Spindle drill chuck

[paul60]

Does anyone know of a drill chuck that can fit a spindle?
or is this a no as far as spindles go.
i have a number of small drill bit sizes i need to run.
just thought it would be a simple matter of inserting a drill chuck into the collet
paul

[bleeth]

Small bit size collets are readily available in metric and fractional. I know of no adapter for a spindle to use a drill chuck. Drill chucks are also not built for the lateral force as well as spindle or router collets, although with very small bits that force would be miimized to avoid breakage of the bit anyway.
MSC is one source.

[carlcnc]

Paul
I would be very careful using a drill chuck,
none I know of are balanced
I did it years ago, once when I fired up I forgot and left rpm at 15000
shank on chuck broke and it grazed my right ear as it flew by, landed 20 ft away, 2" to the left and it would have been ugly, very painful

go for a full set of collets, er style come in 1mm or 1/32 increments

Carl

[Brady Watson]

I've got an Albrecht for specific low speed (under 5000 RPM) drilling. If you have discipline and control, it works well. If you have occasional senior moments, brain farts or random acts of stupidity, do not even consider it.

A 2# chuck on the end of a spindle WILL explode from centrifugal force if you are not 100% vigilant. YOU CAN DIE if you are a moron. Know thyself and think.

-B

[paul60]

I thought that might not be a good idea i will go with a set of collets
or mount a electric drill as i see a few people have done on there shopbot.
thanks for the information.
paul

[Ajcoholic]

There are high speed precision drill chucks, which are rated for 24,000+ rpm. Just have to make sure that what you use is rated for high speed, and accurate.

Industrial drilling machines, which are designed for high precision and high speed exists so I assume, the chucks are also available and can be fitted to a 1/2" shaft, which could be held in a collet?

Just an idea...

AJC

[curtiss]

Not sure what the exact needs may be, but it might be best to simply mark the location of holes to be drilled (with say an 1/8" bit / 1/8" deep) with the bot,

and drill them to the size required with a regular drill.

[paul60]

Hi curtis
I like your suggestion very practical. i am sure that it will work for what i need.
i will try it and see how it goes.

thanks paul

[crash5050]

I am glad I read this post. I was at my favorite chineese tool importer yesterday and I bought a drill chuck. I think now I will just put it up on the shelf and add it to the other tools that I have that I should never be allowed to play with.

[donek]

A #3 drill point countersink has a body diameter of 1/4in and a 7/64th tip. They make great spotting drills in a router and I would imagine a spindle.

[bcondon]

Damn... my senior brain farts exclude me in two ways... Thanks Brady!

The question I have is: I always thought spindle bearing were only for lateral
movement and not for vertical movement under pressure

Thanks
Bob

[donek]

Damn... my senior brain farts exclude me in two ways... Thanks Brady!

The question I have is: I always thought spindle bearing were only for lateral
movement and not for vertical movement under pressure

Thanks
Bob

I believe you are correct. This is one of the reasons I spot drill. I also feed very slowly. In aluminum, my plunge rate is 0.2ips.

[bleeth]

Technically that is correct however I have been drilling shelf, hinge, and drawer slide holes in cabinet parts for years with my Columbo with no problem at all. One simply needs to adopt a proper strategy. For most wood substrate (plywood, mdf, etc with melamine, laminate, or veneer surface) I drill at .50 ips and use peck drilling to evacuate the chips every .20-.25 of depth. Since these holes are typically .4375 deep so there is no problem with either shelf pins or Euro system screws that means the bit retracts once and then does the second pass to the bottom. We are also using a mortise compression bit which is not the best for drilling but it does work fine and gets below the upcut on the first peck so the hole edge is clean.

I have also drilled a lot of aluminum (1/4" plate) but use a different bit (upcut end mill) and much slower speed (.25).

I understand that the bearings used in the HSD are supposed to be better for drilling than the Columbo.

[Brady Watson]

I understand that the bearings used in the HSD are supposed to be better for drilling than the Columbo.

Nope...Bearings are still setup with emphasis on routing, or side to side movement.

I too have drilled plenty of holes with my Colombo...but nothing beats a Milwaukee drill in a mount for drilling.

-B

[bleeth]

emphasis-yes. I totally agree. I have also, as you may remember since it was your brain I picked at the time, run the Columbo slow and used a good quality cobalt drill bit for aluminum. Did it all like butter. If I was doing that one regularly though I wouldn't hesitate to hook up the air drill in the attic or the trusty hole shooter. I wouldn't own a different electric drill. In fact, I never have. Still have my first one although it has gone through a couple chucks.

Cooling off up there any?

[Brady Watson]

Cooling off up there any?

No...Same temp...More humidity.

I think a corded Milwaukee is the definition of drill...You can't kill them! Mine is over 20yrs old...and like new!

-B

[billp]

Dave,
Here's last nights storm passing over the house...

[crash5050]

Yikes! ...--- to meet the minimum

[knight_toolworks]

what size and legth do you need? under 1/8" and less then 1/2" drill length going for the circuit board drill bits are the way to go. they are only 5.00 each solid carbide and I have drilled thousands of holes with one bit. they have 1/8" shafts

[Ajcoholic]

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9996

Every time this topic of "no driling" comes up with the spindles, I am puzzled. I would love to talk to someone from the actual company to get the facts. Not doubting the knowledge of some of you guys, but there seems to be too much conflicting info.

AJC

[Brady Watson]

Every time this topic of "no driling" comes up with the spindles, I am puzzled. I would love to talk to someone from the actual company to get the facts. Not doubting the knowledge of some of you guys, but there seems to be too much conflicting info.

AJC

The bearings in these spindles are NOT like milling machine or drill press spindles. They are primarily for side to side routing and radial loads - NOT thrust loads. Pull one apart and look at the bearings...Too much thrust load will skid the bearings and gall them.

Contact someone @ http://www.hsdusa.com or http://www.pdscolombo.com/ and see what they say about production drilling in xyz material with these low end spindles. These are all low end spindles by the way, Colombo and HSD - they are considered throw away spindles on the $200k+ CNCs.

Drills are for drilling. Routers are for routing. Spending $2k+ on a router doesn't make it into a drill.

Again - your spindle - your rules. Drill if you want...and keep a spare on the shelf. I do.

-B

[bleeth]

Nice shot Bill.
Looks like a long hot summer.
We've been getting storms too so not the drought issues of the midwest.
Hot n humid or hot n wet.

Not much else can be said about drilling with a spindle.
You can do it; we all do; it will wear the bearings; if drilling is a primary function then it is better to set up a secondary tool as a drill.

If our shops or our wallets, or our lifestyle called for a tool with tool changer, oversized bed, second axis for drilling, etc. then we would have one. My first shops used a drilling jig. We make do with what we do for a variety of reasons.

[steve_g]

Does anyone know of a drill chuck that can fit a spindle

I read the first posts of this thread and cringed... today I realized my Dremel Tool after market chuck is rated at 25,000 rpm. Granted it's small but might be big enough for Paul's original question...

SG

[Michaelodunk]

according to there web site all of there chucks are are balanced to 20,000 rpm's. You asked about drilling small holes that is not going to hurt your
spindle. Everyone is putting thrust on there spindle when they plunge into there work.

http://www.uberchuck.com/index.html#.UCG_6U2PWSo

[Brady Watson]

The only Albrecht that will work is the one with the 5/8" shank. All the others are CAT or BT taper and they won't fit - so they are not applicable. I paid around $300 for for the 5/8 SS...It wasn't cheap, but it was worth every penny.

I can tell you from experience, there is NO WAY that chuck will go 20,000 RPM in one of these spindles more than once. So don't be fooled! It weighs a solid 2 POUNDS :eek:

I cannot over-emphasise just how DANGEROUS a drill chuck added to a router or woodworking spindle can be. You must guard against being casual when it comes to using a drill chuck at high RPM. You can get really hurt or kill someone else or yourself if it explodes. One stupid mistake, or an extra zero and it could be your last.

Sorry for the Sergeant Safety rant, but this is nothing to screw around with.

-B

[Ajcoholic]

Well I just talked about drilling with the HSD spindles to the reps at the IWF show. They thought that was nonsense, and that the spindles are used all the time to drill as well as machine where high axial loads exist.

Not trying to play devils advocate but I find it hard to believe they would lie?

[harryball]

I checked them out before as well. I was told several years ago that HSD spindles are designed for and used in mortisers and are designed to take the pressure drilling presents. I used my 4HP HSD 6 years, drilling, cutting etc... never had a problem. I recently sold it and replaced it with a new 4HP HSD as a proactive measure.

/RB

EDIT: Here is the archived thread http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9639

[donclifton]

Bearings used in spindle are not radial but angular which account for their high cost. This has been a misconception use on the forum for a long time.
Donald Clifton

[donclifton]

The columbo spindle has ceramic bearing but the HSD spindle does not along with most spindles, yet another misconception.
Donald Clifton

[Brady Watson]

Well I'm glad you were able to clear that up.

Don - Neither have ceramic bearings - unless you order them that way or install them yourself, like I did.

-B

[donclifton]

I have never had a columbo spindle apart but have seen you say that they did on several occasions and was taking your word for it as always.
Donald Clifton

[Brady Watson]

I have never had a columbo spindle apart but have seen you say that they did on several occasions and was taking your word for it as always.
Donald Clifton

I took SB's word for it too when I was told not to drill with it & that it had ceramic bearings...so that makes 2 of us. When I got the bearings out, they turned out to just be steel. The ones I ordered when I did the rebuild were what they call ceramic hybrids - not full ceramic. IIRC the balls are steel and the races were ceramic coated. I have no clue on the HSD spindles. I don't own one anymore and don't like the fact that they are pegged to 300Hz max.

I am still not keen on doing production drilling with these spindles - regardless of what anyone says. Common sense would dictate that shock loads from drilling could maul or shock the bearings. I certainly would not drill ANY metal with these spindles. I'll say what I've said all along - It's your spindle, do what you want with it. As for mine...I'll drill dense materials with the milling head. If these are 'throw away' spindles anyway, I guess it really doesn't matter at the end of the day, does it? I'm not quite keen on the throw away idea myself...and prefer to get another 1/2 million parts out of my 5hp Colombo before I have to put the spare into use.

-B

[donclifton]

One thing is for sure, you can buy a lot of drill motors for what a spindle cost.
Donald Clifton