ER 25 collets

[fredtoo]

I ordered two Techniks ER 25 1/4" collets from a vendor and received two collets with no identification marks other than 1/4". When questioned the vendor claims the no-name collets are made by T-Tool in Germany and the Techniks are Chinese. The vendor admitted the warehouse pulled the wrong p/n and have offered an exchange. What would you do?

[Ajcoholic]

I ordered two Techniks ER 25 1/4" collets from a vendor and received two collets with no identification marks other than 1/4". When questioned the vendor claims the no-name collets are made by T-Tool in Germany and the Techniks are Chinese. The vendor admitted the warehouse pulled the wrong p/n and have offered an exchange. What would you do?

Try them out? I bought some extras and in different sizes. They all seem to work the same to me. Long term, I dont know as I have only had my router 2 months.

AJC

[Brady Watson]

What would you do?

1) Send them back.

2) Order the correct ER25 Fractional collets from either ShopBot or Precision Drive Systems.

El cheapo collets or collets that do BOTH fractional and metric, are a BIG no-no on HSD & Colombo spindles. There is not enough thread to fully collapse these collets, and you will add your name to the list of people who found this out the hard way...by needing to use a cut off wheel to cut the nut off of the end of the spindle because you can't get it back off again...even with a cheater bar.

-B

[Ajcoholic]

1) Send them back.

2) Order the correct ER25 Fractional collets from either ShopBot or Precision Drive Systems.

El cheapo collets or collets that do BOTH fractional and metric, are a BIG no-no on HSD & Colombo spindles. There is not enough thread to fully collapse these collets, and you will add your name to the list of people who found this out the hard way...by needing to use a cut off wheel to cut the nut off of the end of the spindle because you can't get it back off again...even with a cheater bar.

-B

So how do you know if you have a collet that does "both"? I bought some collets through a reputable supplier up here in Canada I purchase tooling from, and they sent me some exactly like the shopbot ones, and one that was branded differently (I needed a 3/8 collet). It works fine - but how does one know if you have one of the collets you shouldnt be using?

AJC

[Brady Watson]

Fractional sizes will have '3/8' stamped or laser engraved on the large end of the collet. Same with 'universal' collets, but they will say either 3/8-10 on them or 9-10mm. The really cheap ones may indeed say 3/8 on the end, but the shank to collet fit will either be too tight or loose compared with the 1/4 and 1/2 collets that came with your spindle.

It's very enticing to buy a whole set of fractional collets at a cheap price thinking, "What the heck...I'll only use them from time to time anyway" - rather than paying $20+ for just one proper collet. I'm not saying that you can't get lucky or be OK with the cheaper ones...I am saying that it is really hard to tell if you are going to run out of thread before fully collapsing the collet before you go too far...So keep that in mind if you do try one of the cheaper ones.

I've been called out on several occasions to 'help get my collet nut off!' - and I did this in my own shop several years ago. It's not fun...So I am hoping to head off anyone that might get into this situation themselves because it isn't pleasant - especially if you are in the middle of production!

-B

[jTr]

Just recieved a 3/8" ordered from Magnate -Anyone know if these are OK? Collet box says made in Taiwan. Stamped 3/8" and measures exactly that w/digital caliper. Paid $35 + S/H.

Jeff

[Brady Watson]

Just compare it to your existing collets. If you chuck it up and tighten down your existing collets, does the new one feel similar when it is chucked up and snugged?

If it seems like a lot of turns on the nut to get it to grip the tool, then don't use it. It is probably fine.

-B

[Ajcoholic]

Just before this was posted I bought some nuts, a wrench and collets from an Ebay seller.

I did purchase some extra collets and nuts from a tooling supplier here in Canada, the nuts were $70 and the collets $35. Brand was the same as what I received with the spindle from SHopbot.

The brand I bought on ebay is "Shars". Three nuts, at about $10/each. The machining looks very good, and they work just fine. The wrench is heavier duty than the supplied one from shopbot with a molded vinyl handle (which makes changed much easier on the hand/palm). I think the wrnch was also about $10.

I got a set of collets in 1/8 to 1/2" in 1/32 increments. They came yesterday. Today I took a good look at them, they are indeed incremental (ie, that 1/4" marked is actually a slip fit for the 1/4", 3/8 and 1/2 are the same)
The others I dont really have a need for yet but for the whole set was less than buying three separate collets.

Again the machining looks very good, and there are no burrs or roughness. Tried some today as I was making some signs. No problems.

I think the separate collets are something like $10/pc.

LOng term I will see what lasts longer. I will try and use them all the same amount of time.

AJC

[chiloquinruss]

As a hobby machine I don't put near the strain or use that most of you do but I have had excellent luck with a set of er25 collets I got from Micro-Mark. When I got mine they were on sale but right now they are $110 for a set of 15! That's only $7.33 each. They work great for my uses. Russ

http://www.micromark.com/er25-collet-set-r8-shank,9730.html

PS I didn't need or use the r8-shank but at the price I didn't care! :)

[Ajcoholic]

Ill buy the R8 part off of you if you want to sell it... I have a Mill with an R8 quill and then I could use my ER25 collets in that :)

AJC

[chiloquinruss]

Now ya' see this is educational! I knew it wasn't a 'shank' but I also didn't know it was called a quill, thanks. I think I have it in the big toolbox, I'll look in the morning. Russ

[Ajcoholic]

Now ya' see this is educational! I knew it wasn't a 'shank' but I also didn't know it was called a quill, thanks. I think I have it in the big toolbox, I'll look in the morning. Russ

I have always called the "part that moves up and down" in a drill press or vertical miller a quill... not sure if thats proper or not. But thats what some of my machinist books call it.

The collet holder shank is R8 taper. It makes sense?! :)

AJC

[Brady Watson]

I have always called the "part that moves up and down" in a drill press or vertical miller a quill... not sure if thats proper or not. But thats what some of my machinist books call it.
AJC

Yep...Don't let these woodworkers :mad: give you any lip. They call end mills 'blades' for crying out loud! :D (Well not these guys...but many do!)

A 'quill' usually contains a spinning spindle shaft, as is the case with a milling machine or drill press. A 'spindle' is actually the main shaft in your spindle/router. A 'taper' is the shape of the spindle's drive input (EG - R8) and the 'tool holder' is what holds the collet (ER25 taper). Our router/spindles have the tool holder integral with the spindle/main shaft itself.

-B

[sailfl]

I wish you would share the company that you purchased the collets so we can make our own decision to buy or not to buy.

Or do I need to send a PM.

Thanks

[Ajcoholic]

I wish you would share the company that you purchased the collets so we can make our own decision to buy or not to buy.

Or do I need to send a PM.

Thanks

If you are referring to me, the ebay seller I dealt with goes by the name discount_machine

[chiloquinruss]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-1-8-9-16-ER25-ER-25-COLLETS-SET-MILLING-LATHE-0004-/330373780269?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item4cebcfd32d

[Ajcoholic]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-1-8-9-16-ER25-ER-25-COLLETS-SET-MILLING-LATHE-0004-/330373780269?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item4cebcfd32d

That is the set I purchased...

AJC

[Brady Watson]

Those are precisely the collets you should avoid...Keep the wizzer wheel and discs handy. I tried to warn ya! :rolleyes:

-B

[Ajcoholic]

Those are precisely the collets you should avoid...Keep the wizzer wheel and discs handy. I tried to warn ya! :rolleyes:

-B

Brady,
The collets are identical in every way (measurement wise) to the other ones I have. They are not undersize, ie, a 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" cutter is a nice slip fit in the collet just like the ones that came with the spindle.

Although the ad says they will take a range of sizes, each collet is indeed sized for the imperial measurement stamped on it.

The only difference that I can see, with the Shar collets VS the other ones, is that the inside bore is the same diameter for the entire length of the collet for the smaller sizes. On the ones I received with the machine and spindle, the 1/4" collets are only 1/4" for the lower 2/3, and then a larger diameter for the upper 1/3.

AJC

[Brady Watson]

I would just be cautious...because there isn't enough thread on the nut to fully collapse some of those 'xtra' collets.

Kinda related to this is an ER25 torque wrench...it ensures that you are torquing your collet nut to the proper range. Guys running production should get one. Techniks sells them. Recommended torque range for an ER25 nut is 70-85 ft-lbs...no higher.

-B

[Ajcoholic]

Not to beat a dead horse.. but I used two sizes of the Shars collets today, for about 6 bit changes and 4 hours of run time.

Absolutely no issues, they are for all intents and purposes the same imperial sizes, and fit the spindle just the same as the "stock" provided ones.

Again, this is pertaining to the Shars brand I bought off the ebay seller, and with any other brand you are best to check as Brady suggested if they will work or not...

I will continue to use them, and if I have any issues in the future I will certainly post. They are supposed to be hardened properly, so I would think they are going to hold up the same... but time will tell.

AJC

[mcmark]

So Brady, no problems with PDS collets in an HSD 2.2HP spindle, correct? I need to buy one of each in 1/8th and 3/8 and I would rather spend $46 than $80.

Thanks
Mark

[MogulTx]

I have been using a couple ebay collets for about 6 months on my 4HP spindle. They work great. I will probably be replacing the 1/4" the soonest. It is the one that gets lots of tool changes. The 1/2" doesn't get many changes and is used less than 25% of the time.

My 1/8" and 3/8" don't get used at all right now.

MGM

[Ajcoholic]

I've also been using the Shars ones I got from the ebay seller, a lot as well. I actually prefer them to the others that came with the spindle, as they hold the bits snugly (so they don't drop out of the collet) when I am tightening up the nut.

I have been using the 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 and 5/8.

AJC