Wood dye-EPIC FAIL!

[myxpykalix]

I bought 3 different dyes, did some mixing and was extremely disappointed with the colors and the results. Now what i had was some curly maple that i cut round rings out of, stacked and glued them. Sanded to 220.

I think i know the problem. I was trying to coat it and it was going into endgrain instead of surface grain(?) and kept soaking it in. I did not get the sheen of a glossy coat but flat features of a stain or paint. Very disappointed. How can i fix this to show the curly maple?:confused:

[Brady Watson]

The glue that squirted out is preventing coverage in that area that is lighter. The end grain will suck it up...use a sanding sealer (shellac with no wax) then use the dye over it. Try a piece of scrap to be sure. Any clear coat (including shellac) will bring the depth of the grain back out again.

I've had good luck with the Behlin non-grain raising dyes in the past. Nice consistent results - even on different species. Somewhere I remember a wood 'tint', that was colored clear spray that could be used to tint a wood rather than staining it (essentially dyed clear coat). This would let you lay a piece of acrylic over the wood and test the tint to see if it is what you want before you commit to it. Not sure who or where to get the stuff now...

-B

[myxpykalix]

should i sand this off or just cover with shellac and reapply dye? I have a feeling it is pretty well soaked into the wood.

[michael_schwartz]

Dye stains will look rather dull until you apply a clear coat. The color will also be less intense when they dry but will return to more of its wet look, when you apply a top coat over it. Make a sample, and seal with 1 lb cut dewaxed shellac Apply a couple coats of your clear finish of choice, and see if it looks closer to what you want.

With end grain you can sand to a higher grit then the face grain to help lessen the penetration. Make sure to sand very thoroughly, with your final grit. That will effect penetration as well. You could experiment with a wash coat but there are many variables, depending on what your trying to achieve, and what materials, and methods your using.

Whenever I color figured woods, I apply a coat, and then sand the wood to remove some of the color from the non figured areas. Then I apply a second coat whatever dye or stain. This exploits the "blotching" you would try to avoid with non figured woods, deepening the color of the figure.

[Ajcoholic]

Jack,
The dye type stains are a different animal. i dont personally agree with pre-seal wood before applying an NGR stain. Reason is, the alcohol will pool into fine droplets (if applied with a spray gun) or smear if wiped on, and the whole point of a dye is to penetrate into the surface of the wood and give the depth that only these types of stains do.

Now, the thing is, they ONLY show the true colours and reflectiveness when wet, ie, you have to apply a clear coat over the stain to show both the stains true colour and see the grains, etc.

Applying these with a brush or rag is really not the way to go. They are meant to be sprayed on, with a very fine air cap/tip as to allow a finely adjusted spray pattern.

AJC

[michael_schwartz]

If you can spray, you would want to lightly mist the dye on in light coats. just enough to get it into the wood. It may take a couple applications to get even color. If you apply too much, it would defeat the purpose since it would start to soak in unevenly, just as if you brushed, or applied with a rag. You would not want to wipe the dye off.

I have never tried the following method, but I have heard of people using a cheap spray bottle, the kind used for cleaning to apply dye, and then wiping. I will bet this would produce more even results than a brush, or a rag. This might help you control how much you apply to the end grain if you don't have a real spray setup.

[dlcw]

Like Michael says, wood finished with dye looks horrible until you clear coat it. I never show a customer the interim results of the wood dyeing process as they would probably fire me because it does really look ugly.

[jTr]

Jack,
I use gallons of this stuff each year, and couldn't imagine being without. Here's what I'd do:

1> Sand the job as it is, paying particular attention to the glue lines - they need to go away. Use a damp rag to re-wet and re-inspect those areas.
Your concern for depth of penetration of color brings up a good point - the curly areas will retain some, as they are in fact end grain of varying degrees. As Michael stated, this is good - curl will pop even more!

2> Fully wet /wipe/blend a new layer of dye. If you are happy with the look as the dye is wet, let dry, apply seal coat.

Be sure you are using an H2O or H2O/Alcohol mix for direct wiping application with your intent to enhance figure on a freshly prepared surface such as this.

As most others indicated - trust the color you see while the dye is still wet- it will come back to life after that dewaxed shellac sealcoat.

If you need help with a minor color shift after sealcoat, just ask - there are some easy methods to dial in the color further prior to topcoating. I rarely send a purely dyed piece out of the finish room.

Don't give up!

Jeff

[bbrozo]

I've used the Transtint aniline dyes a fair amount and swear by them. Instead of the stain sitting on the surface as you might see with a pigment stain, they tend to soak in to the wood.

But, I've also wanted to undo the stain a few times. What should work, I've used this technique a few times, (so you don't have to sand the heck out of it) is to use a 50% mixture of household bleach and water. You will probably want to do this outside and just flood the piece with the bleach mixture. Let it sit for a few minutes and then rinse off completely with water. Also, do it in the shade so the mixture does not dry on the surface.

You should see the stain completely vanish.

Afterwards, give the piece several days to thoroughly dry.

Let me know how it works...
Bill

[stumpgrinder]

Looks like you have all end grain there, and end grain soaks up the stain and makes it hard to see the figure. I think you would be happier with the results on wood that was mostly face grain. We use the trans tint dyes on our mandolins all rubbed with a rag, and they do look really bland before they have any finish on them. Here is a picture of a mandolin I did with trans tints. You can see the huge difference with just a couple of coats of varnish.

[myxpykalix]

Lauri,
That definitely is a difference. As you point out mine is all endgrain where yours is facegrain which i think is my biggest problem. Even with a glassy glaze finish it still is soaking it up like a sponge and not giving me any kind of sheen.
I think at this point it is a lost cause.
I am going to try one last thing. I have some buffing wheels and compounds for bowls that i might try. The only thing is some of you have said not to use a wax based shellac and these compounds for the buffing are all waxes.:confused:

[Michaelodunk]

Trans tints are very powerful, mix your color very very thin your can put on
multiple coats if you want to make it darker. If you spray, the color will tend to
color the wood evenly, if you wipe it on the grain will pop more. The color has to be pretty light or all the end grain turns to dark. But you know that.:rolleyes:

[bahed]

That looks fabulous. Did you hand rub the black on wood that had no other previous treatment, besides sanding? Was anything else done after the black, other than light sanding before the amber-ish color was applied ? And was that also hand-rubbed or sprayed ? That finish will REALLY pop after it gets buffed out.

Thanks for the pix and explanation.

[stumpgrinder]

That looks fabulous. Did you hand rub the black on wood that had no other previous treatment, besides sanding? Was anything else done after the black, other than light sanding before the amber-ish color was applied ? And was that also hand-rubbed or sprayed ? That finish will REALLY pop after it gets buffed out.

Thanks for the pix and explanation.

Brent, if you are talking about our mandolin, we sanded to 220, then hand rubbed an amber base over the entire instrument. Next I just hand rubbed the brown until it ended up the way I liked. No black was used, the end grain in the curl sucks up the stain making it really dark, while the face grain in the curl does not accept it as much. The varnish we were using also imparts a slight amber hue as well.