Boxjoints and dovetails on the Shopbot

[myxpykalix]

I started this thread so as not to divert from another thread and get more direct info here. Dan posted this picture over there and this is something that i have not had any real success in (making dovetails and boxjoints on the bot) and Dan and Monty and others if you could share a little more detail, maybe some pictures or files on how you set your up to cut I would appreciate it much.

I recall some time ago gary had a dovetail file and a tutorial and i recall trying that and didn't have success (because of me, not his tutorial). For me I am the kind that learns better firsthand and seeing how someone does it because if i read something and don't understand it, i may do it incorrectly and then get flustered.
So any of you who have mastered making doetails and boxjoints on the bot please post some pictures of your jigs and finished projects and some details because i have some questions.:confused:

[MogulTx]

My current method is on many many pieces of poplar to make large, flat, deployable crates for a product that my company sells. The crates must be strong, and so I was going to use plywood and dovetails.... that did not work out for me.. so I went to the poplar! It does not tear out like the plywood.

Because of the length of the sides, I built a stand to put a PC dovetail jig onto- but definitely wanted to go to using the Bot if I could... and my issue is that, if I have a 1/8" bit (.062" Bit Radius) then I have to have the corresponding round overs in the faces ( so that they mate at the 90 intersection) as WELL as the "face on" dimension of both parts.... I can't envision any scenario ( without the 5 axis router that Ryan and I looked at together at ShopBot 2 weeks ago!) that would allow me to do a non-3D type of cut... IF I do not do the traditional tenons for a box-type joint- using the traditional means....

Are you guys able to see something I am not? It really looks like Dan is using the V Carve or 3D methods for doing the panels and then upending them and putting into a clamp to process with the end of the wood in the same plane as the rotating spindle...

Thanks,

Monty

[myxpykalix]

I don't understand, or in other words, can't visualize what you are describibg. Do you have any pictures of the problems you encounter?

Do i understand that you are trying to do the toolpath in a 3d carving with a 1/8th" bit? That would take forever, it would seem you would want to use a regular dovetail or endmill for the various joints? Maybe i'm confused:confused:

[billp]

Does this help anyone?
http://www.shopbotblog.com/index.php/2008/08/dovetail-and-mortise-jig/

[danhamm]

Jeeez, you guys got me confused..lol..actually its a 1/16 tapered carving bit from Gary.. i use it to clean up the corners after cutting with a 3/4 in end mill.. 2 files one for the precut with the end mill then one for the small tapered 1/16 carving bit.. the wood is up 3/4 in. off the table so theres lot of room to play...
Leave the finish edge on the bottom...as the small tapered bit leaves a cut thats looks as if it was DONE vertical..

I have a end table vice for shorter stuff but for anything longer than 30 inches it has to be done as above.. unless you go with what Bill has shown above...

[MogulTx]

Dan,

Thanks for that.... 1/16 might be small enough for me to work with, but I have not seen one that is long enough to reach from my collet to the bottom of a 3/4" deep cut out... I will go do a search on the name you mentioned to see what I find. My two sides of my boxes will be more than 31.5+ L and 53.5+L each, x 5" high. So I do need to do them flat n the table...

Jack- I had the box joint (as I envisioned needing to cut it) all drawn out with the radiused corners and all--- and my laptop did an update of Windows 7, and shut down on me without getting to a save point! DOH! That took about a couple hours out of my life that I can't get back! I will see about drawing it again, but Dan's idea seesm like something we ( I ) should try>

Monty

[danhamm]

Monty, the bits can be found at, Beckwith decor products.
and they are long enough..they are amazingly durable...

[billp]

Monty,
As Gary Beckwith will be at next week's Austin Camp you can speak to him and get ALL the info regarding these bits. He might even have some with him....

[MogulTx]

Thanks Dan and Bill !!

[garyb]

Thanks Dan & Bill
Monty as Bill said I will be at the Austin Camp next week and be happy to answer your questions. In the mean time if you need the specs on the tooling you will find them at the bottom of bdp cutter page located here (http://www.beckwithdecor.com/index_files/Cutters.htm) or you can call or email me.
Gary

[danhamm]

Just for you Jack, another box cut...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KMvt4fsYD8&feature=channel

[myxpykalix]

Come on Dan you can't just post a video without details!:D It would have been better without the dust collection :) but I now have a bunch of questions!

Do you have any pictures of your clamping system?

Here is what i am a bit confused by...On Garys setup he cuts both the tail and the slot like a traditional dovetail jig, however your setup looks like you cut one piece at a time.(I might be mixing that up with dovetails).

My question is, in your toolpathing it moves from each joint cutting in 3 passes then moves to the next one, ect.
How are you programming the 3 depth pass per joint rather then what i thought the toolpath might do by cutting the first pass on all joints, then cutting 2nd pass on all joints, ect.
How did you program or create your toolpaths?

Like if you were putting the wood in a traditional jig you would have each piece offset from the other when cutting. How did you program the offset?

Thanks for going to the effort of making the video you're :cool:

Oh yeah, the most important question....who is "KnottButt"?

[Coleman Becker]

I found files of digital wood joints that can be cut on the Shopbot all different styles and types frame joints, board joints, and carcass joints. i attached one of the pdf's here if you want the hole file pm me and i will send it to you.

[adrianm]

It's been posted several times over the last couple of years but in case anyone missed it.

http://www.flexiblestream.org/Digital-Wood-Joints-001.php

Downloads of the files is on the top right of the page.

[danhamm]

Jack, "Knottbutt" is a fool who doesn't fly south with the rest of the geese in the winter.

The cut file is as simple as making a 2 inch line and duplicating it in the vertical every 1.5 inches for a 3/4 bit and sending it to v-carvepro to cut on line at .25 depth.. and (thats it) except you have to make 2 files one offset 3/4 of and inch for them to fit together..
and z-zero to the top of the material..

Oh yah.y clamping device you can see in the video...2 clamps holding the wood ...not high tec like Garys...but works just fine..

[danhamm]

I went and looked at Garys video, Jack he's making cabinet drawers...that joint "in my opinion" doesnt look so good on boxes...

[garyc]

Jack...
What you may have missed in the column is that my code can be changed on the fly to accomodate any of the joinery methods that the Porter Cable Jig could produce. A link is made to the manual for you to look over that manual.

This project, by design, as geared more to one offs than production, but does allow parametric adjustments to the joinery on the fly. Using a straight bit, or bits of varying widths, any number of joints should be able to be cut. The video shows 4 pieces being cut at 1 time, but 2 of a much longer width could also be cut.

My original jig was designed to allow adjustment of the offset between mating surfaces. This adjustment varies with each type of joinery. Most of these options have adjustments and I hope they were explained well enough to be understood. Now that you have a project, take another look. Sometimes learning needs to be project driven.

[myxpykalix]

Gary,
Sometimes learning needs to be project driven.

You are correct. I just read part of the instruction and then i tend to get lost when i don't understand. I need to go thru it slowly as I do each step and the "next step" may make sense once i finish the previous step.

I just figured the shopbot was smart enough to figure out how to do this stuff without me:confused: lol

[danhamm]

Jack, what steps are troubling you..practice makes things easier waste some wood..
for trial and error you can clamp a 2x6 to the outside of your table legs for the vertical..if your track is long enough to reach it that is..
and then clamp a piece of one inch board in it..and waste it playing..?
I can get quite a few pieces in my clamp 6 pieces 3/4 in. 24inches wide..x two..

some more pics for you