French Polish Finish

[tlempicke]

I am about to make a dashboard for an antique (1932) Rolls Royce. The finish on the original builder card shows that it had a "French Polish" finish.
What in the world might that be? I have a couple of gueses, but does anyone know for sure and also how do I go about that?

[kurt_rose]

This may help you Tom
http://woodworking.about.com/od/finishing/p/FrenchPolishing.htm

[steve_g]

Tom

The Link that Kurt Gave is exactly how we were taught to do a "French" polish. I've only done it on lathe turned projects... The spinning lathe makes it a lot easier! Good Luck... I think this is where the term "elbow grease" started!

SG

[ssflyer]

It's a lot of work, but the results can be really beautful. It's how a lot of high end guitars were done...

[jerry_stanek]

I'm Polish and I don't shine

[Ajcoholic]

Padding on a shellac finish, using a small cotton ball wrapped in a cloth and pumice or rottenstone to buff in between coats and fill the pores.

It is a very traditional way to achieve a very smooth, very shiny finish. As stated, used a lot on old instruments, and furniture.

The drawback is that it is very easy to damage a shellac finish. In an antique car, I dont think you are going to abuse it though :)

AJC

[mtylerfl]

I refinished two pianos about 15 years ago using the French Polish method. One was a rather plain (no decorative carving)1920's upright "bar" piano (which I gave away to a friend) and the other (an upright WITH decorative carving) belonged to my wife's great-grandmother...made in 1864, and we have it in our dining room area.

I found it didn't take long to get the hang of the technique and when I look at the piano, I still can't believe how great the finish turned out. I did apply paste wax after a month or so and it is a very durable finish.

Each piano took about 2 months to do (in my spare time) as I had to completely disassemble each one, remove the old black/crazed finish (using a homemade 'Homer Formby' formula shared with me by a piano rebuilder), then do the French Polish and reassemble.

Learned a lot, but likely won't ever do again. :)

[joe]

Andrew has the process down correct.

Here's how it worked for me: The Shellac needs to be cut with alchohol.by about 10%. A large wad of cotton, about the size of two golf balls, is wrapped in a lint free cotton rag. Roll this up into a ball. It's the ball which is used to apply the shellac. Dip it in your solution and begin to go over the complete surface in round circles. The shellac will be drying quickly behind you. You reduce the size of the circles and continue going over and over the surface. At a point you will see the most beautiful surface sheen develop. This is the tricky time in the process. You've got to keep the shellac ball damp enough to apply a little extra. For a 12"X12" mahagony panel will take about 45 minutes.

What your doing is filling all the grain and piling on more shellac. Like Andrew said, this is a soft surface and will ring if a wet glass is set on it.

It seems to me you must start with fresh shellac. It sets in half the time the store bought stuff in the can.

Joe

PS:

If anyone is interested let me know and we could do some and post photo's. No one but idiots still do this kind of stuff. Count me in.

[joe]

Andrew has the process down correct.

Here's how it worked for me: The Shellac needs to be cut with alchohol.by about 10%. A large wad of cotton, about the size of two golf balls, is wrapped in a lint free cotton rag. Roll this up into a ball. It's the ball which is used to apply the shellac. Dip it in your solution and begin to go over the complete surface in round circles. The shellac will be drying quickly behind you. You reduce the size of the circles and continue going over and over the surface. At a point you will see the most beautiful surface sheen develop. This is the tricky time in the process. You've got to keep the shellac ball damp enough to apply a little extra. For a 12"X12" mahagony panel will take about 45 minutes.

What your doing is filling all the grain and piling on more shellac. Like Andrew said, this is a soft surface and will ring if a wet glass is set on it.

It seems to me you must start with fresh shellac. It sets in half the time the store bought stuff in the can.

Joe

PS:

If anyone is interested let me know and we could do some and post photo's. No one but idiots still do this kind of stuff. Count me in

[mtylerfl]

Yep, the paste wax prevents water rings and doesn't take away from the beautiful sheen. Excellent way to make a "vulnerable" shellac finish somewhat bullet-proof.

I haven't even thought about the technique in years, but it's almost like you get the "feel" for it once you get started. Joe did a good job describing it...that's pretty much as I remember doing it too (I had NEVER done it before then). That piano rebuilder I mentioned is the one who clued me in on the technique in the first place, then I found an old book in our local library that "taught me" the steps, etc. Had illustrations too, as I recall.

For some reason, this thread stimulated me to see if I still had that homemade refinishing/stripper formula around somewhere. I actually found it! Perhaps someone could find it handy for a refinishing/restoration project of their own. Here's the formula (I could only buy the chemicals in "bulk" at the time, so I ended up with 11 gallons of the stuff.)

5 gallons Methenol/Methyl Alcohol
5 gallons Toluene
1 gallon Methylene Chloride

I applied the "stripper" with 0000 steel wool dipped in the mixture, rubbing in circles and wiping off the old softened finish constantly. All done outdoors with heavy rubber gloves, respirator mask, and rolls of paper towels.

I don't even know if just anybody can buy all the chemicals now. I believe I had a challenging time convincing the chemical company to sell me the Methylene Chloride. Probably much safer chemicals available now, although likely not as effective.

[knight_toolworks]

also you need a little bit of oil to get it to work. this is a great product. no need to mix or use oil.

http://www.amazon.com/Mohawk-Qualasole-Pint/dp/B001FZOO2Y

[Ajcoholic]

Yep, the paste wax prevents water rings and doesn't take away from the beautiful sheen. Excellent way to make a "vulnerable" shellac finish somewhat bullet-proof.

I haven't even thought about the technique in years, but it's almost like you get the "feel" for it once you get started. Joe did a good job describing it...that's pretty much as I remember doing it too (I had NEVER done it before then). That piano rebuilder I mentioned is the one who clued me in on the technique in the first place, then I found an old book in our local library that "taught me" the steps, etc. Had illustrations too, as I recall.

For some reason, this thread stimulated me to see if I still had that homemade refinishing/stripper formula around somewhere. I actually found it! Perhaps someone could find it handy for a refinishing/restoration project of their own. Here's the formula (I could only buy the chemicals in "bulk" at the time, so I ended up with 11 gallons of the stuff.)

5 gallons Methenol/Methyl Alcohol
5 gallons Toluene
1 gallon Methylene Chloride

I applied the "stripper" with 0000 steel wool dipped in the mixture, rubbing in circles and wiping off the old softened finish constantly. All done outdoors with heavy rubber gloves, respirator mask, and rolls of paper towels.

I don't even know if just anybody can buy all the chemicals now. I believe I had a challenging time convincing the chemical company to sell me the Methylene Chloride. Probably much safer chemicals available now, although likely not as effective.

Methylene chloride is the active ingredient in commercial strippers. Thats what actually softens the finish...toluene is a thinner, similar to contact cement solvent (and in most lacquer thinners) methyl alcohol is more of a carrier, and wash, and why some strippers evaporate quickly and feel cold.

The mc is pretty bad stuff... you really need excellent ventilation, and proper safety gear (respirator, neoprene heavy gloves and so forth)

I do a lot of repair/refinish/restoration work as well. Have done a lot of pianos but mainly furniture. Working on a nice old Walnut dining room set right now.

But I do not french-polish except for very small items... :) I spray lacquer!

[kevin]

I use to work in a finishing shop in Montreal doing private jets

French polish was done at a time when there was not the products there is to today

You have to spray 8 to 10 coats sand to between but use a block or sander thats flat .Its complicated to explain here .Be carefull of information you get from the internet.
On the jets we where using polyester I've use water based polyurthene with great results .This needless to say should only be tried with good a understanding of finishes and proper spray equipment
If your doing it for a client and have never done it outscore to a bodyshop you'll save trial and error
The finishes would take longer to do then bulding the interiors

Its a real art to do it properly

[twelchPTM]

My wife says a french polish is clear with a white line across the top....

[tim_mcknight]

French Polish is not a material but a hand applied method of applying a finish product. Fresh mixed flake shellac, often mixed with other exotic resins, is the most widely used materials. FP is a very labor intensive process. I have done it for years on our custom acoustic guitars but I certainly would choose another more durable product for the OP application. Catalyzed urethane or polyester would be on my short list. Both products offer excellent durability, clarity and protection.