Attn:TED HALL

[myxpykalix]

Hello Ted,
In another thread i have been trying to figure a way to get independant axis control by inserting a small lathe between the indexer and tailstock and that presents added expense and work.
And i know independant axis control was brought up before and discussed although i don't recall the answers, I thought before i go to the expense and effort to insert a lathe I would ask where that stands on the priority list? I just didn't want to do all that if it is coming soon so i figure i would ask...is this something i should wait on? thanks!

[ted]

Hello Jack,

Yes ... don't buy anything! Both our Version 201 and 204 Control Cards were developed with the idea of being able to just set an indexer spinning, independently of what the tool is doing. We are currently working on implementing this and several other features in the firmware for these cards, and one will be able to just download and install the update. [Your tool may be slightly older than the Version201, in which case, you should be able to just plug in one of the newer cards.]

I hate to make any promise about date, but this firmware work is going on now and is thus at the very top of the list.

Ted Hall, ShopBot Tools

[myxpykalix]

That sounds exciting! I have a 2006 prt alpha but i know nothing about the type of card(s) or controllers, ect. in my box.

So should i check back with you tomorrow or first of next week? lol...
thanks for that info that saved me a whole lot of time and effort (and expense). I'll look forward to this...

[gerryv]

Jack,

I suspect that, like me, this YouTube clip is representative what you're hoping to get to. I don't know anything about it - just saw it referenced on another forum.

If the fully synchronous 4th axis motion shown in this clip AND continuous, unlimited rotation (beyond 360 degrees) is included in the coming upgrade, I'll be a very happy camper indeed, even if it means a hardware upgrade as well. I'd then be able to forego buying the (metal type) mill and lathe equipment I'm now considering.

A whole new market for Shopbot (hint, hint).

Did I mention this was a hint :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-RzYjSPzP4&feature=related

[myxpykalix]

Gerald,
I checked out the clip you referenced, i've seen it before, but that didn't have anything to do with independant axis movement.

As it stands you cannot tell it to spin your B axis while you manually move either the x,y,z.
My intent is to be able to make designs "on the fly" in combination with certain router bits.

The advantage to that is you can cut a design using say a roundover bit faster then if you were using a "carving" strategy.

[gerryv]

Sounds neat - way over my head at this point though. Hopefully there will be enough other experienced users to convince the SB people that there can be a fair ROI on it.

In my case, I'm hoping that SB's research agrees with what I believe is a golden opportunity to bite into the very large full 3D market currently served almost exclusively by off-shore mills and lathes of questionable quality or by Sherline and Taig for miniature stuff. There's a lot of stuff done out there that does not require a HAAS or Bridgeport.

I think that with SB's quality, heavier duty and available size they could attract a lot of new customers who are frustrated by the size and speed limitations of quality machines like Sherline and Taig. At the risk of saying something naughty I can't think of anything better than using the SB/Vectric software with the full 3D capabilities of that "M" controller program. :-)

That's the day I'll be ordering a new, loaded 48" Buddy Alpha with extended Z axis and indexer - I may want to paint the tailstock blue though...

[myxpykalix]

I think on average there is (or was) about a 6 week wait time so if you order now maybe by the time you get delivery they will have made the changes (i hope, i hope, i hope!) and since this is a software change it will be able to be implemented without having to make any physical modifications to your machine (like adding a lathe, ect).
This sounds like good incentive for both parties to me!
BTW- when you get your indexer let me know so we can get you into making some neat spirals and other stuff. I can make you some toolpaths for some neat designs.

[myxpykalix]

It has been about 6 months and i thought i would revisit this thread to see if this had had timne to be implemented and maybe i just missed it.

If not you can consider this a friendly little poke...thanks

[gerryv]

Jack, I'll share the wrath on this one if it comes (chuckle). I've purposely been on hold with mine but have to admit that the Aspire 2.5 release has me interested again.

[mikeacg]

It got my attention as well! I'm hoping I can get a little help from my fellow botter JR since he has a full-size machine with an indexer in the interim.
Thanks, Jack, for staying on this!!!
Mike

[jim_ludi]

Wondering if Ted has an update on the status of the independent axis control feature for the indexer. I think this feature will be really helpful with some of my indexer projects.

[myxpykalix]

As the old saying goes "The squeaky wheel gets the grease", maybe if those who are interested in this let him know who all might want it might get him to implement it sooner because as of my talk with him, I was the only one who was asking for this and I understand how priorities work....

[khaos]

Squeak squeak.

I have been following this thread with interest as well. I noticed it has grown sorta stale...

[gerryv]

Squeak, squeak. It's why I'm still not buying a new, larger unit. Squeak, squeak ;)

[steve_g]

Squeak, squeak

[myxpykalix]

We are obviously not squeaking loud enough to be heard...

[butch6219]

squeak squeak........ independent axis control feature for the indexer would make my work so much easier

[myxpykalix]

Ted,

Since it has been over a year since we first asked, and i know this is a low priority, i wondered if there is any further movement on getting this implemented?
It seems as if there is interest in this from several of us. I recall you mentioning that it might ba as simple as a firmware update of a small chip install......can you give us any details?
THANKS!

[steve]

Jack, why do you want independent control for the indexer?
Personaly I am more interested in that 5 axis machiny they have been advertising, I can't find it on the web site.

[myxpykalix]

Hi Stephen,
The reason for independant axis control is when you are making designs with beads and coves you can cut the carving time down dramatically if for example you had a large cove or roundover bit that you could just plunge down while your stock rotated. This is similar to what i'd like to do:
http://www.legacycncwoodworking.com/demo-videos/2010/10/14/turning-demo-combining-machining-turning-and-carving-techniq.html

This may not be the best example.

[oddcoach]

Jack you can do that now with an m5 move you just need to know how deep you want to go m5,,,0.5,,1080 this will cut 1/2 inch deep and take 3 complete revolutions to get there
John

[widgetworks_unlimited]

Hi Jack,

I've looked into making an circuit that would plug into the control box to allow independent axis control. After some testing I put the project on hold.

Unfortunately, you may not like what you get...

I hand coded some cut files, just like John mentioned above. They work and they save cut time just like you're hoping, BUT the Alpha Oriental Motors with 1/10 gear reduction get VERY HOT when you run them continuously at high speed.

I was machining 4x4 posts into tapered table legs (approximately 30" long.) With smaller parts you might have better results, as long as you're not running the same file all day long.

[myxpykalix]

Russ,
Talking to Ted long ago he mentioned it might be as simple as a small chip board that needs to be inserted. That was the last i heard over a year ago.

However i do not think that you need to run the indexer at a high speed. Take a look at this video for the legacy:
http://www.legacycncwoodworking.com/demo-videos/2010/10/14/turning-demo-combining-machining-turning-and-carving-techniq.html

you will see that it doesn't need to spin any faster then it already does. On my Legacy ornamental mill i have a rotary motor that spins the part similarly and i can plunge down (with my plunge router attached) and do all this manually and it makes a nice part, if you want to do it all manually!

So I think you are on the right track and need to rethink the speed aspect. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this...:confused:

[widgetworks_unlimited]

Jack,

I was in Virginia at Jay's ShopBot camp and remember your discussion with Ted. While I don't know exactly what the control software is doing behind the screen, I believe the independent axis could be done with programing - no additional hardware needed. It could also be done with a small addition of hardware, as I had contemplated.

The video you're linking to is interesting...

The difference between what they show and what I did was bit size/step over. I was using an 1/8" diameter ball nose bit with a tiny step over, similar to what you'd used for flat 3D carving. They are using a 1 1/2" diameter ball nose, which allows a much larger step over.

I was running my indexer continuously at Jog speed for at least an hour per leg, which resulted in the unwanted heat. If I had used their bit, my feed would have been in the normal cutting range and the total cut time might have been less. The heat problem would have gone away.

Perhaps I'll look into making that circuit again... It would help to know how many other's are using a fourth axis and are interested in this mod.

[myxpykalix]

Russ,
Since we don't seem to get Ted's attention with this renewed thread do you know if you can create a POLL on here? I couldn't see it but i'm sure its right in front of my face....

Maybe a 2 or 3 question/part poll

1) Do you have an indexer?

Then maybe explaining what you could do with independant axis control...

2) Would you pay (?) to have the ability to implement this?

I can already see the capitalistic bulb going off over your head which is great since you have brought other things to market a lot of us use.

However I think it might be better to find out directly from Ted what the status of their mod is so you won't be duplicating efforts already done.
Possibly he/they will see this and update us.....

thanks for your interest and efforts...

[Gary Campbell]

Russ...
You lost Jack when you used the "pay" word. He will be looking for a new ally now! :D

[myxpykalix]

Gary..."I resemble that remark!"....lol

I appreciate a capitalist.....we are ALL capitalists here...I wouldn't mind paying for a small app to do what i want. I think this would open up some time savings for indexer users. Not to mention some possible creative ideas (I have a few).

From our conversations I gathered that the ability to do this is redily available, it just seemed at the time since i was the only one asking about it, it probably took a low priority which i understand.

I can do most all those things i want to do (manually) on the Legacy and with templates so in theory some of this seems simple (but i'm no programmer).:)

[widgetworks_unlimited]

You're right Jack, in theory this is fairly simple. But that doesn't mean it's quick or easy...

I admire your patients and your persistence. :) You'll be the first person I call if I get time to put together a working prototype.