New indexer and a lot of questions

[tas99]

I’m in the process of installing my new indexer and while that’s under way I thought I’d get familiar with just how this thing works. So, having read a lot of the material and many of the posts I have a lot of questions.
My indexer will be installed parallel to the Y axis so I understand that X zero is at the centerline of the indexer and assume that Y is at the starting point of the blank in the indexer - the head stock is closest to the 0 point of the Y axis. Is that assumption correct? The Z zero is a bit confusing. The Indexer Virtual Tool Instructions say, “All files are cut with the bottom of the bit zeroed at the center of the blank” yet other instructions say to zero to the top of the piece. Which is right? The suggestion to attach a Z zero plate to the top of the tail stock is also confusing. I understand the isolation and wiring but once zeroed to the plate, then what? Do I determine the offset to the centerline and move the tool and then zero?

I’m running the software on my laptop in preview mode and using the [TI] command to create some test files. Starting with the simplest one, “Turning a Blank to Finished Size, Starting position of Turning Pattern”, is that value the distance from Y zero? Assuming I set Y zero at the end of the blank. Second, how does the utility know the size of the bit I’ll be using? And, the value in degrees in the B Display get’s to over 300,000. I assume that each 360 is one turn and something over 300,000 means the piece turns over 1000 times. Sounds logical but is that right? When I create the file and run, it seems to run (I see the position numbers changing) but I don’t see any tool movement on the preview pane. Do I have to set something to see that? When I try and cut the file from inside [TI] it says it can’t find the file. Is that because I saved it in a file other than the default file?

Next I tried carving a profile. The instruction for creating the tool path seem pretty clear but once saved what do I do with the file. If I simply run it the ShopBot will think it’s a standard 2D profile cut, won’t it? And how does that file relate to any of the settings in Indexer Tool for this operation.

I’m sure I’ll have a lot more before I understand this thing and hope you have the patience to share your wisdom.

[jim_vv]

Greetings, Tom

I have benefited greatly from the guys on this forum and will share with you what I can. I am not sure what software you will use to make your parts, but if you use ArtCam Pro, make sure that you have the right post processor. Not having the right one caused me and others a lot of brain damage. Scott from ShopBot had included the latest post processors in a previous forum.

Your Question... "My indexer will be installed parallel to the Y axis so I understand that X zero is at the centerline of the indexer and assume that Y is at the starting point of the blank in the indexer - the head stock is closest to the 0 point of the Y axis. Is that assumption correct?"

My Response... Assuming that you mean the "headstock" is the indexer...Yes

Your Question... "The Z zero is a bit confusing. The Indexer Virtual Tool Instructions say, “All files are cut with the bottom of the bit zeroed at the center of the blank” yet other instructions say to zero to the top of the piece. Which is right?"

My Response... For the Indexer Virtual Tool you will always need to set Z Zero at the center of the blank. So far I have only used the TI to turn square blanks into round blanks.

When I create a model in ArtCam I set my material thickness to half the diameter of my blank and set Z Zero at the "top of block" so I Zero Z on the machine at the top of the blank,

Your Question... The suggestion to attach a Z zero plate to the top of the tail stock is also confusing. I understand the isolation and wiring but once zeroed to the plate, then what? Do I determine the offset to the centerline and move the tool and then zero?

My Response... Here is what I did... I didn't add another Z Zero Plate. I stuck a piece of hardwood to the top of the tail stock with some double stick foam tape. I put a 30 degree V bit in my spindle and then zeroed Z on the hardwood block with my Z Zero Plate with the C2 function. I then used the keyboard to move the tip of the cutter to be as close as possible to the live center in the tail stock and jotted the Z location on the readout on the inside of the door of my computer cabinet. Now when I want to set Z to the center of the blank I just do my zeroing routine on my tail stock, then move the tool over so it doesn't crash into anything and lower Z to my "jotted down" dimension and re zero Z.


3073

Another note on this... I chucked the dead center that came with the indexer into my chuck and moved the cutter's tip over to it to make any adjustments needed to be sure that my indexer's table was level with the machine. (I don't think that there is any other use for the dead center
).

Your Question... "I’m running the software on my laptop in preview mode and using the [TI] command to create some test files. Starting with the simplest one, “Turning a Blank to Finished Size, Starting position of Turning Pattern”, is that value the distance from Y zero?"

My Response... Yes, this is the location where you want the tool to start cutting in relation to Y Zero.

Your Question... Second, how does the utility know the size of the bit I’ll be using?

My Response... I don't know how to answer the tool size question. The software will follow whatever stepover values you enter in which would be based on your cutter. I usually turn blanks round with a 1/2" endmill.

Your Question... And, the value in degrees in the B Display get’s to over 300,000. I assume that each 360 is one turn and something over 300,000 means the piece turns over 1000 times. Sounds logical but is that right?

My Response... Yes.

Your Question... When I create the file and run, it seems to run (I see the position numbers changing) but I don’t see any tool movement on the preview pane. Do I have to set something to see that? When I try and cut the file from inside [TI] it says it can’t find the file. Is that because I saved it in a file other than the default file?

My Response... I have to defer to someone else on this as I haven't played with the preview mode using the indexer. As far as the file location goes... when I set up to turn a blank using TI at the machine, I enter the needed info and save the file with a whatever name I choose and it puts it in the Sbparts folder.

Your Question... "Next I tried carving a profile. The instruction for creating the tool path seem pretty clear but once saved what do I do with the file. If I simply run it the ShopBot will think it’s a standard 2D profile cut, won’t it? And how does that file relate to any of the settings in Indexer Tool for this operation."

My Response... I have to defer to someone else on this as I haven't tried to carve a profile using the TI...only ArtCam.

I hope that I have been of some assistance.

Kind Regards,

JIM

[jim_stadtlander]

Wow, lots of questions there. It does seem overwhelming at first, but tackle one thing at a time to not get to confused. I will try to answere a few....

I find that there are always different situations which require you to zero at the center of the blank , or the surface of the stock. It all depends on what you are doing. Some only do one type of "gizmo" and find that one way works for it , so no need to do the other. I find the need for both.

The starting position of the turning blank is what you are refering to as the Y zero. It's the point at which you want to start the actual turning. Say you want to turn an area six inches long but your stock is 36" long. You could turn that 6" at any position along that 36" length. Yes, you have the right idea with the numbers. They are in degrees. So, 1000 full turns would read as 360,000. Not sure about the preview thing, but it may not be able to do that for indexer files.

Cutting a profile Utility requires you to have a profile already made. Follow the tutorial that is listed in the ( ?? i think) owners manual. It can be found somewhere at this site. During the use of the Utility, it will ask for the profile and then it uses it to make your cut file. Kind of like a two step process.

Hope some of this helps, Jim

[tas99]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the help. It makes a bit more sense now but still a ways to go before I understand all the concepts.

I created files to turn a blank round and one for polygon facets and looking at it the code in the resultant files it seems to make sense. I also created a profile file; after figuring out that the tools calls for the profile file to use later in the routine. I understand the zeroing strategy and the options for doing so.
So far so good but maybe someone can live me a bit more info on the preview pane and if it works in this mode.

Moving on to wrapping text. When answering no to have I created my text file yet I get the appropriate “Calculate Template Size” dialog but no matter what values I enter for “Blank Settings” the values at the bottom are always question marks and when I select create file no file is created in the designated folder. I only see a text file that says this is where the files should be. I’m using a 64 bit system so the ShopBot files are in Program Files (x86), not the usual Program Files. I’m not sure if that makes a difference or not.

Any suggestions?

[bill.young]

Hey Tom,

1) When you click the "create file" button, calculated values should replace the ?'s...that doesn't happen for you? They're only informational and give you the extents of the wrapping template using the values that you input, but they should still appear.

2) I haven't used a 64 bit computer so don't have much in the way of insights...didn't even know they used a different name for the Program Files folder! Have you searched for "wrap_template.dxf" on your computer to see if it's in a different folder?

FYI, there's a new version of the Indexer VT coming out as soon as I hear back from some testers, with some changes to the way stepdowns work and a few other minor things. I'll see if I can figure out this 64 bit issue and include that as well.

Bill

[Brady Watson]

Tom,
The majority of the Virtual Tools (including the Indexer VT) will not work correctly on a 64-bit OS. Most functions in SB3 work OK in 64-bit, but since memory is managed a little differently in x64, you may get booted out doing certain functions. You'll want to use an x32 OS for the Indexer stuff until the 64 bit stuff gets sorted out. Figured I'd chime in and let you know you weren't doing anything wrong...Aspire won't run on an x64 OS either...

-B

[tmerrill]

Brady,

I'm using Aspire everyday on Vista Home Premium 64 bit without issue.

Can you add more detail to your statement.

Tim

[Brady Watson]

Must just be XP Pro x64 then for Aspire.

-B

[tas99]

Ok, I tried the virtual tool on another PC (Vista 32 bit system), same problem. I still only get question marks instead of dimensions when I input data in the "Calculate Template Size" under the "Wrap Text" routine. This can't be a coincidence, I must be doing something wrong.

Any suggestions?

[bill.young]

I'm stumped...when you click the button on the page to create the template it should fill in all those fields with calculated values. What version of the ShopBot control software are you using?

The best thing to do is to send me an email and I'll see if we can work through it.

Oh yeah, did you find the wrap template file?

Bill