Digitizer Output File

[Flite-Metal]

http://www.shopbottools.com/images/Products/sb_probe03.jpg

I have a question about the output from the digitizer attachment. What format is the output file?

Ed

[Flite-Metal]

http://www.shopbottools.com/images/Products/sb_probe03.jpg

Well I just caught Frank at Bot who said there are choices...the .dxf was as
far as I let him get... :) As for other formats someone who cares to add more
information...please do.

I asked how high the resolution could go and he said it had no finite setting as
the X and Y step offset were totally variable...defaulting at 10/1000ths.

[Brady Watson]

You'll want to choose the scan as SBP option when you do a 3D probe routine. Then when complete, run it through the Probe2Surface translator as a 3D DXF. File sizes can be quite large when converted to 3D DXF, so my advice would be to copy the SBP over to your most powerful computer. Fire up SB3 and then use the translator to make the DXF.

In terms of stepover & resolution, you will probably max out at .01", with .025" being a good 'sweet spot' with .0625" stylus before you start approaching the law of diminishing return. I doubt you will see much difference in data quality or density @ .01 vs .025" SO.

NEVER use the Zzero plate with the probe. Set the upper & lower limits to scan and make sure your stylus is long enough to do what you ask it to do without bottoming out. You also do NOT want to probe the table surface...Put a piece of masking tape on the spindle to prevent it from turning while probing or it can wind up the cord...and MAKE SURE the spindle never gets turned on when you start the routine (SO,1,0).

You'll need Aspire at the very least to edit the probe data.

-B

[Flite-Metal]

Hi Brady,

My project is a team effort relative to translating it into portions as a result of milling. We have
a team member who's skill set in 3D SolidWorks is good after years as a design engineer in 2D.

We desire to offset the 2D to 3D evolution of our projects by providing that team member with
as much detail in work-up in 3D to reduce his downtime to render the finished 3D files that will
end up being milled on the ShopBot Desktop.

I appreciate the straight forward reply. I have worked hard to develop a set of process virtual
tools to reduce our projects timeline. The original project timelines were upwards of 36 months.
With implementation I will now see the typical project in the 6 to 7 month range.

Needless to say, the ShopBot and digitaizer are rendered "free" to go along with my additional
....free time :)

[Brady Watson]

Ed,
I'm not sure I understand your last post to the degree that you implied.

In regards to converting the 3D output to SolidWorks, don't expect it to be as straightforward as you may think. Translating a 3D DXF mesh to Solid data is a pain, and how painful is proportional to how complex the model is to begin with. You may consider outputting the data as a point cloud and then using SW's ScanTo3D data import tool to see if it can give you a more straightfroward result than going from DXF to solid. There is no magic button...which means that you will most likely have to manually trace over mesh data to create splines, and then create a 'solid' from that. This is one reason I do not provide solid type files to customers - it takes too much time, most models (like decorative reliefs) are not conducive to being solids (too much going on) and it takes so much time to do and verify that it blows the budget.

So, just a word to the wise...don't get too slap happy about the probe. It is excellent for what it is...but it takes time to scan (in some cases days) and the data is good, but not great. It is worth 3X the asking price for what it can do - but there is a substantial bit of work on the back end to get where you want to go. The desktop's finer step resolution will allow the probe to produce better results than the larger rack & pinion tools. You will want to edit the scan data before you start converting to solids, because with ANY method of digitizing there are always spurious points of data and anomolies, or unintended captures that need to be parsed out. So keep that in mind. I collected well over 25 million points on my original SB probe from before I retired it.

If you find that the probe is not giving you the data quality and resolution you need, feel free to contact me off list about laser scanning your parts. The data will be much cleaner, but you will still have to work your magic on converting it to a solid.

-B

[Flite-Metal]

Brady,

I understand and appreciate your feedback because you are one of, if not "the" power user of PartWorks.

A conversation a few minutes ago led me to return to ask you to check something since you have every
element involved in what I desire to achieve.

I was told "Probe To Surface" will convert the probed file to a solid which can then be edited in PartWorks.
Instead of editing the file in PartWorks as a solid it is then exported as a 3D solid .dxf so it can be edited
in 3D SolidWorks.

I am not being overly creative...I simply share a statement made by ShopBot technical support. Knowing
how these things go, and your knowledge base, I lay my sword at your feet sir....:) What be your
interpretation of what is written on the side of the Holy Grail? ;)

[Brady Watson]

Ed,
Let me push you a little bit in the right direction by just defining a few terms for you, and clearing up a few things.


http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy8/braidmeister/SB_GrantsGreatIdea_P2ST.jpg

The probe to surface translator will take an SBP file (hopefully you chose to scan as an SBP when you used the 3D Copy Machine utility with the probe) - and allow you to save it as a 3D surface or mesh. This 3D mesh, can be saved out and imported into PartWorks 3D. You can also save as a few other formats (BMP, DXF Points or XYZ points) for processing in other software. It is important within the context of our work that you call the 3D DXF Surface a mesh, as opposed to a solid. A mesh is essentially a collection of points in space (point cloud) that have been triangulated to create a mesh, much like a thin skin over the points that you collected in your scan.

A solid is a specific term in the CAD world that defines a type of file format & way of modelling 3D parts. It is VERY different than a mesh or surface file, and it is typically water-tight, unlike many surface meshes. I'll let you Google it if you want to learn more.

When it comes time to machine your 3D part, the only file type that can be used is a 3D mesh - which comes in different flavors, such as DXF, STL, OBJ, 3DS and others. These formats are the only ones that the CAM software (including PartWorks3D) can work with...So - bearing that in mind, if you were to create a file from scratch in SolidWorks, the file format would have to revert back to a mesh anyway...Which isn't a problem, but it is something to keep in mind.

You can import data right from the SB Probe (as long as you probed as an SBP!) into PartWorks3D. You will see the data that came from the probe right on the screen, and if this is what you want (I doubt it) - you can skip running the probe to surface translator and just pull it in as an SBP - However...As I said earlier, there are certain realities to digitizing, and one of those is that you ALWAYS want to edit out the extra junk that comes in from probing & maybe do a little smoothing or sculpting to clean it up. You cannot do this in PW3D because it is CAM only - It will not let you edit the file or part's geometry at all. This is why I suggested Aspire to be able to do this.

You cannot export anything from PW3D, aside from Vectric specific files, meant for use with PW2D etc. You can however, export an STL mesh from Aspire to pipe it over to SolidWorks, with as much ease as if it were 3D DXF. (STL is actually a smaller and more universal format than 3D DXF).

So...I completely understand where you want to go and what you want to do, but there are a few caveats that need to be addressed before the path is clear. Going from digitized data that is represented as a mesh to a solid format, is a challenge.

Let me give you another example. Let's say you had a part that you made from scratch, but you want to digitize it so that you can machine a whole bunch of these parts. Here's the basic recipe, bearing in mind that there are no dog & ponies at this show:

1) Secure your part to be scanned to the CNC, insert probe into router, and run the 3D Copy Machine utility, choosing SBP as the output file.

2) After probing is complete, run the probe to surface translator utility and save it out as a 3D DXF surface/mesh.

3) Open up Aspire & import the 3D DXF. Using the sculpting tools, smooth out the model and clean up or delete any dirty data.

4a) Create toolpaths to machine, and run it on the CNC.

-----

4b) Export cleaned 3D data as STL mesh and import it into SolidWorks to begin converting it to a solid model.

Does that make sense?


-B

PS - Stop laying swords at my feet...I might trip & lose a foot! :D
Seriously...I put my pants on the same as everyone else. I've been doing this stuff for a while.

[steve_g]

Brady

Thanks for the detailed explanation to Ed's question... He wasn't the only one learning!

SG

[Flite-Metal]

Brady,

Thanks for taking the time to define the Vectric Aspire constrained pathway. It is obvious when I was told PartWorks
had a DXF export pathway that was incorrect...

In an earlier post a week or so ago I had someone accuse me of repeating myself since I was CYA'n by making a pass
through the forum asking a few important process questions...again...

That is OK because it led me to another software utility with an attribute of virtually limitless half cross section sweeps
along an pair of "indexed" rails. The functionality I seek is nearly complete.

You have been most helpful in clearing up issues for me. The hands on you have experienced is essential to effectively
using this technology, regardless of brand. I applaude you in your patience and kind mentoring!

I and my partners in this scale modeling crime applaude this forum and its leading us to our ShopBot Desktop purchase
decision.

[Brady Watson]

It is obvious when I was told PartWorks had a DXF export pathway that was incorrect...

Not necessarily. PartWorks 2D will export EPS, AI and 2D DXF vectors.

Many programs can do a 2-rail sweep to generate 3D. Even SB3 can do this with the extruder utility.

If you want a less painful and easy to learn solution, invest in Aspire. The band-aid route of cheaper programs costs a lot more in the long run...and gets frustrating.

I'm not much for sugar coating & like to tell it how it is...without the bandwagon, dogs or ponies.

-B

[shilala]

Thanks, yet again, Brady. This was a BIG help.

[jdervin]

2) After probing is complete, run the probe to surface translator utility...

Where can I find this utility?

[Brady Watson]

In SB3 under Tools->Probe2Surface Translator, unless you have v3.6.44, then you're out of luck.

Email SB and ask them to put it back in again...not sure why it is missing.

-B

[billp]

John,
PM sent....

[Brady Watson]

UPDATE: It was a small oversight that the probe to surface translator was excluded from the control software. It should be back in there in the next release. I believe it is present in the current beta release.

-B

[ssflyer]

I haven't used it in awhile, and didn't notice its absence! I have the latest Beta, and it still isn't there. However, it is still in C:\Program Files\ShopBot\Virtual Tools\Probe to Surface folder, on my XP computer - no doubt leftover from a previous version.

[Brady Watson]

Sorry...meant to say next beta release...

If you're dying and need it, you can download v3.4.27 (in a different install directory!) and run it that way.

-B

[Initial Sound, LLC]

You'll want to choose the scan as SBP option when you do a 3D probe routine. Then when complete, run it through the Probe2Surface translator as a 3D DXF. File sizes can be quite large when converted to 3D DXF, so my advice would be to copy the SBP over to your most powerful computer. Fire up SB3 and then use the translator to make the DXF.

In terms of stepover & resolution, you will probably max out at .01", with .025" being a good 'sweet spot' with .0625" stylus before you start approaching the law of diminishing return. I doubt you will see much difference in data quality or density @ .01 vs .025" SO.

NEVER use the Zzero plate with the probe. Set the upper & lower limits to scan and make sure your stylus is long enough to do what you ask it to do without bottoming out. You also do NOT want to probe the table surface...Put a piece of masking tape on the spindle to prevent it from turning while probing or it can wind up the cord...and MAKE SURE the spindle never gets turned on when you start the routine (SO,1,0).

You'll need Aspire at the very least to edit the probe data.

-B

Hello B-

Have you ever imported 3D DXF probe files into Solidworks?
I can get the lofted surfaces but still learning how to manipulate and extract the surface as a .stl or other model.
I've imported the 3D DXF probe file into Aspire too but not sure where to go from here.
What I'm Doing: Wooden chair seat profile.
Minimum Quantity 100

I have the master original to scan and replicate. I need one "pre production" unit asap.
I bought the probe and started integrating it yesterday.
I'm running v4 4 x 8 SB PRT 7.2 Gear Ratio

I'll keep searching. I'm finding folks sketching chair bottoms in aspire and using two rail sweeps mirroring etc. That's also an option but I need to copy the master original not create one.

FYI I ran both the 2d profile .sbt and 3d .sbt .25 SO.
I DID create a 3d DXF with surface translator.

I have those file available. The 3d Scan is 101kb over the 97kb limit I guess. I can send a dropbox link.

Any help would be appreciated. I'm told you specialize in scanning etc.

Thanks in advance. I did try to reach Grant and Frank today too. No reply yet.

[Flite-Metal]

I must have missed something. Aspire is not a solid 3D program it is a skin dim manipulator functioning
in differital data as it has no solid geometry cloud points for any object.

SolidWorks is going to have a problem with the lack of splines in .dxf's

I thought a resulting digitized file could be immediately processed with Cut3D.
If so, what's the reason for all this Solid Works issue? Drive Bot with Cut3D to mill the 100 required.

[Brady Watson]

Mike,
You would need to translate that 3D DXF into an STL using a program such as AccuTrans, Rhino or other program in order to bring it into SW.

Keep in mind that SW is a poor program for working with digitized data and there is always an issue trying to go from mesh to solid.

-B