Moving to a smaller shop

[chuckster]

Its odd to say this, but after 3 years of being in a 4000 sq. ft. shop I can honestly say I am looking forward to moving to a smaller shop. The new shop will be 2000 sq. ft., and I'm planning on upgrading the electric before I even move in. I have a PRT Alpha and a 6 hp vac. The shop has 50 amp power which has been run from the house to this shop.The house has 220. So, knowing electricity is not my friend.....does anyone have any ideas on what I should do to upgrade and how much to install into the shop? I do have a large paint booth that I'm sure is 3 phase,but not certain. The paint booth is for sale if anyone is interested!
Thanks in advance!

Chuck

[steve_g]

Chuck

Is your shop attached to the house? If not, will your city allow a separate meter to the shop? If your house was built in the last quarter century you likely have a 200amp service to it and any size of sub panel will still be limited to the 200 amp combined current draw. 2000 sq ft seems like a lot of space to be running on a sub panel, hopefully you can get a separate 200 amp service to it.

My thoughts.

Steve

[MogulTx]

Chuck

I am barely able to run my PRS Alpha w computer, etc., plus lights, plus a 2HP Dust pick up on my 50 Amp set up. If I were you, I would try for at LEAST 100 Amps of 220v single phase. You can get a single phase motor for the paint booth fan, but I would't advise starting it while running the bot if you stay with 50 amps.

I can get a little more out of my shop... I frequently will run a shop vac or a skil saw or something while running the bot- but I am looking to upgrade to a larger shop and more power. Not less!

Good luck!

[chuckster]

Steve- the shop is a separate building and not attached to the house, although the electric is running from the house to the shop. This is a house we are in contract with that happens to have a large shop built next to it. Right now I am renting a 4000 sq ft space. (boo to renting)! I would like to run the separate meter though!

MogulTx- The paint booth is way to big for what I need. I bought it about 5 years ago, and use it only once or twice a month. I would like to downgrade to a smaller booth, perhaps 8' tall x 6 feet wide or so. But yes, I do plan on running more power. I am moving into a smaller shop because 4000 sq ft is way too huge. I have lost more hammers, tapes, and sawhorses! I started in a 1200 sq ft shop which was too small. lets hope 2000 is perfect!!

[steve_g]

Chuck

Hopefully you can have a separate meter... Some cities are funny about multiple meters on a property as firefighters like to know that the power is off when they cut the power to the obvious meter!

Steve

[chuckster]

Steve-This will be my first phone call in the morning, to make sure I can do this BEFORE buying the house! The shop/house is 40 years old and located in a very small township, out in a farming community. Thanks for your input!

[bruce_taylor]

I have a home shop and I put in a 400 amp main with a 200 amp split to the house and a 200 amp split to the shop, one meter. Most places only allow one meter per house. You can put in the larger service and have the power you need though. It could be a bit costly to upgrade but I found it to be a worth while investment. I ran the 2/2/2 wire in conduit under ground and it cost several thousand dollars to upgrade. Three phase power would have been 15K to upgrade so I use some phase converters when needed. I had 60 amps before and was continually blowing the main at the worst time possible.I think 2000 sq ft is a nice size for a shop. Good luck !!

[chiloquinruss]

I'm in rural Oregon and if I had two meters the second would be billed at the much higher commercial rates! Like Bruce I have a 400 amp panel on the house with one meter and it externally has two very large breakers one for the house 200 amp and one for the shop 200 amp. Being rural I also had to pay to have the transformer on the pole at the street upgraded to handle the 400 amp service. Russ

[steve_g]

I was jealous all you folks having 400 amp service... I thought our city limited me to 200 amp. Turns out the reason I'm limited to 200 amps is that's the size equipment the builder installed at the time the house was built. If I want to redo the equipment back to the alley (underground) 400 amp is available to residential customers. I think I'll make do with 200 amp! In the process of looking at my equipment I noticed that the clamp on my grounding rod was busted. The cable company installed some new equipment a few months back... likely they busted the clamp trying to redo their part, but never said anything or fixed it. Grrrrrrr... fixed now.

Steve

[chuckster]

I have a 2:00 appt at the new shop tomorrow. I am bringing all your suggestions with me, as well as info on the machines. Hoping all goes well!!

[bruce_taylor]

After living under powered for many years it is a real luxury to have 200 amps in the shop. I can turn on every tool I have and don't think I would have a problem. And I'm sure it is better for the motors to have the power too.
You really never realize the power issue until it is not enough. Once you have enough it fades back into the things you take for granted.

[chuckster]

Ok, met with the power company. They are going to put a new pole in and bigger wire to the shop at no charge. As of now, they said the wire to the shop can run 100 amps without getting hot, but they would be happy to run bigger wire. So, looks like I am good to go. Closing on the house hopefully April 20th. Will have the shop up and running a few days after that. I cant afford downtime!

[chiloquinruss]

WOW, Chuck you lucked out. My pole / transformer / wire upgrade was about $4500 payable to the power company! :eek: Congrats! Russ

[bruce_taylor]

Thats great !! I would have them put in the largest service they are willing to provide. I suggest putting in the largest 200 amp panel you can find it is easy to add breakers down the road if you have the space as the need arises. I never thought I would fill mine up and its not full yet but I've added alot from when it was first installed.

[chuckster]

Russ, I was very happy to learn this wont be an issue. The electric company was very helpful educating me as to what needs to be done first. I figured it would be expensive, glad its not!
Bruce, I will make sure the wiring is as big as they offer, and I will put in a big box in the shop. I'm looking to add some smaller tools and do away with the larger ones!

[chuckster]

We are the proud new owners of a sweet house and yard as well as the new home of our shop. The 200 amp panel is to be installed within 2 weeks or so. The pole will be stuck in the yard along with 212 feet of wire as well as a new meter to the shop. I am bummed though that I won’t be able to run 3 phase. Not even sure how to run it......maybe a phase converter? I may end up selling both the vacuum as well as the paint booth. Any suggestions on this latest dilemma?

[jerry_stanek]

A rotary phase converter would be the way to go. Run the power out to a panel and once you start it you can have 3 phase at each machine.

[Ajcoholic]

My shop is 5 or 6 km off the main power line here, much too far to run 3 phase.

Since much of my industrial woodworking equipment is not even available on single phase, I am set up with a quite large rotary phase converter, good for 75 HP total, and 25HP as the largest single motor.

I run a 10HP compressor, many machines on 7,5HP (my panel saw, jointer, planer, dust collector, spray booth exhaust fan are all 7.5) as well as many 5hp (10" table saw, radial arm, band resaw, lathe, etc).

Now that I have the shop bot, with a 4hp spindle (single phase) I often run my dust collector and the bot, and many times the compressor and spray booth fan, or the planer and jointer, are working at the same time. Or I am running my wide belt sander (40 hp combined 3 motors).

All that off a standard 200 amp service.

I was a little afraid of the power bill... since my last shop was on 600V/3 phase.

However, my power bills are not really that much more. Maybe $50/month.

I start the phase converter each morning at 7am to 7:30am when I arrive to work, and let it run until I leave at 5pm. 14 months later, no problems.

AJC

[Ajcoholic]

A rotary phase converter would be the way to go. Run the power out to a panel and once you start it you can have 3 phase at each machine.

Thats how my electrical is run. The main 200 amp service feeds a separate 3 phase panel.

That way it is easy to run feeds to either the single phase, or the three phase machinery.

AJC

[gerryv]

You might want to check out Kay brand rotary phase converters tuned for CNC. There is a lot of BS attached to phase converter marketing and quality varies as well. I believe that Kay are US made. Regardless, you'll want to mount your phase converter on some sort of vibration dampener.

[chuckster]

lots of changes.....I have found a Kay phase converter, going to check it out tomorrow. Sold the 3 phase paint booth and will buy a new single phase next month. Really miss vacuum hold down so the phase converter will work! New pole in, new meter to the shop, new transformer on the pole, new 200 amp box in the shop, and we are back in business.