Inlaying on a curved surface?

[myxpykalix]

This is something i've just been wondering about and whether it is even possible?
Lets say i have a curved lid jewelry box and i wanted to vcarve some initials on the curved surface then inlay a contrasting wood in the opposing shape. I assume that your "control" for both parts is the curve profile of the lid, but wasn't sure how you might accomplish something like this?:confused:

I suppose some type of inlace product might be easier?

[CNYDWW]

If it's only a slight curve, use a 60 deg V bit and do a regular vcarve inlay. Then mill the box top with the curve. The distortion should be minimal depending on the size of type of font. You should also be able to distort the text making the top and bottom wider and deeper to compensate slightly. might take a couple trial runs but might be worth it.

Regards
Randy

[paul_z]

The V Inlay process was designed to have only the shoulders of the male and female parts make contact. (This was done to allow a lot of clamping force to wedge the parts in place and eliminate any gaps.) The depth of the contact surfaces can be adjusted by adjusting the start and cut depths on each piece. I think a 60 degree bit would be better than a 90.

Cutting the backing off the male part could be challenging. You might consider milling it off by doing the same 3D cut that created the curved surface originally. I’d be sure to let the glue fully set and then I’d cut in several passes to minimize strain on the inlaid portion of the male part. Think through how you are going the glue the inlay while it is still on the bed of the machine or how you are going to reregister the position of the piece.

There will be some distortion proportional to the curvature but I doubt you will notice it.

Paul Z

[myxpykalix]

Paul,
I've been wanting to try your inlay process for the longest time and then i went and threw a curve into the mix (literally!)

I will use the profile of the curve for the lid as my control vector for the curve of the waste removal. This still is going to take some planning....thanks!:)

[myxpykalix]

Paul, or anyone.
Here is a question...Look at the flourish below. Lets say i want to inlay that shape into a flat surface. Now for a male/female inlay i understand you glue in your contrasting wood and normally you sand it down to a flat surface.

But if i wanted to carve the features of that flourish into the inlay and have it stand proud of the face surface would i:
carve out the female inlay

glue the contrasting wood in having it stand proud of the surface

carve the details of the face of the male inlay

put a vector around the perimeter of the carving and cut that away?

OR
carve out the female inlay

carve the details of the face of the male inlay in a separate board

put a vector around the perimeter of the carving and cut that away and insert it into the female inlay?

i think i "get there" either way but its 3:30AM and i'm tired and not sure i'm explaining it correctly

[paul_z]

First, my apologies to Randy. I seem to have repeated what he said.

There is a person on the Vectric forum who started the 3d V inlays. It might have been turtle49 (Tim Hornshaw). They are quite amazing. I’ve never tried one and don’t know how to help you with that.

I’d strongly recommend you try a simple, flat inlay first using scrap. Cutting the inlay in half (vertical cut) will give you a good feeling for what is going on under the surface.

Paul Z

[rhfurniture]

Jack,
If the curve is fairly gentle 1 way (ie you are not trying to lay it on a ball) you can make it up as 2d, slice off 1.5mm, and vac-bag glue it onto the shape, preferably in the same wood.
R.

[Brady Watson]

The higher-end software will let you project a v-carving toolpath onto a 3D relief...

-B

[myxpykalix]

yes but i guess what confuses me a bit is, i understand how you might create a vcarving pattern on a curved shape but my confusion is how do i make the mating inlay as a "relief" cutting away the waste on a opposing curve to fit into the vcarved portion.
And yes the curve is gentle and i guess i could make a sacrificial sample cut it in half and copy that curve for accuracy.:confused:

[woodshopcnc]

But if i wanted to carve the features of that flourish into the inlay and have it stand proud of the face surface would i:
carve out the female inlay

glue the contrasting wood in having it stand proud of the surface

carve the details of the face of the male inlay

put a vector around the perimeter of the carving and cut that away?


Cut the female then the male proud is the way I would do it. I have never v-carved but have done something similar on a 3D relief. Just make sure your female depth is deeper than the curve when you mill it so there is enough male there.

Stephen

[khaos]

This is something i've just been wondering about and whether it is even possible?
Lets say i have a curved lid jewelry box and i wanted to vcarve some initials on the curved surface then inlay a contrasting wood in the opposing shape. I assume that your "control" for both parts is the curve profile of the lid, but wasn't sure how you might accomplish something like this?:confused:

I suppose some type of inlace product might be easier?

Assuming you are making the box too ... Make your inlay at a thickness that allows the box curve. Cut that into the lid of the box. Glue up, dry. Then carve the lid curve(s). This will allow a complex form with the inlay. :)

Limitation with this method is depth for fine bits.

[myxpykalix]

I'm not sure i fully understand your explanation Joe. Let me see if i interpret it right:
Firstly, i am carving the lid and making the box. Lets say the lid is .75" thick.

What i want to do is make a circle with some initials in the center. If i understand you correctly you are saying to carve the outline of the initials way deep or all the way thru the lid.

Then make the initials as a .75" tall insert and insert that into the cutout for the lid.
Then carve the curve into the lid? :confused:

I think i understand the theory that rather then trying to match up a male/female curved inlay then just make both straight and deep enough so that when you carve the curve into the lid you only carve enough way to still have a full inlay?:confused: if that's it, it makes sense:)

[Ajcoholic]

Wont doing it that way introduce a distortion when cutting the curve? You are taking a flat inlay, and arching the top - so a circle would actually look like an ellipse from any view other than directly from the top. If that matters...

AJC

[khaos]

I'm not sure i fully understand your explanation Joe. Let me see if i interpret it right:
Firstly, i am carving the lid and making the box. Lets say the lid is .75" thick.

What i want to do is make a circle with some initials in the center. If i understand you correctly you are saying to carve the outline of the initials way deep or all the way thru the lid.

Then make the initials as a .75" tall insert and insert that into the cutout for the lid.
Then carve the curve into the lid? :confused:

I think i understand the theory that rather then trying to match up a male/female curved inlay then just make both straight and deep enough so that when you carve the curve into the lid you only carve enough way to still have a full inlay?:confused: if that's it, it makes sense:)

You got it! Any distortion in the inlay looks natural because it matches the surface. :)

[myxpykalix]

Joe, in theory that sounds easier then trying to make a concave insert and getting the curve exactly correct on both especially if you are talking about a traditionally shallow inlay.

[myxpykalix]

Andrew i don't think it will look distorted, possibly with a steep curve but this will be shallow. The only thought i had was will there be enough room to get the tool in if i am trying to make an insert or a vcarving say .5" deep?:confused:

[Ajcoholic]

If you use a V bit, you will definitely have varying widths of the inlay as the deeper the curve cuts the wider the V will show (if that makes sense..)

AJC

[cnc_works]

It just occurred to me that if you were to tilt the box in increments and engrave each logical section under the bit at a time, you should be able to maintain a pretty uniform depth of cut for vcarving. You would have to jig up to maintain the positioning and depth (or reset the depth for each partial rotation), but with patience it could work.

[myxpykalix]

Don,
If i were going to do it that way I think it would be way easier for me to just mount it to a jig and put it on my indexer. I don't think the curve is going to be that drastic but rather then do what you suggest I think the indexer would be way simpler, which gets us the same results...good tip Don:D

[cnc_works]

Hi, Jack...I forgot you had an indexer, but wouldn't the extended diameter of the box top be too large to maintain z on your indexer?

[myxpykalix]

No I can do a 12" wide column and this lid and the curve would be alot less than that.
I was thinking about using these as a jig. They are called pilaster dogs. I use them on the Legacy to round over flat stock. I think i can use these to hold the piece and do the arc i want.