high school cabinetry closing

[cabnet636]

James Mcgrew (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1606742926)


I need your help

tuesday night i am going to speak at the board meeting for richland district two as the principle of richland northeast high school with one year of experience is moving to eliminate the auto and cabinetmaking programs and replace them with culinary arts at the high school level. this program has cnc machines and growth in students since its inception. any one in the columbia are...a who can attend i would appreciate it. this is not about any local area it is about all. this is about exposure to manufactiing and self made ingenuity, it includes signmaking, plastics, construction and the list goes on. if you could send me short emails on your thoughts, this will be graetly appreciated, i will submit them to the board

the students really need your help email to new2cnc@gmail.com

[myxpykalix]

This probably would be a good idea for all of us write an email maybe relating an account of how, now with the benefit of hindsight, and years of experience, we have benefited from the education we received from shop classes and how we have adapted that education which was the foundation of our woodworking abilities to now include computer skills and how now, they compliment and enhance each other.

(I learned something in english composition class too...:rolleyes:)

[cabnet636]

i need to confess that i have benn one algebra class away from my degree in institutional hospiltailty management for 30 years i was 3 credit horus away and went back into business woodworking

i am approaching this on an inclusion not an either or choice as we need education at all levels

[cabnet636]

This probably would be a good idea for all of us write an email maybe relating an account of how, now with the benefit of hindsight, and years of experience, we have benefited from the education we received from shop classes and how we have adapted that education which was the foundation of our woodworking abilities to now include computer skills and how now, they compliment and enhance each other.

(I learned something in english composition class too...:rolleyes:)

thank you this is the train of thought

[michael_schwartz]

I never had shop classes and nobody would let me near a woodworking shop, until I was an adult for liability reasons. That could have been a 4 year head start.

The scariest part to me is that these kids who grow up without shop class eventually buy a home end up acquiring power tools and have no training in their use or shop safety. These are fundamental life skills. One of my Doctors was telling me about the tables saw he just purchased. They don't teach you about that sort of stuff in med school.

In the area I live now most of the Highschools still have shop programs. Some of then are quite good and it is amazing to see some of the work these kids do.

Feel free to quote me and if there is anything I can provide for an email let me know.

[jerry_stanek]

Years ago they had a debate at what courses should be required in high school

shop and home economics
how to get a passport
how to change a tire
how do do income taxes
how to open a bank account
how to swim
how to apply for a job
how to balance a checkbook
first aid cpr and choking

There were other things but I can't remember them

[chiloquinruss]

Jim, you have mail! :) Russ

[cabnet636]

thank you all very much i know we share this !!

[bleeth]

I have practiced my trade in two parts of the country. In the Northwest (Seattle area) there were not only shop classes in high schools and tech schools but also had a cabinetmaking and boatuilding curricula school at which students graduated with an AA degree.
Where I am now, in South Florida, there are no such courses left.
In Seattle I was constantly hiring students out of the school and I found them motivated carpenters with good basic skills and computer literate. Many of the graduates from those programs went on to become business owners and managers.
In South Florida the typical apprentice has no skills and doesn't even know how to turn a computer on.
The modern shop class, when competently taught, teaches a multitude of skills that are applicable to many other areas. If a student can learn CAD/CAM then they can learn any program. When they graduate those who have a particular knack for it and couple their shop classes with higher maths have a fabulous grounding for engineering, something that is needed more and more in the marketplace and is being filled by those from overseas.
The custom furniture, signage, and other related businesses are still, and look to remain in the foreseeable future, good businesses in this country and helping to train our own children to enable them to take their place in those trades is not only good for them but also good for the country.

[jTr]

Regarding Industrial Arts education in schools:
I participated in metal and woodworking portions of industrial arts classes as I attended high school in the 80’s. After decades of different career moves, I never lost my appetite for the satisfaction of doing things for myself. My teacher, Phil O’Rourke instilled a great level of respect for the craft as well as the machinery. I was amazed to discover that he continues to teach wood shop classes in a town neighboring the high school I attended in Massachusetts. When seeing his name and contributions to the forum on Shop-Bot CNC’s, I was stunned, as I was considering and have since placed an order for my own machine. One day I’d like to email him directly, though I don’t expect he’ll recall me personally. I just find it amazing that the man continues to inspire kids and has embraced this latest form of technology . It took me several decades to enter into a woodworking career, but I can say I never forgot the foundation I learned in those classes. Just as I have discovered the importance of communication skills learned in English classes, mathematics, etc., those industrial arts classes have helped prepare me to grow into my passion for my current career. I received no degree, but was given an instinct for being self sufficient. I hope the latest generation of administrators does not discard this portion of education. I believe is essential to show kids that it really is OK to go to work and use your hands to do more than type and click a mouse – I’m crafting a very rewarding career thanks to those programs and especially those teachers who gave more to us kids than they may ever realize...

Sincerely,
Jeffrey T Roltgen
Roltgen’s Woodworks
jeff@roltgenswoodworks.com
www.roltgenswoodworks.com

[cabnet636]

thanks to all the support will matter !!

[Brady Watson]

Calling All Machinists (http://www.kanabco.com/vms/callingallmachinists.html)

Mike Rowe Asks Congress To Support More "Dirty Jobs" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NwEFVUb-u0)

-B

[cabnet636]

you are a good man brady watson !

[myxpykalix]

That was a great link, i enjoyed hearing his testimony that probably has a ring of familiarity in many of our own families. I knew as a teenager that I wasn't college material- (that's code for "I don't want to go to school anymore!")

We need skilled people to get back to a more diversified workforce with skilled labor:D

[kubotaman]

I have read all the responses and I have to admit that you guy's have impressed me with your responses! I took all the classes in the 60's which at that time were required. Unlike todays kid's a lot of them look to the computer for guidance. Too bad since there is a very large world out there. I too have looked back on some of my teachers and really wish I could thank them for what they did for me. I feel it is an absolute crime to forget kids that are not "college material" like most of us. There are a lot of kids that could do great things if they were guided correctly!

[michael_schwartz]

People take skilled trades and crafts for granted and confuse them with general labor. You have all had to deal with prospective clients who want you to work based on time and materials for $10.00 an hour because they are simply not aware what it takes to do what you do. Because of my ages they take one look at me and think I automatically work cheap but I don't and they are in for a surprise.

A good auto mechanic who knows what they are doing is a rare thing and what they do is just as important as any doctor or lawyer. My mechanic does a tech line and gets paid $2.00 a minute to tell other mechanics how to solve problems they cant fix.

And of course people will complain when their mechanic is not very intelligent and we keep telling our kids that they have to go to law school or get an engineering degree if they smart.

I would have gone to college if I could have found a degree I was interested in but I decided to spend the money on tools. A shop bot can cost less than a semester in college. Most kids who go to college slack off and play video games for at least a year. College is great if you can find degree your passionate about perusing but for many there are other paths of opportunity that require just as much dedication, and effort.

[cabnet636]

brady i posted on mike rowes forum (a must read) and recieved three response by email since 9:00 last night, all of your emails are great and i will share them when the time comes in your school district, keep sending them this has teeth

[cabnet636]

he is quite the activist and not just a show on tv

http://www.mikeroweworks.com/forums/

[englert]

I am also a late 60's product of high school industrial arts training. While I had a desire to be an Industrial Arts teacher, I didn't have the means. After 22 years in the Marine Corps, I seem to often revisit the skills I learned in high school. I've supervised the rebuilding of torque converters, which had metal lathes and a variety of welders, that I had to both use and train others on. I've used my high school drafting skills for personal use and at work. I later took CAD classes and then taught CAD for several years at the Jr. College level. The CAD training led to a job with a tool manufacturer designing router bits, shaper heads, sawblades and the like. Now, as the Training Manager for Thermwood Corporation, I've combined the skills from the Marine Corps (management, programming and planning), from other personal developments and my high school industrial arts (woodworking, electrical, drafting and metalworking) into what I could say was my ultimate goal of being an educator in Industrial Arts. Plus I could further add that high school typing is my most valued skill and in the 60s only the girls took that class. You can guess why my buddy and I took that class! My primary years were at Catholic school, where discipline was developed as well as the three R's.

When I returned to my hometown, I was stunned to find that my high school no longer offered those classes. It seemed that the different regimens were distributed to other high schools. So if you wanted welding, the high school student would have to drive 20 miles to another school that offered it. More kids on the road; just what we needed. Our school was and still is determined to and brags about being 100% college bound. The term "College Career" really gnaws at me. When did it become a career or the only option? What about industry and the military?

I live in Jasper, Indiana. The home of several major woodworking oriented industries and one very large automotive engine and transmission rebuilder. These industries have lost the valuable resource of fundamentally trained and qualified workers. The impact continues to be felt as these businesses shutdown for a variety of reasons, but workmanship is one of the key ingredients.

The factory job has for many years provided a reasonable income for many in this area. Not everyone can be a supervisor and not every one needs a college degree in business. The curriculum of our schools should be dedicated to preparing our youth for the real world with real jobs. While the culinary world seems to be up and coming as presented by HGTV and other programs, the one thing that seems to be hazed over in those programs is the median income of a cook. The celebrities may make good money, but if you want to be a cook, you might just have to do it for the love of it. Possibly, that could also be said for woodworking and many other career paths. But when our school system arbitrarily picks and chooses the career path that they'll support, it is a disservice for all.

I would urge the school administators not only to keep these programs, but to expand them. Let's help our children towards their goals and thus help our nation.

Semper Fidelis,
Dennis L. Englert

[kevin]

We have major projects here
This summer long harbour is in full swing they need 40 crane operaters at 38 dollars an hr .weilders etc. They already know there not going to fill all those jobs

But mills work for camps and offices is shipped off shore .Yet my shop is 45 mins away

In Laboudor city an apartment can cost 3000.00 a month

Mike Rowe is right but also remeber working in the wilderness is not for every one personel I don.t know if I could do it
In my area apartment if you can find one2 yars ago where 400.00 to 800.00

Canada is turning in the world supplier of minernal and oil a supper warehouse.
Guess where most of these raw material are going to are US friends no Asia

North America is losing

Kevin Dunphy
www.kdunphy.com (http://www.kdunphy.com)

[Brady Watson]

Thanks for the feedback, Jim.

It's up to the parents & students to voice their concerns about this sort of thing. They shut down metal shop, wood shop and even home economics in my hs 20 years ago. Seems parents and the school thought that everyone could be a doctor, lawyer or office worker. Not every kid wants to do that...and many of these office jobs have been farmed out overseas.

I've been all over the country and have visited both high schools and colleges that use a ShopBot in their curriculum. Some inherited the class against their will and don't put a lot of energy into it...BUT others run a first class shop and really leverage how a ShopBot can be used. In one school, they use the bot for cabinet/casework in their wood shop class - and they also use it to machine 3D relief mold masters for their metal shop class! They take the master pattern, sand cast it and pour molten aluminum into the mold to create metal parts! Pretty slick for a high school! Another uses a Bot in a mixed curriculum to create 3D models that go into a mini wind tunnel and then they analyze and tweak the model to get the desired coefficient of drag.

So there ARE some schools out there using this technology and really giving kids a practical education and foundation to build upon for the working world. Not all hope is lost...but it's up to the kids to speak up and let it be known that they don't want to be another cubicle rat. Unfortunately some of us have to 'try out the office thing' before realizing that it isn't what we were made to do. And that's where a lot of kids are - they don't know what they want to do and often pick whatever sounds good enough to get everyone off their back! ...and then they are 40, miserable and wonder how they got there. The world would be a better place if kids were told the whole story and we didn't adhere to the old stigmas attached to 'blue collar' jobs.

What is nice about running a CNC is that you get to use BOTH your brain and your hands - which for some of us, is as essential as breathing in order to feel satisfaction on a day to day basis.

-B

[waterwheelman]

About two years ago I read a great book on the subject of education in america and shop class. The title is: "Shop Class as Soulcraft: An Inquiry into the Value of Work" by Matthew B. Crawford. The book has some great insite into working with ones hands and at the same time challenging the mind. I think it should be required reading for all high school administrators in America. Our local schools have allmost completely eliminated wood shop class.

[danhamm]

"Quote" Brady...What is nice about running a CNC is that you get to use BOTH your brain and your hands - which for some of us, is as essential as breathing in order to feel satisfaction on a day to day basis.

A tilt of the hat to you Brady, you pretty much nailed it for me.

Its panic in the Province of B.C. Electritions, Plumbers, Machinists pretty much most of the trades are "old" and want to retire and there is no one to take thier place, the ones that have apprenticed, have left for the high paying jobs in the oilfields, you can't pick up a publication without adds for apprentices wanted, in the last 15 years the Education system has pushed for computer sciences and related fields and now we are paying the price.

[chiloquinruss]

"pushed for computer sciences", but the 'sciences' needed are NOT MS WORD or POWERPOINT! That's ALL our local HS teaches in computer 'science'!

In a past life (now retired) I was asked to do seminars on computers in industry. One of my last presentations was at UC Berkeley. There were 700 plus students in the auditorium for my presentation. The instructor, the young lady doing sign language for the hearing imparied, and myself were the only non Asian people in the building. US 'computer science' kids can't get into the UC prgram because they DO NOT have the credentials good enough to qualify.


What has this to do with shop classes? The remaining few GOOD shop classes today require computer skills that are NOT of the OFFICE variety. That is the simple answer. They require REAL computer skills and understanding. If a student can dream up a project, draw it out, put those ideas into a cad/cam piece of software, run a CNC machine, and hold in thier hands the finished project, I can guarantee you that the student GETS IT. Thier life will NEVER be the same. Russ

[gene]

I am a product of industral arts high school in the mid to late 70"s . Now i run a shop and have done woodworking for 30 + years. my biggest regret was that i never got the chance to thank my high school shop teacher. He taught me a lot of skills that have given me a pretty good living. i have done residential as well as commercial and industral work . We need more students taught at the least basic woodworking ,building maintance type work

[jdervin]

Given that something like half of all new restaurants fail in their first six months, a high school investing in culinary arts training -- presumably to help train the kids for jobs -- doesn't make a lot of mathematical sense. Especially when you say that the current industrial arts program is a working success. Sounds like someone's been watching too much Food Network lately.

It might also help to point out the learning outcomes from your courses ("learning outcomes" is a popular phrase among academic admistrators these days). For instance...


Studying computer-assisted tooling:

Provides students unique opportunities in critical thinking.
Helps students to develop analytical and problem solving skills.
Enables students to advance their aesthetic knowledge and sensibility.
Encourages students to strengthen discipline, organizational skills and self-confidence -- all capacities that can be applied to a wide range of professions including business, government, law, craft trades, and the sciences.
Offers capabilities to students with physical disabilities that simply can't be matched in other areas of study.
I'm sure there are many other benefits that could be added to this list.

Good luck!

[bob_reda]

Being a member of the building trades for the past 30 something years I have seen the numbers. Most union building trades average age is at least 55 years of age. We can not find people to enter our apprentinceship classes. In our local, 2/3 of our memebers are eligible to retire during the next 5 years. Our apprenticship is 5 years long with two nights of school and on the job training. we need people to replace them. This is a $30 an hour job with benefits. Total package cost is $55 per hour. We are starting to use computers in our field, but most is manual work, hard work. What happens in 5 years when we can't man jobs. First to go will probably be the electric because we can't man maintaining the power houses that generate it. Next the water supply, cause we can't maintain the water and waste disposal systems. And the list goes on and on. This has been a problem for the past ten years and unfortunately I don't see it changing, the maing thing they teach in school today is the "Test" so they can receive the "money". Just my .02 cents

Bob

[kevin]

Below these are the links for whats going on .
There no recesion here .Thats just the tip of the ice berg .This summer right across the street there making a oil rig at 2 billion Hebron



http://www.thepacket.ca/News/2009-04-16/article-1431486/Construction-begins-on-US-$2.2-billion-nickel-plant-in-Long-Harbour/1

http://www.iuoe904.com/

[cabnet636]

the meeting is at 7 on tuesday,, we have found out and recieved the minutes and documentation that the principle did not reveal her entire motive and course of action as she only requested new programs then fired the autobody and cabinetry shops the following week , we have a good amount of local business owners who will attend and the letters are great, i hope to show them to all once we make our case!!

[myxpykalix]

Remember this saying..."the squeaky wheel gets the grease".....So the more people who speak out gives a better concensus of what the community is thinking.
One of our local television news channels has a facebook page and when our local city council tries to do something hinkey with our money one of us gets on and raises the topic and you should see the responses and involvement by people in the community.

When our local "Occupy" movement started causing mayhem, i'm proud to say I and a few others were instrumental in getting them kicked out of our downtown park despite the cooperation of city officials.

The point of that story was to illustrate that many people might be willing to participate in your issue to show you support, even if it is from the point of a keyboard it would definitely have an impact especially if it is from local taxpayers.

If you have a local tv station get them involved in the story, show all the support and letters from us, complete strangers who have had this valuable education, and look for a local facebook page from your local tv station and get that topic started there or start a page yourself.

Forgive my memory, but Jim aren't you the guy who made the lifesize chess pieces? If you really want to make an impact take one of them to the meeting and show what you can do, or some of your best work as examples of what a good tradesman can make with this knowledge.

Now if you REALLY want to make an impact I would take some nice plaque you made in one hand and a order of McDonalds fries in the other and when you get up to speak conclude with...."You want fries with that?" :rolleyes:

[chiloquinruss]

I love Jack's suggestion on taking samples! Simply put the samples on a table in front of the board and ask them a simple question. With all of thier college degrees 'how would they make those objects'? My bet is they wouldn't have a clue.

My concern is that it is not just the wood related crafts but as pointed out by many here it is the loss of all 'hand' skills!

I wish you the best for your meeting. Russ

[michael_schwartz]

Samples are a good idea and then you have to talk about what it took to make them. People expect you to be able to crank out an entire dining room set in a day because Norm would build each piece in 20 minutes or less on PBS.

[paul_z]

CNC Programmer
LSI Manufacturing Solutions - Pennsylvania
See original job posting at MachineWeb, Inc. » (http://www.indeed.com/rc/clk?jk=1cb87343250160e3&from=vj)
Ref Code: LSI PA Mill

Employee Type: Full Time

Salary: $80,000 - $90,000


Compare that to a burger flipper!

[adrianm]

Even though I'm not in the 'States I enjoy reading Mike Rowe's website.

He has a lot of views (and concerns) similiar to those expressed in this thread.

http://www.mikeroweworks.com/mikes-office/

[cabnet636]

http://www.thestate.com/2012/01/24/2125465/woodworkers-to-protest-loss-of.html

[myxpykalix]

I read your other letter and sometimes it seems when an administrator gets an idea or attitude in their head there is no changing it. They talk about lack of interest in the programs however, if they don't promote it or expose them to it even for a part of a semester how do kids develop an interest?

If it doesn't change just let us know when the sale of the equipment is going to be, so we can come and take advantage of some bargains:eek:

If they have no concept of the value of the education, they have no concept of the value of the equipment!

[steve_g]

Let me start this rant by saying that I don't know any of the people involved here personally. My criticisms are directed at educators in general.

In the mid 70's, as a graduate student, I was assigned the "craft" classes of a professor who was taking a sabbatical. These classes were ones normally taken by "special education" majors or anyone looking for an easy credit. It didn't take much calculating to figure out that the three sections I was teaching with enrolment at about 5-8 each didn't pay my salary. I updated the curriculum to include all the current "hippy" crafts (macramé etc.) filled all the empty showcases on campus with my and my student's work, and gave extra credit to those students who would teach a lesson on a traditional family craft. 2nd quarter all sections were full and by third quarter extra sections and lab hours had to be added.

Students can be recruited... but the administrations tendency to shuffle "problem" students to these classes and giving everyone else the idea that "Big Money" can be made playing on computers all day hasn't helped. An unintended consequence of this practice was that the classes became a meeting of the gangs, driving away good instructors and students. Good instructors also left when all forms of discipline were removed, effectively tying their hands. I left when I could make more money during the summer months than I could all school year... my family was growing.

Due to the climate fostered in classrooms by administrative decisions, the "liability" argument may be valid... In our part of the country, vocational classes are taught at the community college level where the students are legal adults with consequences for actions and they have a financial investment. I don't see this changing any time soon...

One last comment... when I graduated 40+ years ago I was given a "lifetime" teaching certificate... Technology has changed the vocational arts more in the last 40 years than in the last 400 years. Educators who didn't keep current are part of the problem of student disinterest. If I were still teaching and hadn't kept current... I would be teaching students the proper technique for holding sloyd knives!

Am I wrong?

Steve

[cabnet636]

i got a dose of some of my republican friends views last night and may rethink some of my own, this was difficult for me the smoke and mirrors used in this process is really apparrent to me now. i will post more later as we will go back. i posted some comments on the you tube video the support from this forum, industry and the local parents was 100% yet there is still a good old boy network to deal with in southcarolina

this is the direct emails for the board if you contact them do so for all of them, http://www.richland2.org/content.aspx?id=520

this is the emails for Dr. joe Watson and Sabrina Suber the principle and director initiating this action

http://www.richland2.org/schools/RNH/content.aspx?id=28041

this is some local coverage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q_eXX6DFa4&list=HL1327503488&feature=mh_lolz

[CNYDWW]

A thought just rang out in my head after I had browsed through the last few posts. What about changing the projects. Instead of simply doing cabinet making, how about adding in a mobile electronics project. Speaker boxes for subwoofers and the like. Custom speaker grills milled on the machine. Add in basic wiring skills and getting the auto shop involved with it as well. With the autobody, bring in customization. Custom interior parts and panels milled and painted etc. If the budget is there, custom body kit installation. I'm younger and all we had was technology courses and nothing like the traditional woodshop etc. Special mechanics wasn't too bad but it was small engines and agricultural equipment. In NY we do have Boces which is half day vocational school. It's where i got my start in CADD. They didn't however, have a woodworking or cabinetry class. Just basic rough carpentry. You might also find some support through VICA ( Vocational Industrial Clubs of America). They are a large organization that holds competitions for secondary and post secondary vocational students. I happened to be part of a three man team that went to the National Skills Competition two years running in Kansas City, MO. for Automated Manufacturing Technology. We didn't even complete the national competition either year simply due to the lack of experience with software. Both years I got my hands on mastercam two weeks before the competition for nationals with no instruction. Had to learn on the fly. Regional and state were using simple G code and didn't even have a machine to run till on the state level. I honestly don't know if they could help with this but it's worth a try.

[Towersonline]

Here in Maine by one estimate we have over 5,000 unfilled jobs. These are mainly in the skilled trades sector. Welders, carpenters, electricians and the list goes on. Some of the companies are even willing to train.

I think that young people today are not motivated or willing to explore new opportunities. As an example I was working on a ShopBot at a nearby High School for most of a day. Only one student was interested enough to see what was going on! The impression I was left with is that the students were there to get their project done and move on.

How do we motivate these young people?

BillT

[cabnet636]

i am preparing an email and some video about what we do here with our machines, the intent is to win over the inexperienced hearts and minds

[steve_g]

Bill

How do we motivate these young people?

My point earlier was that in the 70's it was the hippy arts that motivated students to take my class. I think Randy is headed in the right direction with his thoughts...also Robotic courses are very popular, robots are not all electronics, a full range of skill sets are necessary to complete one.

Students can be motivated... we have to find what it is. The sight of a ShopBot motivates me, young people take CNC and computers for granted, they have always been around as far as they are concerned. Time for educators to wake up and find what it is that is new and exciting today!

Steve

[cabnet636]

yall have no idea how greatfull i am for the support on this, the letters and emails post on foru,s is in the thousands and we have been able to garnish attention from local politicians, there is a discussion on this locally inwhich one person feels this is old school and we should move on.

what do you think you are welcome to join

Citizens for Better Government in Richland 2 (https://www.facebook.com/groups/234596306576057/)

[chiloquinruss]

"there is a discussion on this locally in which one person feels this is old school "

I just watched a very good program on tv where a group of folks (all with lots of college degrees) were trying to figure out how some 'old school' folks built the pyramids! :eek: Russ

[Brady Watson]

I just watched a very good program on tv where a group of folks (all with lots of college degrees) were trying to figure out how some 'old school' folks built the pyramids! :eek: Russ

Russ...Aliens built the pyramids...Everybody knows that! :D

-B

[gene]

Jim,
The best way to tell if a politician is telling a lie is to watch and see if his (or her) lips are moving. rest assured it will be a lie or a half truth. If you catch them in a lie ,then its that you misunderstood them. what will happen when we all are too old to do this type of skilled work. If the younger people do not get taught who will do it? I commend you for fighting this up hill battle. You can try the politically correct way BRIBE THEM !:eek:

[Brian Harnett]

I am so glad I had a cabinet making Vocational class when I was in school, no computers then 1979-82 but I found what I loved. They had a machine shop also I used to drop in on that class on my free periods the teacher was glad to have me just because I was interested

Been doing woodworking since besides 4 years in the army, started at one shop that was fairly new, no one had formal furniture training within 6 months I was designing furniture. Two years later we got our first Cad program and really took off.

Did cad for about ten years before we got a Shop Bot, unfortunately the company got top heavy so I left getting my own bot in 2004.

People are all different some of us need to be using our hands to feel accomplishment, it is a shame how many schools are dropping shop class.

[cabnet636]

Here in Columbia SC we are seeing the end of Cabinetmaking, Shop and industrial Sciences in public education, the reasons that are stated are statisical while no efforts have been made in years to support these programs by the school boards and administrations, In the last school board meeting one of the members stated " we saw the end of plumbing then electrical. it is just time for the rest of it to go" he went on to say that the district had made marketing effortd for these programs yet there is no evidence of this. the school was notified of OSHA safety problems in these classes yet again no effort was done to correct.

i was asked recently who my "Group" was ? they feel i am on my own here yet i have recieved thousands of emails and support from our industry, and you fellows, the Carolinas AWI chapter has offered financial and voluntary support. this is falling on deaf ears. i need you to forward this email to any one who may have a comment about our industry. and its relationship to public industrial and vocational programs. the email addresses of those who will make these decisions are listed. they need your support.


Trustees


The Honorable Calvin "Chip" Jackson M.P.A., Chair (http://www.richland2.org/WorkArea/linkit.aspx?LinkIdentifier=id&ItemID=15650)
Term: 2008-2012
Phone: 803.647.5166
E-mail: calvin.jackson@bwcar.org (calvin.jackson@bwcar.org)
The Honorable Susan Brill, Vice Chair (http://www.richland2.org/WorkArea/linkit.aspx?LinkIdentifier=id&ItemID=11856)
Terms: 2006-2008; 2008-2012
Phone: 803.788.8516
E-mail: sbrill@sc.rr.com (sbrill@sc.rr.com)
The Honorable James Manning, M.A.T., Secretary (http://www.richland2.org/WorkArea/linkit.aspx?LinkIdentifier=id&ItemID=30129&libID=29868)
Terms: 2010-2014
Phone: 803.386.8242
E-mail: jamesmanningsc@gmail.com (jamesmanningsc@gmail.com)
Website: www.jamesmanningsc.com (http://www.jamesmanningsc.com/)
The Honorable Melinda Anderson, R.N. (http://www.richland2.org/WorkArea/linkit.aspx?LinkIdentifier=id&ItemID=11842)
Terms: 1990-1994; 1994-1998; 1998-2002;
2002-2006; 2006-2010; 2010-2014
Phone: 803.419.1377
E-mail: spenand4@aol.com (spenand4@aol.com)
The Honorable Stephanie Burgess, Ph.D. (http://www.richland2.org/WorkArea/linkit.aspx?LinkIdentifier=id&ItemID=11850)
Terms: 2004-2008; 2008-2012
Phone: 803.530.9899
Pager: 803.690.1294
E-mail: scburgess@aol.com (scburgess@aol.com)
The Honorable Bill Flemming Jr., D.M.D. (http://www.richland2.org/WorkArea/linkit.aspx?LinkIdentifier=id&ItemID=11854)
Terms: 1994-1998; 1998-2002; 2002-2006;
2006-2010;2010-2014
Phone: 803.261.1992
E-mail: billflemming@sc.rr.com (billflemming@sc.rr.com)
The Honorable Barbara Specter (http://www.richland2.org/WorkArea/linkit.aspx?LinkIdentifier=id&ItemID=11848&libID=11610)
Terms: 2002-2006; 2006-2010; 2010-2014
Phone: 803.429.8084
Email: bspecter@sc.rr.com (bspecter@sc.rr.com)

Katie Brochu, Ed.D.
Superintendent

kbrochu@richland2.org (kbrochu@richland2.org)

Sabrina Suber (http://cavplex.richland2.org/Teacher%20Information/Administration/Sabrina%20Suber.html), Principal ssuber@richland2.orgMargaret Schilit, Assistant Principal maschilit@richland2.org Joe Watson, Ed.D., Assistant Principal jwatson@richland2.org Latoya Goodwin - Gary, Assistant Administrator lagoodwin@richland2.org (tfootman@richland2.org) Tiffany Ligon, Assistant Principaltligon@richland2.org

[Ajcoholic]

Things are not any better here in Canada. Young, smart kids who express some interest in trades are seldom encouraged to pursue them. Instead, the "guidance" counselors push them towards high priced University. It happened to me - I was pretty good in school, and they pushed me to go to University (where I killed three years in maths and science) before I wised up and went to college to follow my calling of working in the wood industry.

The high schools around me don't do a good enough job of promoting what a viable career in any trade can offer - not just a decent wage, but a way to keep your mind and body in shape, and also satisfaction of being creative, etc.

It is a shame, many young people would probably love to have a chance to learn something like woodworking. But they continue to cut back... been happening here since I was in school in the 1980's.

AJC

[jhedlund58]

Here Here.... nicely said... to me the schools give them the very basics to go to another school.... trade or otherwise. gotta follow your hart and be happy what your doing... so many people not happy in their work!!! NOT ME

[cabnet636]

http://www.thestate.com/2012/02/12/2149526/advocate-for-high-school-cabinetmaking.html

[cabnet636]

and responding to those who send them thanks fellows!!

here is my statement on tue night

I intend to ask this board to give opportunity for a comprehensive effort by the school, the teachers and the public. with the ambiguity of whether these programs were marketed, supported being called into reasonable doubt without any supporting documentation it is time to move past this. i would ask this board to move forward with the health sciences program as proposed, Richland Northeast has the room and support this program should not be held up by any measure. I have requested a meetting with Mrs Suber and as of today have not recieved a response, I am including a copy of this request that was sent last monday.

In Cabinetmaking we cannot proceed without a plan, we have ethics and principles which guide us to success on behalf of our clients, these include " Failing to Plan is Planning to Fail" in the same way a contract or construction plan is a roadmap to success i would believe the same is true in education. to give comprehensive planning to the CATE programs at RNE will either provide success or allow for all to participate in the removal of the programs if after intentional efforts by all they are not viable.



Mr. Jackson stated that "the challenges we face in this district require us to come together not only as a Board but as an entire community to look for cooperative ways to work together to try and resolve issues, and that he is excited for the opportunity and the spirit of cooperation he is seeing throughout the district. He further stated he worked for 12 years at the Trident Technical College in Charleston, South Carolina and had direct responsibility for programs so he does hear loud and clear the concerns of the people who are speaking from that perspective." (Richland 2 Meeting January 24 2012) I believe this statement will lay the groundwork for facing the hard work it will take to find the common ground in the interest of the Students, the School and the District. the potential of increase in dropouts and expulsion is also a viable problem given that 160+/- of the students affected are minority in background and the probability for replacement interest in the new programs is low. this is a narrow path to take without serious consideration.



This is an Excellent opportunity for the school and the district to face some hard problems, with the interest generated it seems wise to take the high road and show the students, as well as the public at large that this can be faced in a cooperative way and if solutions can be reached and expanded then all winners and if not then it shows the willingness to try, there is no greater message to a young mind than leaders who know they tried their best.



In a spirit of cooperation everybody succeeds, in division somebody loses. In the case of Richland Northeast my prayer is it is not the students, any of them

[myxpykalix]

Sounds to me like she's already made up her mind that she doesn't want this program to continue and is fighting your proposal all the way. It sounds like she is bringing her own personal bias's to bear.
It might be because she's a woman she has more of an affinity toward "cooking class" and doesn't understand. An analogy is most little girls like to play with dolls instead of baseball bats. I wonder if the attitude would be the same if it was a man in that position?

[cabnet636]

the response in the last two days has been phenominal, home builders assc. cefga.org (this is cool)

[cabnet636]

went well tonight there is some grounded hope !! more later

[chiloquinruss]

James, I don't know how familiar you are with Maker Faire but here is another avenue to investigate. My first exposure to Maker Faire was a couple of years ago when ShopBot hosted a user group meeting just prior to the Faire. My wife and I were walking around and noticed the admission sign. It said $35 per person! The parking sign said $17 per car! I turned to my wife and said boy this is going to be giant disaster! Well as usual I was as wrong as wrong can be! 35,000 poeple paid those fees! The next year the crowds were so big that the local freeway was shutdown for a couple of hours as people flocked to the event.

Now heres the important part for you, the entire purpose of Maker Faire is to exhibit any hobby or craft where folks MAKE something. From experimental aircraft to robots to cnc machines to homebuilt pinball machines to . . . . . . If there is no interest in shop type education then somebody needs to wake up and smell the roses! Russ

http://makerfaire.com/

[steve_g]

I like where Russ is going... Maybe we're calling our courses the wrong things! "Entrepreneurial studies", "Business ownership 101", "Inventers techniques and tools", "Understanding Industry"... These are in fact accurate descriptions of classes that teach process! Even the most basic course can be described as "Relaxation methods of the successful Industrialist!

Steve

[taskins]

Glad to hear you made some progress! I agree with the above- it could all be in the name. Here at Wando High they call the class Intro to Engineering - and it stays full.

[cabnet636]

On a vote of 7 to 0 the board has terminated the Cabinetmaking program at RNE,

[zeykr]

Sorry to hear that. Hopefully the kids will be happy with their Mcdonalds careers.

[bcondon]

I have available a complete metal working shop (miller, lathe, power saws, drill press with ALL the asseories for each) and I can not find any sort of night school to be more effective with the equipment. It is not the basic equipment, but how to properly sharpen cutting tools, what materials for what, etc...

I always had a wood working shop which I love dearly but would like to gain enough skills in metal work also.

My Dad was one of the best machinists around, working for Indy 500 cars, space shuttle, lunar lander plus lots of medical devices being designed by MIT students... Damn I wish I talked to him more...

Bob

[myxpykalix]

Bob,
Kind of reminds you of this........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJPDr56_5l0&feature=fvst

[rcnewcomb]

Heard this story on the radio today about the need for people with CNC skills:

Meet The Machine That Makes Most Of The Things In Your Life (http://www.changinggears.info/2012/03/14/meet-the-machine-that-makes-most-of-the-things-in-your-life/)

[chiloquinruss]

Gosh do you think a cnc operator makes more money than the guy at Mac Donalds does? :eek: Russ

[myxpykalix]

Some days i don't make minimum wage...hmmm
maybe i should practice..."You want fries with that?":D