Gear creating software

[Brian Harnett]

I been using this program for a few days, it works very well the download version was 26.00 well worth it, the interface is very easy it will create quite a few gear types and chain drives.

I was able to export a dxf and go right to cutting without any file cleanup.

Link http://woodgears.ca/gear/index.html

A few examples of what I have cut.
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l249/brianharnett/misc1/IMG_2331.jpg
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l249/brianharnett/misc1/IMG_2332.jpg

[tuck]

Gears are fun. Here's a set I did last year. The drive motor is a 3rpm microwave turntable motor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj9Xtw1Goio&context=C36b6dcbADOEgsToPDskIw1x2flKtJayUy3glECFP7

...and here's a prototype of another set I was working on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=ZWoprtB_7zE

Some of the working examples you can find on youtube are astounding! Check this guy out. He's in Australia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--GzAChLSz4

[shoeshine]

I'll also give a shout out to "Gearotic Motion" I have bought the full versions of both.

http://www.gearotic.com/

and @ Mark: what kind of torque do you get from a micro table motor? Thats a great source of low cost, low RPM motors I hadn't considered.

[tuck]

Chris,...those little motors have an amazing amount of torque. Connecting them to the drive gear can be a little tricky but yes, these motors are readily available in various RPM's for not a lot of money and they are quiet. Most of the noise you hear from a typical microwave oven comes from the fans.

The fellow in Australia (Brett Dickins), uses motors from old VCR/VHS players. I haven't seen one of those in 10 years.

[shoeshine]

Thanks Mark, off to the salvage yard...

I am assuming these are typicaly 120v AC motors? or are they stepped down DC? (I'm sure I will find out, just thinking about power supplies)
..And nice thought too on VCR's, though I dont think I've seen one of those for a while either. Note to self: drop by goodwill.

[chiloquinruss]

Chris that second one from Austrailia looks like something you would come up with! :) Russ

[tuck]

Chris - I always look for the 120v, preferably with a metal drive shaft and not plastic, although the plastic ones may be fine I dunno. The shafts are short, about 1/2", typically 1/4" diameter with a "D" profile. Ideally, you'll want the little plastic cog that slides over the shaft and fits in a pocket under a glass microwave turntable, and the cogs can be hard to find. Here's a motor on ebay that comes with a cog, but the seller is not very descriptive about the motor itself: http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMANA-MICROWAVE-TURNTABLE-MOTOR-W10192483-MM-/270771030392?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0b360978

(Usually on ebay they don't come with the cogs.) What I have done before is to fasten the cog to the back of the drive gear with some small screws then slide that over the drive shaft of the motor.

Goodwill would be a good resource for the entire oven. I bought a nice one there for $10.00, then proceeded to dismantle it and ended up with the motor and the cog.

[blackhawk]

Mark and Chris - Come on now about the VCRs. They are not that antiquated!:) I still use mine 2 or 3 times a week to record TV shows, no kidding. The VHS blank tapes are getting hard to find though.

I also don't text with my cellphone. It doesn't even have a qwerty pad.:eek:

Makes me wonder how I ever came to own a Shopbot. :rolleyes:

[jhedlund58]

u can still get vcr blanks at radioshack

[CNYDWW]

TV Tuner in the laptop. Record my shows that way:D

[tuck]

I also don't text with my cellphone. It doesn't even have a qwerty pad.:eek:


I don't even have a cellphone! :D

[shoeshine]

OK sorry to hijack this thread, but...

Mark, I went down to goodwill today and scored a breadmaker. Sweet motor in a good low profile mount and easily adaptable shaft.

I am assuming it is pretty high torque, as it runs the dough hook.

Problem is that I know nothing about appliance wiring.

I can trace the hot and neutral from the plug to the control board.

Problem is that coming out of the control board is a three wire plug to the motor w/ red blue and white wires.

Any info on what this is? I have tried, and my Google-Fu is weak today. I am more confused that when I started. Very little info on the motor plate. (part #, 120v AC 60hz, and an inspection sticker) No hits on the part #. My best guess so far, is that it is a capacitor start motor. Is there any way to easily wire this thing up to run a kinetic sculpture? (Let me add that my knowledge of electronics is basic at at best)

Thanks
Chris

[tuck]

Chris - we're in the same boat. I can do very basic wiring and that's about it. I'm askeered of electricity. Can't see it, smell it or hear it, and it can put a hurtin' on ya. You might take it to an appliance repair shop and ask someone.

Sounds like a good motor though! I once used a motor from a machine that would spin hot pretzels on display and it worked great. However, that was 25 years ago and I had cut all of my gears out with a jig saw. Careful as I was, the teeth never would align properly and that kinetic wall sculpture ended up in the landfill. Wish I had kept the motor! :(

[shoeshine]

Right on Mark, Thanks.

Maybe someone a little more electronics/mechanical saavy will chime in.

just to pretend I know what I'm doing... I put a multimeter on it and got some readings if this will help anyone identify this thing.

[myxpykalix]

I'm askeered of electricity. Can't see it, smell it or hear it, . You forgot to say..."but you damn well can FEEL it!"

I haven't been "askeered" of anything since i was about 10...lol, that brought back some memories:)

How bout using a rotisserie motor from a outdoor cooker? I recall when i was young we had a outdoor cooker that you scured(?) your meat to and hung this motor above the cooker and it rotated it.

[hh_woodworking]

Bread makers have two speeds in them one for mixing and the otther for kneading the bread. It is just a guess but 3 wires 2 speeds

[myxpykalix]

Chris,
Since you seem to be the "guru of gears"...(Nemo Door) I have been watching a few of the gearotic motion tutorials and he demo's it in mm's and i wondered if it had a selection for inches?
I had downloaded the demo some time ago and frankly got lost in the interface. I need to go back and start over. Is it pretty easy to just create a simple set of say 3 or 4 meshing gears like was pictured here previously?:confused:

[Brady Watson]

Unless you need more than 1/2 horsepower, there is absolutely no advantage to using an AC motor. They have the highest danger...and the lowest usefulness. You should be fooling with DC motors and controls until you have a need for more horsepower. You can get DC motors in all shapes sizes and power bands from tiny ones that run on batteries to 2 or more horsepower treadmill motors. They are easily controllable.

If you just want something to consistently turn a geartrain for display purposes, then just buy a synchronous timing motor. They are like $20 or less, run on straight AC and are pegged to the Hz of the current, for consistent slow RPM. Being a little more scientific when it comes to your motor selection will help in the long run...How much power do you really need? How fast does it have to turn? What form factor/size does it need to be? Do you need to vary the RPM?

-B

[dana_swift]

Chris - on you ohm-meter readings.

That does not give enough information to identify how to use the motor. If the motor has a part number on it you can look up, that helps a lot.

It is most likely an AC motor, the best way to know for certain without documentation is to run it in the microwave before you remove it and see how its driven. Be absolutely sure you have disabled the magnetron before attempting this!

My approach to using salvaged parts is to "see how it worked for them". By watching the signals on an oscilloscope until I understand what is happening. Then hook the thing up in a circuit that works the same way and it will do the same thing for me.

The ohm readings show two series coils inside the motor, are those an AC drive for two possible voltages? Or a two phase bipolar drive from a microprocessor? (Think sin-cos variable speed drive). [The latter isnt very common so the first option is most likely].

What I would do without any more information is hook it up to a 12v transformer and see if it runs. Its low enough voltage to not burn it up if its not going to run. With 80 ohms coil resistance it makes me think its probably a low voltage unit.

If you burn it out it didn't cost a whole lot. Let us know.

------

Brady - WTF?:


Unless you need more than 1/2 horsepower, there is absolutely no advantage to using an AC motor.

And warn about them being dangerous, followed by a recommendation to use an AC motor as having the best advantage:


If you just want something to consistently turn a geartrain for display purposes, then just buy a synchronous timing motor.

Clarify please.

[Brady Watson]

Dana,
Aside from you, I doubt anyone fooling with salvaged motors in this thread has a scope, let alone the knowledge on how to properly use one!

An off the shelf $23 AC synchronous timing motor that just needs to be plugged in, is a heck of a lot safer than monkeying with hacked AC components. You just plug it in. Done. No need to get under the hood & tinker.

If someone just has tinker - DC is safer and easier to understand for people new to electric motors, provided that you are running at a lower voltage potential than AC. A 12 or 24v little motor is not going to throw someone across the room if they make a mistake while tinkering. This is why children's 'learn electronics' kits don't come in a 120v AC version :rolleyes:

-B

[tuck]

Brady - I googled "synchronous timing motors" and they look amazingly similar to the microwave turntable motors I've been yacking about, and for roughly the same price. They also have the same tiny drive shafts, most even smaller in diameter (1/8" vs 1/4") and that presents a problem for securing the motor shaft to the drive gear.

http://www.hansen-motor.com/ac-synchronous-motors.php

If one wants an AC motor for continuous power on a larger display, finding a slow-turning motor with an adaptable (larger, longer) shaft is most of the battle and at least half of the frustration of building a nice one that will run quietly for hours on end. I liked Jack's idea about a rotisserie motor, but where on earth to find them? If ya gotta buy a whole new rotisserie just to get the motor, you're not doing it right!

[Brady Watson]

Mark,
Yeah...the shafts are a bit stubby, but I don't think it would be hard to machine a pocket into a drive gear to mate it up perfectly - then just tag it to the shaft with a grub screw.

McMaster has some here (http://www.mcmaster.com/#synchronous-motors/=gf8xe1)


-B

[myxpykalix]

Brady (or anyone),

I'm wanting to make some gears and do a sculpture and have read what all are saying but what would someone need to know about motor size depending on the amount of gears you want to run?

What i mean is lets say i want to make a simple gear set of 4 gears at 6" diameter, that would take less torque or power to turn then say a set of 8 gears at 9" diameter. How do i determine what size/type motor i might need depending on the size or complexity of the sculpture? How would i measure the amount of torque needed to run one? Is it as simple as buying a motor that would handle the biggest thing you might make and not worry about it? Since i have not made one yet am I just overthinking it?:confused:

[tuck]

Jack, I think you are over-thinking it to a degree. If you watch the first youtube link I posted in this thread of the gear set I did last year, the center drive gear is 19" in diameter, and the shell they are all mounted to is 24" x 48". The gears are cut from 3/4" pvc and have some weight, but the little microwave turntable motor drives them just fine. The bigger problems stem from mounting the motor to the drive gear (tiny shaft), and mounting all of the rest of the gears on their own shafts so that they will spin freely and all mesh correctly. I used 1/4" bolts but they have threads that the gears can tighten themselves down on and lock up the whole works. An extra nut on the back helped that problem, but didn't cure it entirely. The problem is that you want all the gears to look tight (not flopping around), but to spin freely with little or no resistance. It can get very tricky.

Brett Dickens in Australia uses wooden dowel rods for his shafts and while he hasn't been clear to me on how he attaches everything (obviously the gears can't spin off the shafts), he seems to have it down to a science.

To me, it's all a fascinating mix of math, engineering and design that I have yet to master like Brett has. He sells his displays and does well. If he is a graduate of "gear college", I'm still in elementary school. I haven't completed another set since the one last year and I won't try another one until I have better ideas for motors and mounting. Finished displays should work perfectly with little or no maintenance. Mine is relatively simple but when I flip the switch, my friends can hardly take their eyes off of it. Everybody likes to see things go "round and round". :)

Edit to say, you can buy rotisserie motors, both AC and DC, but they come with no shaft, just a pocket for a shaft. Now ya gotta find the shaft, haha! http://www.4thegrill.com/rotisserie-spit-motors/battery-rotisserie-motor/

If you google "rotisserie motor", you can find a wide variety and they are not pricey and most are ready to "plug and play".

[mark_stief]

Get shoulder bolts made just for what you are trying to do the shoulder of the bolt is smooth and bigger around than the threads so you can tighten it to what ever you're mounting to and tighten it up and not bind on the gear I hope I explained that right:confused:

[myxpykalix]

Mark,
I watched that video before (where do you think i got my interest in making a gear sculpture?, that is so f'ing COOL!).

"The problem is that you want all the gears to look tight (not flopping around), but to spin freely with little or no resistance. It can get very tricky."

Again with overthinking it, but so as not to run into the issues you mention here and not having the program it would seem that when you make a set of gears you would set it up within a project framework, then your holes could be drilled exactly based on the shaft placement according to the gear array you create, am I on the right track?:confused:

[shoeshine]

OK wow, a bunch of things to respond to.

As far as the framework goes, this is one of the biggest advantages of Gearotic IMHO. When using the output module you can save a dxf of the framework calculated by the prog. Gives you all the center points of all the gears in your system. I have just then modifed this in Rhino/PW to create a housing for my gears. I generaly just mark my drill points with a Vbit and then drill to the dia. of my shafts with an accurate bit on the press.

...and yes, shoulder bolts (right on Mark, didn't think to mention) are perfect for this. I am now cutting my framework in sheet aluminum and then drilling/tapping holes for the bolts. (near perfect gear meshing for my tolerences)

@Jack:
In gearotic there is a program settings icon on the top bar to the right (a little green sphere with a chain link) Heres where you can toggle metric or SAE for your projects. The interface is not really intuitive but I have been able to get what I need via changing the D pitch and wheel teeth # to get the gear I want. Just watch the relationships to get a sense of how they interact. The actual mechanical theory is more complicated but for this purpose it has been sufficient. Getting meshing gears is a breeze as they are calculated by the prog. Nice feature is that in the spur gear panel, it gives you the minimum bit dia. to cut the involute "flat on the table".

@Dana:
As I posted earlier, the motor I have does have an info plate, but unfortunately with little helpful information. (no hits on product #) It does however say 120v 60Hz so it is clearly an AC motor. As it is from a breadmaker I will guess it has 2 speeds with different voltage ( prob. mixing and dough kneading as Edward suggested) Ill go ahead an hook it up to a 12v supply as you suggested to test. I'll report back.

@Brady:
As for safety, I am a contractor by training, not an engineer, so mains power is something I am both comfortable with and respectful of. My electronic geek friends get really annoyed by me as I still tend to "lock-out/tag-out" even for LV situations. Trust me, I am well away when power is applied (5' away with a covered switch wired w/ romex into a handy box screwed to my work table, motor housing held in a ramussen clamp). I might fry something, but no threat to life and limb.

Also these motors are damn near free. ( I paid all of $1.75 for the motor in question) A good learning situation for me, and if I get it to work? bonus.

@Mark:
one of the other scores was a george foreman JR rotisserie. I pulled the motor/gearbox... and wow. 120v, 2 lead, AC with a 12mm "D" shaft. Incredibly quiet, approx. 3RPM, and I cannot stall it with my fingers. No idea how it compares in torque to the aftermarket rotisserie motors, but it seems perfect for my purposes. The price was right ;-) and I am keeping an eye out for similar items on craigslist, freecycle, etc...

Side note: I also pulled apart a paper shredder and electric can opener from a yard sale. Nice torque and easy wiring, but damn... the noise. Give em a pass for kinetic sculpture.

Anyway,
Thanks for all the feedback.

This is a great forum.

Chris

[Bob Eustace]

Heres a bunch of stuff along similar lines and all Botable!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dehXioMIKg0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[myxpykalix]

Bob,
I've seen that before and that is so amazing:D

[steve_g]

http://www.mpja.com/1-RPM-120VAC-Timer-Motor/productinfo/17843+MA/ (http://www.mpja.com/1-RPM-120VAC-Timer-Motor/productinfo/17843+MA/)

Is this cheap enough?

Steve

[myxpykalix]

NO! Free is cheaper!:eek: lol

Do you think there might be an issue due to the short shaft? I know it is an issue for some...;) How would you mount it behind something and have room to attach a gear? Have you used any of these yet?

[myxpykalix]

here is another source...
http://www.micromark.com/motors.html

[steve_g]

Have you used any of these yet


No, I haven't used them... just saw them and thought of this thread. I figure that with 1rpm it must have lots of torque. If I were trying to use one of these I would make a gear with a center hole slightly smaller than the one that comes mounted on the motor, force the gear into it and run that gear direct drive.

Steve

[shoeshine]

Ohh, nice links gents...

Thanks I'll definately look into those. They probably are not big enough to run the larger project I am working on at the moment, but they might just be perfect for a couple of smaller pieces I have in mind later down the line.

[tuck]

@ Chris - please post what you come up with, can't wait to see it in action!

Edit to say: lot's of good links and ideas to/for motors in this thread!

[myxpykalix]

Is anyone proficient using Gearotic Motion? I'm tempted to buy it but after going thru some of the tutorials and creating a simple 4 gear setup I still can't seem to figure out how to export a project for cutting?

Also since i have an indexer i thought it might be cool to try to mill some gears using it but i'm unclear on how you might set that up being able to cut the gears on the side rather then from the flat?

[tuck]

Hey guys there is a free vector program, "Inkscape" that will render vector gears of any size: http://inkscape.org/

Once you have downloaded the program, open it, click on Extensions, then Render>Gear. You will be able then to select how many teeth, pitch, etc., then draw your gear(s). I save mine as an .eps and that imports fine in my CAD program (I use SignLab 5), where I'm able to cut them if I want.

It doesn't add center designs or anything else,... I do that in SignLab.

What the hey, it's free and totally worth playing around with.

[shoeshine]

Jack, I wouldnt say I am pproficient with Gearotic... But have used it successfuly for several projects. I can help with the output module to DXF for flat cutting. Not so much for an indexer (never used or designed for one) They also have a pretty lively forum on thier site.

[kern]

My friend, Marv, got rid of his bag phone and now uses a cell phone with a rotary dial.

[myxpykalix]

Chris (or anyone),

I'm working on an idea for a gear sculpture. Not only do i want to make gears spin but i would like to make a part of a carving move. My thought was to have the carving in the pic stationary on the face but somehow detatch the tongue from it and have it attached to a small gear via a rod behind the carving and let the tongue wag up and down.

I guess my question is, how can i determine how large of a gear i would need in order to make the tongue travel up and down probably no more then between 1/2" or 1"?
If you can visualize the drive wheel on an old locomotive where it pushes the rod back and forth, that is what i am visualizing as the mechanism for the movement?:confused:

[steve_g]

Jack

Something like this?
The travel is adjustable by moving the peg closer or farther from the gear center, and is limited to a linear motion.

SG

[steve_g]

Hey guys there is a free vector program, "Inkscape" that will render vector gears of any size: http://inkscape.org/ (http://inkscape.org/)


I'm fairly pleased with the Inkscape gear generator... nothing exotic like square or elliptical gears, but a good solid gear generator.

I made a gear every increment from 6 tooth to 22 tooth, compared pitch circles, and made a grid that three different gears will "play nicely" on. This is for a very mechanically curious 4 yr old grand son... I'll let you know how they work together after I cut them out.

Steve

[tuck]

Looking good Steve!

I would encourage anyone that may be even mildly interested to try some gears, be they electrically powered or not. It's a lot of fun, limited only by your imagination and shop skills!

[shoeshine]

@ Steve,
Nice... I was actually thinking of just that kind of system for my (almost) 4yr old to play around with but I have never gotten around to actually working it out. If you get it working well, please post. There will be a lot of really happy and engaged kiddos.

@ Jack,
Steve has it right. The diameter of the travel of the pivot point where it attaches to the gear is = to the stroke length of the piston. (if that makes any sense) though you can do it more simply with a slider on the piston and not need to get into making the oval cam. I'll see if I can work up an illustration if I'm not coming through.

[myxpykalix]

Chris,
I would have thought Steves illustration could be done a few different ways. I would think you could attach it at the first peg without the big oval and and just have the tongue connected to the shaft with a loose pin allowing it to pivot.

[shoeshine]

Yup, exactly.

[myxpykalix]

Steve what size cutter did you use to cut out your gears above?

edit...nevermind figured it out. did you cut yours yet?

[steve_g]

I cut a set out of 1/4" Sintra. I didn't leave enough allowance for a loose fit on a 1/2" dowel and need to re cut. First impression is favorable!

I cut them with a 1/8" "O" flute

The grid is 1/2" Sintra

Steve

[myxpykalix]

post that link here or post it to youtube and link it here. How do you deal with friction of the gears on the spacer plate? Do you have any washers behind the gears?
How are you mounting the gears on top of the other gears?:confused:

[steve_g]

Judging by feedback and some PMs not every one who's interested in kinetic sculpture is comfortable designing gears... Hopefully this info will help those who want some help and not bore the rest.

The thing with gears is that you are constrained size wise to what whole tooth multiples give you... you can scale them, but only if you scale the whole series.

I'm attaching a file to help make a cookie cutter approach to designing gears that mesh with each other...

I made a series of 6 to 22 tooth gears... they will all mesh with each other as the teeth are all the same size. The series all have three concentric circles on them, the inner most is a .5" diameter center hole for the axel or pivot, make this whatever size you are going to use. Next is the "pitch circle" or the ideal mesh depth. Overlapping these circles in a design will result in interference or really tight gears that are hard to turn... letting a gap exist between the circles results in a sloppy fit, the more it is, the worse it will be. My grandson's game is a compromise of sizes... I chose a grid spacing that will allow meshing with different sizes and at varying hole spacing, but there will be quite a bit of slop with some combinations. The outer most circle is necessary only to allow the gears to rotate about the center point in the design software.

The numbers I have on each gear are its radius... from center to pitch diameter. Adding any two together will give you the ideal axel spacing for those two gears.

My gears all have a .25 hole .75" from the center... this is to allow any two stacked gears to be pegged together... so a larger gear can be driven by a stacked smaller gear (or vice versa).

My first version of the "kids game" resulted in axel holes too small to rotate on the shaft. I redid these, but have since decided that I want the gear axel combos tight and the grid plate to be a loose fit. Ver. 3 coming soon.

Jack, no washers not a bad idea though.

The attached image shows the method of locking two stacked gears together... a 1/4" steel dowel in the hole located a common distance from center in all gears...

Steve

Video of gears in motion!
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B8GtiBWUjRyRbEh2ckh3ZmFRNHF5WGdGRFlZZWN2Q Q

And the .crv file
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B8GtiBWUjRyRUHp4djdOUDdUckdNU041VjhDblhfd w

[steve_g]

Oh Yah... A big hit
(papa got a surprise spring break visitor)

[myxpykalix]

The gears on the table were not the only gears turning! I can see the gears turning in that mind trying to figure out different combinations:D
That's why we do what we do:)

[tuck]

Steve - that is so cool to see what you did for your grandson! Now let's see you do one for yourself,...motorized!

We're all kids, to one degree or another.

[steve_g]

I've actually been thing about an idea using lots of moving parts and a clock. Of course the implication will be that the Rube Goldberg devise is involved in the time keeping, but in fact there is no connection between the two. kind of like the pendulum of most battery clocks today.

Steve

[tuck]

I've actually been thing about an idea using lots of moving parts and a clock. Of course the implication will be that the Rube Goldberg devise is involved in the time keeping, but in fact there is no connection between the two. kind of like the pendulum of most battery clocks today.

Steve

Yeah well,... I say the crazier the better! Again, it's only limited by your imagination and problem-solving skills.

My next one is planned in my mind and it's gonna be nuts, but I don't know when I can get to it.

I liked the way you thought out the stacked gears, Steve. My hand-cut prototype of 20+ years ago had stacked gears and it really adds to the "motion of the ocean".

I really like the idea of shoulder bolts suggested in this thread as well.

Imagine it,.....and you can do it! :cool:

[myxpykalix]

Steve, Mark,

The Rube Goldberg-ish movement was kind of what i had in mind when i was talking about making the tongue move up and down within a carving i had in mind.
As i am drifting off to sleep i lay there and try to visualize in my mind how to make each part or how will they interact with each other. Not only wanted to show gears spinning but instead of just using gears why not use carvings on the face like a compass face, clock face, sun, moon or other 3d carvings on the face of the gear or glued to the front to hide the teeth.

If anyone would like to collaborate on a project i'd be interested in making something that could be driven with a small motor. Maybe we could collaborate to make something then share it with all.......(nah, screw em we'll keep it for ourselves!:D):rolleyes::D

[myxpykalix]

I was thinking about this also.... remember those flat plastic chach-ki's that you might get in a cracker jack box that had say a picture of a pair of lips when you looked at it from one angle and moved it to another angle and you might see a bunch of teeth? What are those called and where could i find something like that?

[tuck]

Jack - hiding the teeth is a novel idea but not possible. You could hide the gears, but not the teeth themselves. It can be done with only the teeth showing. They need to mesh with nothing in the way. Your idea has real possibilities for extended graphics applications that could be tons of fun. If I were gonna go that way, here's what I would do: I would cut gears with no center designs since you won't see those anyway. Just cut plain simple gears with teeth. Next, design colorful/whimsical centers of whatever amuses you and that can be printed by your local sign company on a digital printer that can cut shapes (circles), and apply the self-adhesive vinyl prints to your gears. Do you understand?

Oh man, now you have me thinking in a whole new direction. Way to go, Jack. lol

[myxpykalix]

following up on your "no centers" idea...Rather then put some cheap printed graphic in the center why not do this...

Why not cut your gears so that on the face of the gears the struts are inset say about .25" so that if you were looking at the gear laying flat it would look like a bowl shape.

Then take carving of various things that you could insert into the bowl shape so you could interchange different carvings or rearrange them to come up with different designs?

If you were thinking of making these and selling you could standardize the gears and change the faces for different designs:eek:

[steve_g]

printed by your local sign company on a digital printer

Hypnotic spirals?

I have a bunch of RGB LEDs left over from a business venture I sold... I'm thinking there aught to be a way to have a ring of LEDs on a gear that change color as it turns. I'm thinking old school contacts here, not sensors and microcomputers.

Steve

Jack... I'll collaborate any way I can...

[tuck]

following up on your "no centers" idea...Rather then put some cheap printed graphic in the center why not do this...

Why not cut your gears so that on the face of the gears the struts are inset say about .25" so that if you were looking at the gear laying flat it would look like a bowl shape.

Then take carving of various things that you could insert into the bowl shape so you could interchange different carvings or rearrange them to come up with different designs?

If you were thinking of making these and selling you could standardize the gears and change the faces for different designs:eek:

Cheap printed graphics? They won't look cheap as long as the graphics are tight, printed at high resolution, and look good. It's a way of adding a lot of color and design that would be eye-grabbing and fun with many possible themes for gears.

Don't discount print just because you have a Shopbot! One of the best signs I ever designed and made was a routed 2.5D job that was centered around exactly the kind of print I'm talking about:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/Superfan52/Spike005.jpg

The sign was 4' in diameter and the customer raved over it! I would have taken me (or anyone else), a month of Sundays to carve that image 3D and paint it, and it never would have looked as sharp as the print did! NEVER!

[myxpykalix]

YOU'RE GETTING SLEEPY....SLEEPY....YOU HEAR NOTHING BUT THE SOUND OF MY VOICE.....:eek:

[tuck]

YOU'RE GETTING SLEEPY....SLEEPY....YOU HEAR NOTHING BUT THE SOUND OF MY VOICE.....:eek:

I never sleep..........

[myxpykalix]

mARK I WAS THINKING IN TERMS OF WHAT MY CRAPPY B/W PRINTER WOULD PUT OUT (OOPPS) like above.

I remember that sign when you first made that...Follow my thinking here...how i see your sign would be to keep the center with the deer static and the outside ring of the scope and name let that revolve.

That might need some type of movement like a clock that has a inner shaft for the faster second hand and a hollow collar for a slower hour hand?

[myxpykalix]

and i thought i was the only one up nights....the only thing is i need to be back in my "sanctuary" before the sun comes up:rolleyes:

[tuck]

mARK I WAS THINKING IN TERMS OF WHAT MY CRAPPY B/W PRINTER WOULD PUT OUT (OOPPS) like above.

I remember that sign when you first made that...Follow my thinking here...how i see your sign would be to keep the center with the deer static and the outside ring of the scope and name let that revolve.

That might need some type of movement like a clock that has a inner shaft for the faster second hand and a hollow collar for a slower hour hand?

I understand your idea, but it could get quite complex and in the end, not as amusing as "everything spinning" for a typical kinetic gear display. The idea is for everything to spin, Mr. Jarvis! lol

Here's an idea: since these are "planetary gears", design and build a motorized wall display of our planetary system with the sun in the middle, nice and bright yellow with a smiling face, and all of the planets spinning around it! Colorful digital prints of the planets sized, cut and applied to the gears could make for a dazzling and fun display!

Are you gonna make me do this? :p

[myxpykalix]

Steve check this out

http://www.xoxide.com
http://www.xoxide.com/cooljag-pro-flash-80mm-fan.html

[myxpykalix]

"Are you gonna make me do this?"

you mean its not done YET? c'mon man! :D

That might be a fun project.I don't think i want to see the gear for YurAnus:eek:

[myxpykalix]

I wonder how we can pin this thread or subscribe to it to keep it from fading way back?

Mark or Steve...i don't have it but there is a shopbot app called "Spiralizer" and a spirograph app (I think both made by Bill) that probasbly would make good designs for whirly things on the front of these gears.

Not that i want to do this but, you said you couldn't cover the teeth...well i think you can.
Think about your sculpture laying flat on the table and you are looking at it from the end. Well if your shafts holding the gears extended out past the gears at different heights you could glue your faces on the ends of the shafts and have them overlap each other which might make for a interesting visual:eek:

[steve_g]

Too much fun for an old man... The triple stack of gears in the center all move at a different rate, some double stacks rotate in reverse to each other... The whole thing is a sea of movement! I've got a clock movement coming that has an extra long shaft... It'll come out of the center of the triple stack. I'm going to redo the grid to accept threaded brass inserts and use shoulder bolts for the gear pivots... I don't have a motor to drive the gear train yet, but I'm working on it. What do you think... is the colored plastic cheap looking? Do I need to redo the gears in various wood species?

Steve

[myxpykalix]

No i like the different colors. Let me ask you, you had some gears sitting off to the side of the material, should those be moved on and cut? What about the ones at the top? You only had the ones at the bottom toolpathed. Are they all compatible with these gears?:confused:

[steve_g]

Jack

Any of the gears in that series will mesh... but the ones I toolpathed will work on the grid. If you want to establish axel spacing determined by radii, use any combination!
Who knows why I have some off to the side, works in process?

Steve

[tuck]

Steve, I disagree with Jack. I think it's time for you to move on to some nice wood of different species and do a very cool motorized display.

You have come fah, grass hoppa!

Keep up the good work, keep having fun, and by all means keep us posted!

Edit to say, "some off to the side" is a good thing as it adds to visual interest. Paint outside the lines, my man!

[myxpykalix]

I have 2 motors coming in a few days, hopefully i'll be able to cut some gears and make something spin.

[steve_g]

"some off to the side"

On my down load file I have some gears "off to the side" or not on the main work area... My habit when I work is to discard items off to the side, I never delete something because so often a train of thought runs through a previous idea.

The down load file I provided includes all gears in the series from 6 tooth to 22 tooth these gears are all grouped at the top of the work area... It's my habit to create "master" patterns that I don't alter. My work flow would be to make copies of the masters, ungroup the copy, modify them and toolpath them. but never the "master". Make sense?

Steve

[tuck]

"some off to the side"
Make sense?

Steve

No! :D hahahaha

[steve_g]

Jack

I found a spirograph generator in Inkscape... just a few items down from the gear generator.

Steve

[tuck]

Eee gads, Steve! It would take a month of Sundays to cut/engrave them designs! Y'all are gettin' way too fancy for me!

[myxpykalix]

A few "elements" i've been thinking about, maybe more for a flat sculpture then one that hangs on the wall.

Do you recall "forbidden Planet" and Robby the robot? he had some cool stuff going on in his head: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a63i4rGZ1ts

Frankly my favorite robot was GORT...Klaatu, Barada, Nickto! :eek:

[myxpykalix]

http://www.instructables.com/id/Laser-cut-gear-clock-with-Chronodot/

[Ryan Patterson]

I have posted a few Gadgets on the Vectric forum. One of the Gadgets is a gear maker. Gadgets will also work with PartWorks version 2.5 or greater. Here is a link to the Vectric posting http://www.vectric.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=13908

[gundog]

I bought Gearotic Motion a while back for a project I am working on. I am designing a new fishing rod holder to be made from 1/2" 6061 T-6 Al the rear ring on the rod holder will rotate and I used a gear set I created in Gearotic Motion then I imported that file into Aspire and node edited most of the gear to only leave 2 teeth on one side and 1 tooth on the other as I only need the part to rotate 20*. I may try and patent this rod holder so I can't publish pictures at this time but it works great.

Mike

[steve_g]

Ryan

Thank you for reminding me about your gear generating gadget and making me aware of the other gadgets you've made available to us... I was under the impression that your gear app only made single tooth drawings, leaving it up to the user to copy and paste them in a circular array.

To all

I've made a totally unbiased comparison of Ryan's gear gadget and Inkscape's generator...
On the attached image I show identical gears created by both programs... I chose to make a gear with six teeth having a Diametral Pitch of 3. The Diametral Pitch is the number of teeth per inch and 3 is a number that can nicely be routed with a 1/8" router bit. As imported, you can see that the CPP gear has vastly more nodes that the Inkscape gear. For gears to mesh smoothly and with the least amount of friction possible, they should contact each other at a single point. For this to happen, the gear faces must be curves. As imported... the CPP gear approaches this with many many short segments, while Inkscape doesn't even pretend. After the nodes have been reduced the CPP gear faces have been replaced with Bezier curves while the Inkscape faces are still straight lines. Also Ryan's gadget places the center hole that you specify, while the Inkscape generator does not place a center at all. This is actually more important than it may seem... the center of a gear with an odd number of teeth is slightly different than the center of mass that will become the snap point.

I've cut a lot of gears from the Inkscape generator, but now will have to give it a thumbs down. Thank you Ryan for a quality tool for our arsenal.

Steve

[Ryan Patterson]

Steve, Thank you for the compliments.

You are able to control the number of nodes by adjusting the Line Resolution setting. You may need to increase the line resolution setting for smaller gears.

[steve_g]

Ryan

I admit I didn't try any changes with the line resolution setting... for some reason I assumed it had something to do with display graphics. I see now that it allows me to increase or decrease the number of nodes. Thanks for the clarification.

On another note... I've been playing with the spiral generator. When I make a spiral, I get a line composed of a multitude of nodes, and any attempt to reduce them by using "fit to curves" results in no change... Is this a mathematics issue or is there another method to reduce the nodes?

I was able to accomplish what I wanted by using the distort feature, but would like to deal with Bezier curves if possible...

Steve

[tmerrill]

Steve,

Converting to Beziers using the Fit to Curves tool is working for me and should work fine for all cases.

Tim

[steve_g]

Tim

interesting... It's not working for me... here's my settings, how do they compare to yours?

Steve

[tmerrill]

I typically leave a tolerance setting of 0.001". Creates a more accurate copy but at the trade-off of more nodes.

I changed to your settings and it still worked. Considering the size of the spiral may have a bearing on it, I just made it different sizes and it worked in all cases.

Can you post your .crv3d/.crv file with the spiral you are having trouble with?

Tim

[steve_g]

Here it is...

Thanks

Steve

[Ryan Patterson]

I have had the same type of issue fit curves and can not duplicate 100%. I am not sure why it does not always work.

Here are a couple of pictures of gears. I put a section of gear on the outside just for a little style and was amazed that I got it lined up correctly for a gear to roll around the outside to the inside.

[tuck]

Wow, well over 3,000 views and going on 90 replies. This thread is a hit! :)

Guys, I may have a new spin (no pun intended) on how to set you gears on a shaft and with a little TLC, have the least resistance possible and no slop going on. This here little gizmo should be familiar to most router heads. It's a "roller bearing":

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/Superfan52/RollerBearing.jpg

This particular little puppy came off of a 1/2" shank router bit, so naturally the inner hole is exactly 1/2" diameter, which should fit very snugly over 1/2" dowel rod with maybe a little persuasion. The outer diameter is 1 1/4", easy enough to cut your center hole to fit with maybe a little glue. The bearing is about 1/4" thick.

The inner and outer rings spin independently of one another on sealed greased bearings. Smooth as silk. Similar to shoulder bolts, this set-up would allow you to securely fasten your rod (axle) to your base (you DON'T want your rods to spin!), while allowing your gears to spin freely and securely.

Make sense? hmmm.... http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIDENTIFIED-40-CONVEYOR-ROLLERS-SMALL-BEARINGS-BEARING-/400211821000?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d2e7bc1c8

p.s. Never mind those harmonicas in the background of the pic. I can't play. :(

[myxpykalix]

p.s. Never mind those harmonicas in the background of the pic. I can't play.
Don't they also call that a mouth organ?:eek:

Let me ask, if you have small gears like the ones you've cut so far do you really need the bearings? I know i mentioned using a washer to just raise the gear enough off the surface to keep the friction down but these bearings look like they are made to help rotate around the shaft as opposed to help rotate something laying on top of them? If the ball stuck proud of the bearing surface wouldn't that be better?
Reading the item description it seems these are more meant to roll something on the outside edge as if they were sitting on their sides. In that case you could make the hole on the gear large enough to fit over the outside edge and would give you the benefit? Keep up the research and design:D

[tuck]

Jack I think the roller bearings are the way to go. If your material is thick enough, you could actually cut a pocket in the back of your gears for them to fit in snugly (with a little adhesive to make sure nothing slips). The result? No visible hardware on the fronts!

I don't know when I'll get to my next gear project, but roller bearings it will be! Here's some more: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bearings-for-Roller-blades-skateboards-21-TIC-/320871849027?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab573dc43

Edit to say: I bought those bearings. :)

[myxpykalix]

Ryan,
What is the blue material you have for the gear backing?:confused:

[tuck]

Jack, what kind of motors did you order?

[myxpykalix]

it was the motor and power supply in the links you gave me from MPJA. I got them the other day, i just haven't had the opportunity to do anything yet.

[tuck]

it was the motor and power supply in the links you gave me from MPJA. I got them the other day, i just haven't had the opportunity to do anything yet.

Naw, that was Steve. Those motors have the tiny shafts.

[Ryan Patterson]

I would like to get a small motor to use as a generator. Connect it to a small light and Kids could play with the different gear ratios to see how bright they can get the light.
The blue material is ColorCore http://www.kingplastic.com/products/all-products/king-colorcore/ (http://www.kingplastic.com/products/all-products/king-colorcore/). After drilling the holes I tapped them to be able to mount the shoulder bolts. The shoulder bolts worked will but would be better if bearings were used as Mark suggests.

[tuck]

Folks, I have been messaging Brett Dickins, the master gear sculptor from Australia that I mentioned at the beginning of this thread and come to find out, Brett uses dowel rods and roller bearings. The following info is straight from Brett:

Mark,

The dowels are hardwood, usually some variety of Oak (any hardwood dowel will do) and I buy them at my local hardware store. The bearings are from a bearing specialty store, I'm sure you will find one nearby with a bit of a search. First I degrease the outer edge of the bearing, and add epoxy to the center of the hole of the gear.. Place the bearing inside the hole and let it set sitting on a flat surface so that gear and bearing are flush with each other rather than the bearing being crooked inside the hole. I then add epoxy to the front and rear of the edge where the bearing meets the gear center so that it can't go anywhere. The 8mm center of the bearing goes over the dowel, I use a piece of PVC pipe and a hammer to persuade them onto the dowel, then some epoxy front and back where the bearing meets the dowel to ensure it will never go anywhere either. At this stage you have a gear mounted to a bearing on an axle, and it's ready to go into your sculpture. I also sand the gears and add a circular wooden piece to the front end of the axle to hide the bearing underneath, and clear coat everything a few times for a nice glossy finish, all cosmetic.

You will very much learn from experience what works best for you as you go along. It actually took me the best part of 2 years of development (my degree is in visual art, not engineering) to get my works to the stage where I was comfortable selling them and knowing that barring any stresses that they weren't designed for such as being dropped, then they will run smoothly for many years to come.

Well there you have it guys, straight from the horses mouth, and I can't take credit for the idea.

Brett has his gears laser cut, but obviously it makes no difference how they are cut as long as it's accurate. The bearings he uses have an 8mm center hole, and here's a link I found for 8mm wooden dowel rod: http://www.thehardwarehut.com/catalog-product.php?p_ref=260423

I've made a few sets of motorized gears and now I'm really itching to get to my next set. I can see how the roller bearing & dowel rod axle set-up will eliminate so many problems and frustrations I have encountered previously, which has stopped me from tackling more complex and intricate designs. It's the way to go, no doubt. I'll probably use 10mm sheet PVC for the gears (I like the way PVC cuts and it's fun and easy to paint), with a hole pocketed (counter sunk) in the back of the gears for the bearing and axle assemblies (nothing visible on the fronts).

I still haven't decided on a motor. It needs to meet several requirements for me: small, quiet, readily available, relatively inexpensive, 120 v., already wired up (or easily wired up) with a plug, easily mountable, a hefty and adaptable shaft, and low rpm. Any suggestions?

Once I have everything I need, it's gonna get crazy! :)

I'm gonna send Brett a link to this thread and see if he might like to join in.

[tuck]

After reviewing this thread, I see that Steve had posted a link earlier for the PERFECT motor for me! Thanks, Steve!

http://www.micromark.com/animation-gearmotor,7886.html

That's the one!!! :)

[Pete M]

I recently bought an old Machinery's Handbook published in 1950, and it explains how to construct the involute gear form and has all the required specs. We can make things easily now with modern equipment and should take a moment to appreciate those who made it possible. The heavy thinking was done in the seventeen hundreds.

[tuck]

Peter, I would love to see that book!

I had to do some heavy thinking myself before all of these cool gear generating programs came along. You have to work with pi, diameters and circumferences, all kinds of crazy mathematical equations that can cause a man a headache. Been there, done that.

You're right. It's easy enough now to generate the gears with modern software/programs. How creative and imaginative you can get with the gears' center designs, themes for great looking and fun displays, as well as coming up with the right hardware to put it all together and make the displays run smoothly are the challenges left.

This has been an amazing thread that has addressed most if not all of the challenges for hardware. The rest is left up to your imagination!

[Pete M]

14791
It is all good

[myxpykalix]

now it's click, click, click and you're done! Well Mark that's what made you so smart is all that there book-lernin. But look what you have teached us!:rolleyes:

[tuck]

now it's click, click, click and you're done! Well Mark that's what made you so smart is all that there book-lernin. But look what you have teached us!:rolleyes:

Ha! I'm hardly smart,...just determined to discover the right way to do things and the World Wide Web makes that a lot easier.

Jack, I think you may have purchased the incorrect motors as the shafts are so small. The one I'm getting (see 5 post above) will work much better and make your life easier. Can you return for refund and get the better one(s)?

[tuck]

One thing I wanted to add: I've noticed how Brett installs a piece of clear plex over most all of his displays. This is a great idea for permanent wall displays to protect against dust, damage and the prying hands of curious children.

As far as how to hang them (the displays, not the children!), I think french cleats would be the way to go. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP6mP_bApGY

[myxpykalix]

I think Steve sent me the links and i just bought 2 of them. They weren't but about 6-8 bucks each i think hardly worth the time and expense to ship back but i did have the same thought about the shaft being too small but and figured he knew what he was talking about.....
BUT NOOOOOOO....:D lol

I copied your link and might get a couple of those. What i do think would be cool is if you could reverse the direction of the motors with a switch or program a time interval to run one way then reverse.:eek:

[tuck]

One thing I'm considering for a cool looking finish for my next gear project is Sculpt Nouveau. I've never used any but you can get beautiful patinas with it and I envision old antiqued rusted looking gears, slowly turning.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/Superfan52/Corbis-TG005865.jpg

http://www.sculptnouveau.com/

There's all kinds of instruction for its' use on YouTube and I know Joe Crumley has used a good deal of it before with stunning results.

Also, rattle can spray paint has come a long way in recent years, with all kings of metallic and textured paints available. You can imitate the color/finish of everything from solid gold to solid stone.

This thread has really gotten me worked up again to get back into gear making and kinetic wall sculptures!

[shoeshine]

As far as switching the polarity, look into Arduino. There is a bit of learning curve, but not a huge one. Lots of good stuff on Maker's blog.

[tuck]

Once again I refer to the master, Mr. Dickins, for inspiration and ideas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1De-TC5qwM&list=UUVXVfZ5ryrcp1TgxegnpFBw&index=3&feature=plcp

I think the guy is pure genius with his work.

[myxpykalix]

Chris,
Is Arduino close to Tatuwin? lol
Electronics is not my forte, soldering circuits and wires is not my thing. Now if i can buy it made up that's a different story.

[steve_g]

Mark

I have had many splendid experiences with Sculpt Nouveau... and stunning failures! Working with it is 33% art, 33% science, and 33% luck. Each and every time you use it is a new day, and anything you thought you learned yesterday is worthless... There are so many variables that effect the outcome that there is always one or more that are not able to be controlled. Time, temperature, humidity, altitude, attitude, are just a few of the identifiable ones. In the end is it worth it? OH YES! Each and every project is unique and not repeatable... Never tell a customer "It'll look like this" because you just became a liar! Just a word of caution... Using Sculpt Nouveau is addictive.

If you use a Sculpt Nouveau finish your stacked gears will need to be spaced so that they don't rub on each other... then again, there are no rules in this game!

Steve

[tuck]

Steve,

I've found another way to do a "rusted" finish that may be easier, less expensive and more predictable:

http://artfullymusing.blogspot.com/2011/08/tutorial-how-to-rust-just-about-any.html

Scroll down the page and you'll see the person even did a set of gears with this method.

But I still wanna try the Sculpt Noveau and I think using patinas can really make for great looking and truly unique displays. You reckon it'll do good on PVC?

Gentlemen, I've decided that the theme for my next effort will be "Tempus Fugit". Any guesses what that means? Stay tuned! :)

[myxpykalix]

Tempus fugit is a Latin expression meaning "time flees":)

I asked her: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O8rWViCixQ

[tuck]

Tempus fugit is a Latin expression meaning "time flees":)

You googled it, didn't ya Jack? lol Best known in English as "Time Flies".

I'm working on a design for a crazy clock display that makes no sense, tells no time, but will be a hoot to view in motion if I can solve an engineering problem I've already encountered. I know there's a solution but I haven't figured it out yet and that's half the fun. Some of this stuff can tickle your puzzler!

[steve_g]

Here's the first gears I cut with Ryan's gadget. It's a planetary gear drive designed with a formula I found online... R=(2xP)+S where R = the number of teeth in the ring gear, P = the number of teeth in the Planet gears, and S = the number of teeth in the Sun gear. My setup is R=33, P=12, and S=9. thus 33=(2x12)+9. Since I chose variables all divisible by three, I can have three planet gears equilaterally spaced around the sun. Other variables could result in planet gears not equally spaced or where another quantity of them may be appropriate, such as four planet gears...

I didn't find any tutorials on designing the internal gear, so I just trimmed a regular gear internally close to the pitch circle. It seems to work, but I'm open to suggestions as to the "correct" method of doing this.

I cut these gears just as the gadget designed them...They made a very snug and likely correct fit, but perhaps a little to tight for this project. I'll cut a new sun gear with a few thousandths of allowance.

Overall, I'm pleased with the results, and the planetary gear transmission is fun to play with and see what different combinations of gear reduction and multiplication you can come up with.

Steve G

[myxpykalix]

Steve,
Have you see this: http://woodgears.ca/reader/walters/planetary.html
it is similar and you might get some ideas or help in your equations?

No I didn't google it, i watch Jeopardy regularly, you'd be surprised at what you pick up from that..plus I always have a back up.....Marina at HotForWords.com:eek:

[tuck]

Very cool, Steve. You are now a certified "Gear Head"!

Jack, I think the link you've posted to Ronald Walter's work was initial work for this project here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzIG9stFXSI

Pointless, useless,...and absolutely brilliant!

[myxpykalix]

What i'm amazed at is, not only the design but the tenacity to stick with it and create something like this. I don't know how long it took him to do this but its amazing.:D

[tuck]

It is amazing, but certainly not his first go at it. He started somewhere with a learning curve like we all do. But yes,... his tenacity, inventiveness, imagination, skill and craftsmanship are something to behold! And for all I've been able to deduct, he cuts all of his parts with hand tools! :eek:

I solved my engineering problem for "Tempus Fugit", I think, and can't wait to start cutting, but I don't have the funds for materials at the moment. Things are pretty skinny around here and I don't have enough scrap laying around to do the job, so it's gonna have to wait but that's ok. I can still design and plan this project, and time spent doing that always pays off. What I've learned in the past week about dowel rod, roller bearings and the right motor alone has unleashed all kinds of possibilities for a whacky, fun kinetic wall sculpture/display!

[myxpykalix]

What type of material are you wanting to make this out of? Most of the gears you've made have been thin material, non wood. I am super cheap myself so when i can find a substitute for something or a cheap resource i try it.

Rather then going and buying a sheet of (whatever) from your source why not go down to your local Habitat store. I needed some double insulated glass for a solar hot water heater and instead of going to the glass store and buying the size i needed for over $100.00 I just went down to the Habitat store and bought a donated screen door with the glass for $10.00. They get donated flat material sometimes that they don't even know what it is.

Have you thought of using .25" corian for some of these gears? I think that would be a good material to make the gears from don't you? Why not go to a countertop company and offer to make a lithopane (let him hang it in his window at home instead of electrifying it) in exchange for some scraps. Could you make gears from .5" corian?
Have I solved your material problem now?:rolleyes: I hope so because i want to see this crazy design you are conjuring up:D

[tuck]

Jack, you are too thoughtful my friend and thank you, but I'll wait until some spare $$$ is in the kitty. I wanna use PVC and I really don't need a whole sheet just now but that's what I have to buy from my supplier and I'll end up using all of it eventually. I also wanna cover the display with clear non-glare 1/8" acrylic, and that stuff is expensive!

I suppose I could call around to some friends in the sign business and ask if the have any scrap PVC and/or acrylic they would donate for arts' sake or sell for cheap! There's an idea!

I did have enough scrap to make a small prototype of the central idea of this Tempus Fugit project, which consist of 2 stacked gears of the same size (stacked directly over each other), that will rotate in opposite directions on a common axle. Solving that problem was a booger and it took me over 24 hours of head scratching to figure out the best way to do it, but the prototype works great! And there will be other complicated things going on as well (flapping wings!) that I need to noodle-out. I only wanna build this thing one time! ;)

BTW, I subscribed to this thread and get an email every time there is a reply,...that's why I'm always quick to post most everytime someone replies. It's not like I'm always lurking in this thread day and night, waiting for someone to say something, lol!

[myxpykalix]

I went down to a sign co. i do work for and he sold me a piece of PVC .75 or 1" 3'x3' for like $25.00(?)
Again, go down to Habitat and i bet you could find a piece of acrylic in a storm door (and the whole door) cheaper then buying the material outright.

Start thinking like a cheapskate!;) I got a whole load of nice figured and crotch walnut for carving a design on 3 doors for a gun cabinet for a guy and he gave me the material for the doors. It's called "horse-tradin' or bartering".

Look in the Craigslist section for "free stuff" or "materials". You would be surprised what some people give away. They don't see the value in things that i can see. You know the old saying..."One man's trash, is another mans treasure"
What's funny is i've become, what as a kid I used to make fun of. I remeber seeing old guys come by and pick up furniture and things others would throw out and we would shout "garbage picker!, Garbage picker!"
I'm now that man....:eek:

btw here is a pair of wings you could carve:
http://hobbycncart.com/news/uj_ingyenes_relief_az_oldalon_new_free_relief/2012-03-17-389

[tuck]

Haha Jack, what is this "Habitat" of which you speak?

[myxpykalix]

Haven't you heard of the "Habitat for Humanity" stores? People donate building materials (lots of it new from builders) or people remodeling and you can buy stuff sometimes 10 cents (where is the "cents" key?) on the dollar.
I have done some solar projects and bought aluminum gutters, doors, foamboard insulation, caulking, paint, paintbrushes (oh wait, i buy those at the dollar store) and lots of other stuff WAY CHEAPER then from the big box stores. Find a habitat store close to you by going here:
http://www.habitat.org/cd/local/default.aspx?media=Google&source_code=DHQOQ1107W1GGR&keyword=brsl_loc&gclid=CPjY--Lhhq8CFYuK4AodvUXnAQ&tgs=My8yNy8yMDEyIDU6Mjg6MTUgQU0%3d

Google is your friend...:D

[jerry_stanek]

I just donated about $10,000 worth of stuff on Saturday. Had a whole trailer full of new parts that I no longer needed.

[myxpykalix]

And you didn't tell us first?? Shame on you! lol:(

[myxpykalix]

Mark,
I think the question has been answered earlier in the thread but i'm kind of interested in doing something that has the ability to change directions by using something like a stepper motor:
http://www.mpja.com/email/03-20-12.asp?r=350255&s=31

but i wonder how you could program movement back and forth? I know someone talked about Audrey or Audrino (lol) but you would need to have the ability to program the movement.

[tuck]

Well of course I've heard of Habitat for Humanity, but I didn't know they sold stuff sometimes. That's definitely worth checking out, and there's one right here in town. Craigs List free stuff is worth a look as well.

So you wanna do gears that reverse? Like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aobPgGzB-U

I couldn't be of any further help on that. Believe me, a complex display can be enough trouble just getting everything going smoothly in one direction, never mind two! lol

[tuck]

Here's a (not very good) vid clip of my little prototype. It's hard to handle in free space so pardon the jerkiness: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o30TAl-5uvI

I added some white pencil marks to try and make it more clear what's going on.

The real deal will be about 1/3 to 1/2 again larger. The center disk will be the crazy clock dial and it will spin in unison with the rear gear as shown. The front gear will spin in the opposite direction and will be engraved with "Tempus Fugit" all around it. The real deal will be colorful, of course, with other things added like funky clock hands, etc.

This set-up will be the focal point of the display, with lots of other gears spinning around it and other things going on (the flapping wings, for instance).

I guess it looks simple enough, but I had a bear of a time figuring out how to make it work right. Like I said earlier, I ain't that smart.

So the prototype works fine but has taught me that the final deal will need a little more tweaking to run as smooth and quietly as possible. But hey, that's what prototypes are for!

[myxpykalix]

That looks cool the gear teeth running in opposite directions is creating a neat effect. It looks like the front faceplate is connected to the back gear and the front gear is is independant and spins on it's own on the shaft. Now i can see how you can make the faceplate and backgear spin in one direction with the motor but wouldn't you have to have another gear to turn the front gear in the opposite direction?
In other words your motor and shaft is NOT going to turn the faceplate and backgear in one direction, while turning the front gear in an opposite direction, correct?:confused:

[tuck]

Exactly, Jack. The front faceplate is connected to the rear gear and the front gear spins independently of the rear gear and in the opposite direction. Both front and rear gears will be driven by separate gears on separate and corresponding levels (planes), and all will be driven by a single drive gear somewhere in the display. I estimate the size of the display will be maybe 36" x 36", with as many crazy rusted gears crammed in there as possible, whirling all around. I'll have to stack some more gears somewhere to make it all work, but they will be offset and not directly on top of one another. At least, that's the plan.

The flapping wings are the next big puzzle, but I'm in no rush. I almost gave up on this first prototype idea/design, thinking at one point it was impossible. But then I remembered that nothing is impossible and I got tenacious with it! :cool:

[myxpykalix]

This is the post I was searching for in venting my frustration in a previous post. I saw the picture from this project and clearly he had to be influenced by our gear discussions here:D

http://www.vectric.com/WebSite/Vectric/projects/2012/04-mar-vectricon/vectricon-chroniker.html

This looks really cool and, I don't know if the gears are supposed to turn or not? But just looking at the picture i could see how you could independantly hold the clock so the 3 gears could spin. Nice project Michael!:)

[chiloquinruss]

If the clock was 'gimbaled' or inset into a large bearing surface and weighted at the bottom of the clock it could be made to remain in position while everything else turns, really cool! This is gettin' fun! :) Russ

[tuck]

Jack, looking at the link and design you've posted from Vectric, I don't think it was ever meant to move (spin). The link shows a couple of animated gears that are added in addition to the pic, and the pic shows it as it was designed,...to be static (other than clock hands moving.)

I like the looks of it but the basic design is meant to be static, not kinetic.

If'n it ain't spinning, I don't want it, and it can't spin in free space. The gears have to be grounded (attached, mounted, connected, etc.) on a substrate with a motor involved. Other than a nice design, what good is it if things ain't spinning???

[myxpykalix]

Here is a componnent that could be used in the gearmaking sculpture that some of you may be working on, plus i'd like to keep this thread close to the top and active.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Laser-Cut-Wooden-4-Axis-Positing-System/

This was cut with a lser but you could rework it some to cut it i think.:eek:

[bill.young]

This fractal clockwork is basically the start of a wooden computer. It's laser cut but pretty cool.

http://fractalclockwork.blogspot.com/

Watch the video with the sound on...you haven't heard a computer that sounds like that before!

[steve_g]

you haven't heard a computer that sounds like that before...


I recognize the sound... are my bones computing too?

Steve

[myxpykalix]

I wonder if this couldn't be something that could be used to make different parts of the sculpture move in different directions?
http://www.planet-cnc.com/index.php?page=hardware

I know dana(?) talked about Audrino but wondered if this is similar?

Mark how is your sculpture project going?:confused:

[tuck]

Mark how is your sculpture project going?:confused:

Jack - it's not. I still plan to do it, but these days find me broke and in an intensive and exhausting job search. After almost 10 years, I'm hanging up being self-employed and am hopefully going back to punching a clock as this economy dictates. The good news is that I had a great interview the other day for a large company that needs cnc operators and I think (hope), I will be offered a position there soon. It pays well, has great benefits, and is close to home.

Keep your fingers crossed for me, buddy. My pockets are empty, the cupboards are bare, and the wolf is at the door! :eek:

[myxpykalix]

I wanted to post this in the gearmaking thread to keep this from fading away. Here is a geared iphone cover that works! Lets get this discussion of gearmaking back on track:eek:
http://www.instructables.com/id/IPhone-Cover-for-Engineers/
all the associated files in stl format are included...:D
http://grabcad.com/search/library?query=gears

http://grabcad.com has a ton of free files, not only gears.

[Ajcoholic]

Id like to cut my son (who is just shy of 14 months now) some toys incorporating plywood gears. But I fear at his age he will get his fingers pinched.

In a few more months though, at the rate he is progressing, he will be able to handle it :)

I will be back with some gear-toys in the near future!

AJC

[myxpykalix]

Well if he's as smart as his daddy all you have to do is let him pinch his fingers once and he'll figure it out! It's stuff like this that captures their imagination:D

[Ajcoholic]

Well if he's as smart as his daddy all you have to do is let him pinch his fingers once and he'll figure it out! It's stuff like this that captures their imagination:D

I know... my dad let me get hurt, to teach me what to do and what not to. I am just a bit more of a suck. I hate to see his poor little fingers get "pinched".

I think some sort of board with dowels you could place the gears of varying diameters/tooth #'s to get different gear ratios would be neat. Especially as he gets older and his motor skills improve.

I will think up something neat...:D

AJC

[myxpykalix]

Go back thru this thread because i believe someone (I wish i could recall who and give credit) posted some gear files along with a backboard that you could mix and match them and create different configurations. That would be great for the little one and i don't think he will get hurt with any of this stuff anyway, besides you don't want to treat him like a baby do you?;)

Oh wait...he is a baby!:D lol

[Ajcoholic]

Well, since Joseph turned 1 1/2 a few days ago, I decided to get back to the gears... he is really good with his hands, and putting things together. So, I cut some gears from 1/4" baltic birch, and made a 22" by 28" board with 1/2" holes on a 1" grid.

Using that program ( the same one for $26 the OP was talking about) you can select the gear parameters, so I cut some 6 tooth, and some 12 tooth, with 4" and 6" center to center spacing respectively. So you can put the 1/2" pins anywhere on the grid and change the gear layout.

Joseph LOVED it! He was actually crazy for the gears and turning them, more than I expected.

For a few minutes cutting time, its a great toy! My wife loved it too.

AJC

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_0401.jpg


http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_0400.jpg

[myxpykalix]

ok admit it, you had just as much fun turning the gears as he did, didn't you?:eek:
Great job and i hope he grows up and remembers all the cool stuff that Dad made for him when he was a kid....good job:D

[Ajcoholic]

ok admit it, you had just as much fun turning the gears as he did, didn't you?:eek:
Great job and i hope he grows up and remembers all the cool stuff that Dad made for him when he was a kid....good job:D

I have to admit... I probably spent 45 minutes playing with, and re-organizing the gear layout before I brought it home form work... :)

[Ajcoholic]

More gears! Lots more Gears!!

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_0473-1.jpg
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_0476-1.jpg
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_0474.jpg
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_0475-1.jpg

I made the grid from 3/4 BBirch... same 1" hole spacing, 1/2" deep.

All the gears (10, 15 and 20 tooth) have a 1/2" central hole, with another 1/4" hole to pin gears together or the spacer - to stack gears for compound reductions, etc.

AJC

[Brady Watson]

Looks like you are having fun!

It's not even Christmas yet! He's a lucky boy! :)

-B

[Ajcoholic]

Looks like you are having fun!

It's not even Christmas yet! He's a lucky boy! :)

-B

I was using the machine today to do some other stuff, so I figured while it was warmed up, I'd throw a sheet (well, two half sheets) of 1/4" BB on it and cut some more out. :)

He's starting to get the hang of the gears now. Awesome to see, hes not quite 20 months old and very good with his motor skills. :D

[myxpykalix]

Andrew I kind of get the feeling that this is not for the LITTLE BOY but more for the BIG BOY.....am I right?:D

Was this grid and gearset based on the set that (you) or someone else had created and posted some time ago? looks good:)

[myxpykalix]

I'm trying to work with the files from here:
http://www.instructables.com/id/IPhone-Cover-for-Engineers/

it is an iphone cover and thus the gears are small. I want to enlarge them for the size of an ipad. I'm having trouble trying to figure out how to resovle a problem.

The issue i have is that i can import the different gears and give them a Z height thickness of .25" (quarter inch).
When i do that i can load up all the gears on one and enlarge them to the size i want and they will all be relative to each other in size and thickness, no problem.

The problem i'm having is that because the "main body" file is thicker because it has the sides on it when i try to load that up either with the gears on the same page or by itself i can't get it to a size where its "aspect ratio" or size is relative in size to the gears.
It has to be correct or the gears won't mesh or the rivet holes won't match up.

Can you tell me how to figure what the the thickness of the main body file so that i can try to figure out what size i can make it to accomodate the gears?
The problem is the files are stl's and they load up as 1.25" thick files (which they aren't), so the thickness of the "main body" file is unknown.

What i can't resolve is that i can't just resize the main body file by eye or guess because the gears won't mesh or the rivet holes won't match up.

One idea i had was to load the main body file up and measure the distance between centers of rivet holes and try to quantify(?) that to the larger size?

Another thought i had was to cut the sides off the main body so that i'm only dealing with the flat base and see if i can figure it that way?

If you look at the pic you see that the gears when imported are relative in size to each other but the body is not.
I was thinking a clunky way to work this out might be to set the gears together like you see in the picture then take the main body file and enlarge it till you can align the center and rivet holes

Or if you have some ideas on how i can figure this out i'd appreciate it.:confused:

[myxpykalix]

I haven't done it yet but i think i might have figured out how to make this work.

Take the jpg of the gear configuration and line the gears up over top the picture the same way.

Make a square the size of the main body.

take and copy the center holes from each gear exactly where they are relative to the way they are positioned within the main body.

delete the gears and leave only the holes and the outside and i now have a "new" case. I can then do any fancy cutouts in the back if i want. Ami on the right track?:eek: