity - it's their lack of confidence that thwarts them.

Nice job on the AL, BTW.

-B

[bruce_taylor]

I have cut a fair amount of similar projects and I agree with Brady Honesty is a good policy. I just tell people how it is, if you want me to be responsible for the material then you need to pay the mark-up normally associated with supplying such material. If it's $350 worth of material then the job has to at least cover the liability, If I screw it up and replace it I make no money, but If I cut it successfully then I make great money. If they want to be responsible for the material then they can pay normal shop rate. If they can't understand/ agree then I shouldn't be working for them anyway. Keep it simple and be honest and you'll find plenty of good people to work for. Just my "two" cents (worth about a penny these days)