Pulling my hair out

[donek]

I have run a PR machine since 1999. Aside from occasional and expected worn out parts, it has worked flawlessly.

I am still unable to use the PRS Standard machine we purchased this year for production or prototyping. The computer will loose communication with the machine in the middle of a job or stall while in the middle of the part, loosing steps, and then restart. I have grounded the dust collection system as recommended by Shopbot. I have tried running the machine from a different computer and reinstalling the operating system on said computer. None of this seems to work. The new machine is sitting less than 4 feet from the other machine. I have no idea how one could be experience more electrical noise than the other. Given they are in an open shop and there's rarely any other machinery operating in that shop when being used, this seems like a very unlikely problem.

The only thing I can identify as the problem is the Windows multi-tasking ability is simply deciding to go and perform some other task while the machine is running. The computers I have used for the PRS vastly exceed the requirements stated by Shopbot. I am using Windows XP. What operating systems are others using? Is there not some method of getting windows to shut down all multi-tasking while the shopbot software is running? Have I got it all wrong? Please help.

[Brady Watson]

What's your communication speed when you run Diagnostic\SpeedTest.exe in the SB3 folder?

Your WinXP installation should be absolutely 'vanilla' - meaning, there should be nothing installed looking for updates, including Windows Update etc. Your USB cable must be less than 12' long and it must be plugged into a USB 2.0 self powered hub. If you have the IOGear one from SB and are using it, throw it in the trash. Go get another one of a different brand anywhere. If you are running a Dell, get a PCI / USB 2.0 expansion card and install it. Then plug new hub into that. Then run SpeedTest.exe again & see where you are...

The PR uses a much lower com speed, runs on DOS (unless you upgraded to a PRT box) and uses a DB9 Serial connection. The PRS has a much higher COM requirement in order to get both resolution and speed out of it. If you shore up your computer & communications using the parts I described above, the hiccups should be a thing of the past.

-B

[donek]

What's your communication speed when you run Diagnostic\SpeedTest.exe in the SB3 folder?

Your WinXP installation should be absolutely 'vanilla' - meaning, there should be nothing installed looking for updates, including Windows Update etc. Your USB cable must be less than 12' long and it must be plugged into a USB 2.0 self powered hub. If you have the IOGear one from SB and are using it, throw it in the trash. Go get another one of a different brand anywhere. If you are running a Dell, get a PCI / USB 2.0 expansion card and install it. Then plug new hub into that. Then run SpeedTest.exe again & see where you are...

The PR uses a much lower com speed, runs on DOS (unless you upgraded to a PRT box) and uses a DB9 Serial connection. The PRS has a much higher COM requirement in order to get both resolution and speed out of it. If you shore up your computer & communications using the parts I described above, the hiccups should be a thing of the past.

-B
Man Brady. Always an answer from you. Why aren't you working tech support at Shopbot?

[donek]

What's your communication speed when you run Diagnostic\SpeedTest.exe in the SB3 folder?

Your WinXP installation should be absolutely 'vanilla' - meaning, there should be nothing installed looking for updates, including Windows Update etc. Your USB cable must be less than 12' long and it must be plugged into a USB 2.0 self powered hub. If you have the IOGear one from SB and are using it, throw it in the trash. Go get another one of a different brand anywhere. If you are running a Dell, get a PCI / USB 2.0 expansion card and install it. Then plug new hub into that. Then run SpeedTest.exe again & see where you are...

The PR uses a much lower com speed, runs on DOS (unless you upgraded to a PRT box) and uses a DB9 Serial connection. The PRS has a much higher COM requirement in order to get both resolution and speed out of it. If you shore up your computer & communications using the parts I described above, the hiccups should be a thing of the past.

-B
I am using a dell.
This card is rated well:
http://www.amazon.com/IOGEAR-5-Port-Hi-Speed-Card-GIC251U/dp/B0000BZ2WA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334197385&sr=8-1
Does it look good to you?
This seems like overkill on the expansion hub. I'm not finding anything that claims to be self powered. Does this look right to you:
http://www.amazon.com/Plugable-USB-Port-Power-Adapter/dp/B00483WRZ6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334197056&sr=8-1

[bleeth]

Also go to the black viper web site and follow the articles links to cleaning XP services.

[Brady Watson]

Any old PCI to USB 2.0 card is fine. Even the Belkin ones Staples sells. Same with the self-powered hub...Wallymart, Target, RadioShank etc...Shouldn't pay more than $20 for a hub.

-B

[jerry_stanek]

I see he said he was running a Dell. Isn't that one of the computers that was having trouble with comm errors.

[donek]

I just ran speed tests on the dell. Without the USB hub shopbot provided I get efficiencies in the 50s. With it, I'm 73% to 77%. It's early morning and for some inexplicable reason, I seem to get better results in the morning than afternoon. Windows updates are not turned off, but set to take place at 6:00pm, after I'm done for the day.

[adrianm]

I use a Dell with the ShopBot supplied IOgear hub and my speed test results are always about 73%.

Never have any trouble with my 'bot so for what's it worth I'd say your problems are not with the PC being a Dell or the Shopbot hub.

You have the updates set for after you've finished working but is that just the install? You may have it set to download in the background but not install until that time.

If you're having different results during the day that would seem to indicate temperature or power fluctuations to me.

[donek]

I use a Dell with the ShopBot supplied IOgear hub and my speed test results are always about 73%.

Never have any trouble with my 'bot so for what's it worth I'd say your problems are not with the PC being a Dell or the Shopbot hub.

You have the updates set for after you've finished working but is that just the install? You may have it set to download in the background but not install until that time.

If you're having different results during the day that would seem to indicate temperature or power fluctuations to me.

The temperature in the shop is not changing more than 5 degrees throughout the day at this point. It is likely to change a lot more in the summer. I am in a rural location and have my own transformer at the front of the property, so nobody else could really be affecting my power. We are not running different numbers of machines throughout the day either.

[donek]

I use a Dell with the ShopBot supplied IOgear hub and my speed test results are always about 73%.

Never have any trouble with my 'bot so for what's it worth I'd say your problems are not with the PC being a Dell or the Shopbot hub.

You have the updates set for after you've finished working but is that just the install? You may have it set to download in the background but not install until that time.

If you're having different results during the day that would seem to indicate temperature or power fluctuations to me.

How many lines of code in your programs? I have successfully run basic profiling parts that take less than 5 minutes to run, but when I run a really long file, I tend to have problems.

[adrianm]

How many lines of code in your programs? I have successfully run basic profiling parts that take less than 5 minutes to run, but when I run a really long file, I tend to have problems.

It could well be a temperature problem then. A year or so ago I had problems with my 'bot that were caused by the temperature in the control cabinet getting too high while cutting long jobs (over two hours).

Support suggested adjusting the current setting on the drivers to reduce the heat generated. But in the end I solved the problem by placing a large fan behind the control box, angled to blow across the heat sink fins.

[donek]

It could well be a temperature problem then. A year or so ago I had problems with my 'bot that were caused by the temperature in the control cabinet getting too high while cutting long jobs (over two hours).

Support suggested adjusting the current setting on the drivers to reduce the heat generated. But in the end I solved the problem by placing a large fan behind the control box, angled to blow across the heat sink fins.

Just ran a 15 minute part 6 times in a row, cutting air with no problems. I plan to make the same test this afternoon, as afternoon seems to be when the problem has reared it's ugly head. My luck, it will work just fine until I until I actually start cutting a part.

[Brady Watson]

Have you called SB support about this? You paid for it...might as well use it.

-B

[michael_schwartz]

I had problems with my newer standard before. Now I jog at 8+ IPS without thinking twice. I could probably even faster, but I am not sure if it is recommended.
I have been surfacing my spoil board at 8 IPS as well. I ran for 5 hours while machining my MDF vacuum plenum (lots of dust, and static), with no loss of com.

Make sure there is no mechanical reason your loosing steps either, such as misaligned rails, or overly tight v bearings on the Y axis, etc...

Hardware Side.

My setup is an off lease lenovo think center M55p 8808 purchased for a grand total of $149.99 from pcexchange.com with xp pro. The configuration I bought has a 1.86 ghz core two duo, 1gb ddr2 ram, and USB 2.0. It did automatically assign my keyboard, and mouse to a different interface, than the shopbot.

I am using a powered DLink USB 2.0 hub, that I had. Both the Computer, and USB hub are plugged into a UPS (uninterrupted power supply)

Software Side.

Windows XP pro. PC exchange didn't install too much ****, so I only had to remove a couple of programs. I went on a rampage and disabled everything, I could in windows preferences.

I then followed the black viper bare bones configuration for disabling windows services. I will offer the following disclaimer, that if you are not comfortable tampering with the more arcane areas of windows, you may do more harm than good. I had to turn two services back on, which required a couple minutes of troubleshooting.

[donek]

Have you called SB support about this? You paid for it...might as well use it.

-B
They called me this morning. Someone will be in Denver next week servicing someone elses machine and they have offered to come out and solve the problems. I did run some aluminum on it today. It seemed not to have any noticeable problems while running, but upon measuring, it lost a lot of steps in the Z. The techniques I used for machining aluminum do result in a lot of z movement, but still .050 lost in the z while cutting a part that fits inside a 3in by 2in rectangle. I certainly hope they get it going error free.

[dhunt]

Windows updates are not turned off, but set to take place at 6:00pm, after I'm done for the day.The computer that runs your ShopBot is hooked up to the internet???? :eek:
.

[jerry_stanek]

What other services are you running on that computer. It is not just the windows updates it is other programs that log on to search for updates.

[Brady Watson]

The techniques I used for machining aluminum do result in a lot of z movement, but still .050 lost in the z while cutting a part that fits inside a 3in by 2in rectangle. .

There is a steadfast rule when machining aluminum: You NEVER plunge straight down into a cut & you NEVER drill. You ALWAYS gradually ramp into the cut by using a ramp option when profile cutting or pocketing.

You are ramping into the cut aren't you?

-B

[donek]

There is a steadfast rule when machining aluminum: You NEVER plunge straight down into a cut & you NEVER drill. You ALWAYS gradually ramp into the cut by using a ramp option when profile cutting or pocketing.

You are ramping into the cut aren't you?

-B

I have cut a lot of aluminum with the PR, but that machine drives down based on weight as much as anything. Too fast and the y-car lifts a bit. I believe the lost z-steps on the new machine were due to plunging. Unfortunately, I have to peck drill a number of holes. slowing the z down from .3 to .2 in per second seems to have corrected the issue on the parts cut today.