Door program for all users

[richards]

All right, I give up. For those of you who wondered what color my hair really is (gray, not blond), I'll admit that I really am a left-handed dyslexic programmer - which is the reason that my C-code is fairly obtuse.

I've just completed alpha-testing a version of my door program that only requires the use of a spreadsheet to input the required parameters. NO 'C' PROGRAMMING REQUIRED. You will need to use three spreadsheets that require strict compliance to pre-ordained layouts, but they make the inputting of cutters, doors, and system variables as easy as entering any number in a spreadsheet.

I'm still writing documentation and a README file, but everything should be ready by early evening April 1, 2005 (no - this is not an April Fools Joke. The software exists and really works).

Here are the requirements:

(1). You need to use either a Linux computer or a Windows computer.

(2). You need to have access to a spreadsheet program that has the 'SAVE AS ... CSV' file type. (OpenOffice, an open source program has just such a spreadsheet that is available at no cost via the internet.)

(3). You need to be able to create a few folders/directories in Windows or Linux.

(4). You need to be able to copy SBP files from a working directory to your preferred folder/directory.

(5). You need to have sufficient computer skills to use a spreadsheet - ask almost any high school student for help, if necessary.

If the requirements are not intimidating, you'll have SBP files that create three styles of cabinet doors - normal, arched and roman arched. You'll have SBP files that ramp into most cuts. You'll have the ability to use any V-cutter regardless of angle. You'll have the ability to run a tabbing-pass that is intelligent enough to know how to leave a consistant web (your choice of tab length) to hold everything together. If you're fairly good with a spreadsheet, you'll also have rudimentry nesting. (At least you'll be able to specify the spacing between the doors and you'll be able to see when a run of doors exceeds your material length/height.)

If this program for everyone? ABSOLUTLY NOT. There are some very good programs available commercially, including DoorBot by Wes Mason, that do a very commendable job for a relatively low price that do not make you fiddle with your computer. This program is for those of you who don't mind rolling up your sleeves a little to get SBP files. My goal is to provide something that might be useful to you in the hope that you'll provide something useful to others. That's it - the Open Source Philosophy at work in the Shopbot community.

If you're interested, send me an email. You'll have the program, along with the source code, within a day or two. (OSI licensing controls the use and distribution of the source code, meaning that you MUST distribute the source code if you distribute the executable code.)

-Mike
miker@xmission.com (mailto:miker@xmission.com)

[richards]

Thanks for the great response to the offer for the software. Frankly, I was awestruck to know that there are so many of you who are willing to give it a try.

If you sent a request for the files and you haven't received them yet, please send another request. I bounce around from computer to computer in various places throughout the day, and I've been known to be somewhat absent minded from time to time.

If anyone else would like a copy, feel free to send me an email. There are no strings attached (other than the necessity of honoring the osi license - meaning that you have to distribute the source code with the doors.exe file, if you give the code to others).

-Mike
miker@xmission.com (mailto:miker@xmission.com)

[mikejohn]

Mike
Excel saves as csv
.........Mike

[gerald_d]

...but Excel is not open source.

[mikejohn]

Does the spread sheet have to be open source?
..........Mike

[ron brown]

No - But Open Office is a nice free spreadsheet program. I like it as well as Excell or Lotus.

Ron

[richards]

As Ron said, OpenOffice is a nice program. And, as he also said, you can download it from the Internet without cost. Since it comes with Fedora Core-3 Linux, I've chosen to also download it for use on all of my Windows computers so that I have a common program that crosses OS boundaries.

As Mike J. and Gerald have said, the CSV format is common among all spreadsheets (as far as I know). It makes it possible to easily exchange data between dissimilar programs.

As to the definition of "open source", it means that the "source code" or text files that contain the program's instructions are furnished with the executable program - so that the end user can modify any part of the program if he desires. Open Source is misunderstood by some to indicate that the program is "free", as in, without cost; however, the "free", in this case, is more like the word "freedom", meaning that the user is free to modify the code to better suit his own needs.

Most Open Source software is released free of charge, but it is not required by the OSI license.

With that said, let me thank all of you who have asked for copies of my little program. Many eyes have looked at the source code and found several bugs that I totally missed. Others have asked questions that have reminded me that my instructions need revising. One user has written an excellent front end program that makes entering data much easier. (I'm hoping that he will post something on this forum to let you all know about his program.)

One final point. Some have thought that I released this program to compete against Wes Mason's DoorBot program. That is NOT the case. I have nothing but admiration for Wes Mason and for his DoorBot program. I would encourage anyone who regularly cuts doors to contact Wes Mason and to purchase his program. He, and others like him, provide a much needed service and deserve to be paid for their efforts. On the other hand, some of us, who are of the open source persuasion, choose to release software, usually software that is unpolished and of less than commercial quality, without charge. I hope that there is room for both.

[bruce_clark]

As Mr. Richards said, there is a graphical user interface (GUI) for the Doors.exe program. Here is what it looks like:

7

This program is strictly a GUI for Michael Richard's Doors.exe program. You need to have his program installed and working before you can use Free Doors. Really, all this program does is let you enter create a CSV file that Doors.exe can use. That and it is a little more new user friendly than the current version.

It would be an ideal Virtual Tool for the ShopBot controller. I will see what is involved with that.

The program is free, but there are some limitations, so please read the "About Free Doors" about box.

If anyone is interested, please email me (my email address is in my profile) and I will send them off a copy. REMEMBER: You need Michael Richard's Door.exe program, so make sure you get that from him, if you have not already.

Bruce

[paco]

Hey Mike!

I'll sure allow as much room to a sharing person like you (and many others) as you'd like!!

Thanks again for sharing your work!

This is a GREAT opportunity for a "SB programming community" to develop and have fun on some COOL programming projects... have you notice how most thoses "open source" programs are VERY well built/written and answer VERY effectively one needs?!...

[phil_o]

I'm a little confused by some of the responses. 1. Will the Door Program work with Excel?
2. If I use Bruce's "Free Doors" program in conjunction with Mike's "Door Program", do I need anything else?

[bruce_clark]

Mr. O'Rourke,

No, you will not need anything else other than Mr. Richards' Doors.EXE and my FreeDoors.EXE. All the FreeDoors application is is a "front end". It allows you to enter data into a spread sheet like program, but it makes it a little easier for the first time cabinet door "maker".

The first round of emails is about to go out, I am just finishing up the Help/readme file.

Bruce

PS Yes, Mr. Richards' program will work with Excel or ANY program that will generate a CSV file.

[bruce_clark]

Sorry to keep posting, but I just found out how to add FreeDoors.exe to your Virtual Tools from the Shopbot menu or by typing TE Shopbot command line.

OK, locate the file called "VirtualTools.ini" and add this line to the very end of the file:

VT = Fr&eeDoors, Virtual Tools\FreeDoors.exe, 0, 0

Save the file and then copy or move the FreeDoors.EXE program to the Virtual Tools folder. Mine is located here:
C:\Program Files\ShopBot\Virtual Tools\FreeDoors.EXE

Now, load (or quit and reload) the ShopBot controller and now FreeDoors is under the Tools menu and is accessible via the TE command.

Bruce Clark

[jerryk]

Ron Brown,
I have been trying to reach you but apparently not connecting. Please email me and my apologies to the forum for taking this space.

[richards]

A lot of you have asked what I think the potential market is for MDF doors. My best answer is somewhere between NIL and VOID (at least if I want to show my face at church next Sunday).

The doors program with Bruce Clark's front end makes it easy to cut doors BUT how many people specify unfinished MDF doors when they order a new kitchen?

MDF is easy to cut but it takes a lot of work to turn a raw door into something of value. I hate painting and I must have mislaid my thermofoil machine, because I can't find it anywhere. So, my options, when cutting doors is whether to charge almost nothing for them so that there is enough profit in the door to pay a painter or to try and trick the customer into believing that MDF is easy to paint. Both propositions are losers, in my opinion.

I see the MDF door market as a little niche market that comes around two or three times a year (at least here in Utah where solid lumber raised panels pre-finished doors are sold at prices less than I can buy the lumber for).

However, making MDF doors is fun. People who watch them being cut are amazed at the operation of a CNC router. Garages and dog houses look fancy with raised panel doors, but, kitchens and bathrooms may require something a little more fancy.

I don't want to throw water on anyone's dreams. "Some" people are successful cutting MDF doors, but I don't count on it to generate enough profits to be concerned about. If you're like me, you might have a market for a few hundred doors - to your family and neighbors, but to hope to sell the thousands that a Shopbot can cut in a week might just be a little optimistic.

HOWEVER, if you want to have a little fun impressing your friends and neighbors send me an email and you'll get the code free of charge. Better yet, send both Bruce Clark and me an email. I guarantee that it will almost be worth the price charged.

-Mike
miker@xmission.com (mailto:miker@xmission.com)

[matt_r]

I agree with Mike. But then we are both living here in Utah, and have both found the same response. When I was a cabinet maker 10 years ago - we used to do quite a few jobs that were white laquer MDF doors. They were a pain in the "A" to laquer and have look good. I talked to my old boss a month or two ago and he said that the MDF door market had pretty much gone away - and those that were using them were doing thermofoil. Again, all this agrees with what Mike said above.

However

I am doing a job right now for a family member - who likes the look of painted cabinet doors. No, I am not making any money on this job - BUT - it does give me a 'show piece' to have for my portfolio. The second thing it has afforded me is to get in contact with an interior designer who specializes in 'shoe string' redecorating - ala shows like Trading Spaces. The idea is that somebody can replace their old plywood, flat panel doors from the 50s and 60s, with a sharp looking raised panel door - as long as they like the painted look. There is still the issue of painting - and I would leave that up to the homeowner or interior designer to get done - as I love painting about as much as Mike does. Granted - I acknowledge that this option might not be for every home owner, and I still need to price thermofoil doors against what I would price these at.

Anyway, just some more food for MDF thought.

Matt
Digital Router Works

[bruce_clark]

Just an update on the FreeDoor program.

Mike Richards has pointed out a few issues that I need to resolve with my current FreeDoor program. I also want to make 3 or 4 more improvements to make the program more usefull and easier on the user.

So, there will be a delay of a day or two between any request that I get now and when you will get an email from me. Sorry for the delay, but I promiss, it will be worth the wait. Also, anybody who has already requested a copy, will automatically get an update when it is finished.

Bruce

[bruce_clark]

First off, thanks for all the request and all the suggestions.

Many improvements have been made, including "one click" ShopBot file previewing and editing of CUTTERS.CSV and VARS.CSV files inside the program--so now, no other program other than Mike Richards' Doors.EXE is required.

The data grid is more "beginner friendly" and a "Recalculate ALL Offsets" has been added, which is more user friendly and intuitive than the first version's calculate as you enter.

Other minor bug fixes have been addressed, but I am sure there are more to find.

Here is the latest screen shot:

8
The program is free, but there are some limitations, so please read the "About Free Doors" about box.

Again, if anyone is interested, please email me (my email address is in my profile) and I will send them off a copy. AND REMEMBER: You need Mike Richards' Door.exe program, so make sure you get that from him, if you have not already.

Bruce

[stickman]

Bruce and Mike,

I got a chance to load the door program on Windows XP. I must say that I am quite amazed. I would love to spend some time learning parametric programming.

It would be helpful writing programs for hinge cup boring and drawer pulls, 32mm cabinet systems.

I like the visual layout, the user interface is pretty neat. I can't wait to see what new you guys look to add to this.

Nice job guys...

[bruce_clark]

Thanks Jay,

For the rest of you, there is a new version of FreeDoors available that has quite a few new features and improvements. Here is the latest screen shot:

9

Other than the fact it is a screen hog, the most visible feature is the "Layout sheet". This give you a rough idea of how your doors are going to layout on the sheet. There are some other new features as well.

As usual, the program is free, but there are some limitations, so please read the "About Free Doors" about box.

Again, if anyone is interested, please email me (my email address is in my profile) and I will send them off a copy. AND REMEMBER: You need Mike Richards' Door.exe program, so make sure you get that from him, if you have not already.

Bruce

[jerry]

Hi All,

Just put together some CorelDraw scripts to help draw Upper Cabinets and Doors. All you need is Corel Draw 9 and above (may work with older versions) to run the scripts. The scripts just do the drawing no CAM stuff.

Thanks
---jerry


Zip FIle

10 (7.2 k)

[bruce_clark]

The Free Doors/Doors program has been updated. I have included the latest version of Mike's Doors program and source code into the installer.

You can get the latest version here:

http://home.centurytel.net/bwclark/

There is also a tutorial on how to use Free Doors on the site as well.

Thanks,

Bruce Clark

[jerry]

Hi Again,

I have added some more updates to the Corel Scripts. Now the Doors script allows up to 12 panels to be created. Also you can now save/load the dimensions from/into the drawing itself for both the door creater and the upper cabinet creator. The data is stored on a different layer. The scripts also support mm,cm dimesions besides inches. Also they should work with Corel Version 8 to 12.

Thanks
---jerry


11 (10.9 k)

[richards]

The doors program, version 7.12 still has a bug that misses 'sharpening' the upper left-hand v-cut corner when cutting a door with the arch on the right side of the door. You can 'work around' the problem by laying out any horizontal doors with the arch to the left side of the door. Doors with arches on both the right and left seem to work.

By the way, Jerry Dietrich spent significant time working on the doors program with code that was vastly superior to mine. Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of Corel, so I can't look at his latest work.

[richards]

Doors version 7.13 is ready for beta testing. Before making a general release, I would appreciate it if one or two of you would 'beta' test this version by running a batch of doors and then letting me know if the bugs have really been fixed.

miker@xmission.com (mailto:miker@xmission.com)

[jhicks]

As Mike knows, I have spent numerous hours and days running samples, taking dimensions, modifing files, and cutting again. I think 7.13d is ready for prime time but believe there are other variations available in arches and cuts which may uncover minor tolerance or dimensional issues. For the most part I think Mike has done a great job of responding to my findings and has resolved them one at a time. I must have run 50 different small samples measuring each cut. I finally ran 8 production doors this week end 22X56" with 4" stiles and 1" arches successfully BUT had created minor offsets in cuts, angles, and bit dimensions to accomplish what I wanted to see and minimize any finishing. I can say the experience was valuable in finding/fixing my machine settings etc because these Groove and V settings are relative moves and if any axis is out, you will see the result in the parts. Offsets seem to be a good resolution but only if one runs and takes base line dimensions to offset from before a production part.
Thanks Mike. I'm anxious to hear what others find.

[bruce_clark]

A new version of Free Doors and an updated Doors.EXE is now available from my website:

http://home.centurytel.net/bwclark/


There is also a tutorial on how to USE Free Doors. You can view it online at:

http://home.centurytel.net/bwclark/getting_started.htm


---------------------------------------------------------------
What's New? [11-18-2005 Version 3.51]

There is a new "option" or feature that is for passing additional arguments to the Doors.EXE program. This allows the user to

take advantage of new features or options that Mike Richards has added that I have not yet implemented. For more information

about options and arguments, please read Mike's "READMEV713.TXT" located in the DOORS directory.

This feature is disabled by default, but can easily be "turned on" by editing the "FREEDOORS.INI" file found in the DOORS\BIN

folder and changing the line:

PROMPTFOROPTION=0

to

PROMPTFOROPTION=1


This build/installer also includes an update from Mike Richards of his Doors.exe program from version 7.12 to 7.13.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Bruce

[bruce_clark]

Dear ShopBotters,

I am in the process of a MAJOR update to FreeDoors and would like to get some feedback from people who do Wainscot or would like to make Wainscots.

I am thinking about doing a FreeDoors "plug-in" that will let you create Wainscots from the Doors.CSV file. I would like to get some feedback on my idea for the interface and implementation to see if it a)will work b)be easy enough for a casual user.

Also planned is a "Graphical" way to adjust the type and depth of cutters used to create the recessed area between the "panel" and the styles/rails.

Also, a big improvements with the support of additional output formats (G-Code and DXF--to do additional editing in a CAD/CAM package).

Lastly, I am working on a step by step "how-to" that will walk you thought the actually cutting of your own cabinet doors (not just how to create them). And how you make a full set of kitchen cabinets (including tooling) from Lowes for under $80.

So, if you use FreeDoors or would like to, I would like to hear from you about user interfacing, Wainscot or other ideas for FreeDoors--this includes you Danny!

Thanks,

Bruce Clark
PS My email address is bwclark1 (at) gmail (dot) com

[jhicks]

Bruce, I think the wainscot idea and G code output would be very nice additions. I haven't run free doors for quite a while mostly due to the low margin on mdf doors BUT filling in a wainscot panel like the nice work posted earlier by someone (maybe jack jarvis? Sorry if I got that wrong) would be a viable product with ease of installation a key value and benefit to the customer.
Customizing with reliefs, V carve or other art inside the panels would be very nice as well.
I use Mach so if it was availabe with a suitable post processor, I would be happy to give it a spin and let you know the results etc.
Graphical profile interface also sounds pretty user friendly and interesting. It would be nice to see other bits and profiles to help differentiate the final design details.
You are a one creative guy!
Thanks

[myxpykalix]

Yes that was me with the wainscoting. I think this would be a great application (because it looks just like a cabinet door) but in my way of thinking you would need to be able to set lines in such a way that you can design your wianscoting so it mimicks the look of a rail and stile "put together" frame.
If you look at my wainscoting:
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/messages/17997/18005.html?1171336954
What i did was just make some "accent" lines to make it look like rails and stiles. I would defintely be interested in this.

[bruce_clark]

Jack and Jerry,

First off, Jack that is very nice and is WAY nicer than what FreeDoors will allow you to create. BUT that is why I am adding in the DXF output option. You will be able to take the geometry into another program (I am planning on targeting VCarvePro but it should work with anything that can accept DXF files) to add additional engraving/carving/molding patterns.

My "idea" of how to do the Wainscot is to create a 7th tooling file that will create a new cutout file for the cabinet doors. You would still create the Wainscot like you were making multiple cabinet doors. You would generate the cabinet door files and then run the Wainscot plug-in that would let you pick the doors (graphically) you wanted to include in the Wainscot and the plug-in would generate the 7th cutting file.

Now, to product the Wainscot, you would run files 1,2,3 and then 7--skipping files 4,5 and 6. This would combine the cabinet doors into a single panel. Again, this explanation assumes a working knowledge of FreeDoors. Let me know if this is a viable way to create a basic Wainscot.

This would also, in effect, allow you to create multi "panel" cabinet doors (or even larger doors, such as closet doors or larger furniture doors.

That is the idea.

Jerry, I am about 95% done with the G-Code and DXF output option and I would definately appriciate some feedback on the G-Code optional output. I _WOULD_ really appriciate a true run on a machine, not just a Mach preview screen--I have been verifing output with NCPlot, so I know it is OK, but some things that I want to include are Header and Footer files and these never "preview" well, which is why I would appriciate an honest running of the machine. I would be glad to forward you an early Alpha version of FreeDoors 4. This will be a pre-Wainscot and pre-Graphic Tooling change, but those are coming soon (and quickly).

Anyways, let me know if this above make sense or is total gibberish.

Bruce

[hines]

Bruce, glad to see FreeDoors progressing in this direction. I'm guessing you received multiple emails like mine asking about a possible wainscoting add on. I appreciate your work on this program, and if there's anything you ever need help with, let me know.

Dave

[jhicks]

Bruce, when free doors was in later stages of development, I worked pretty closely with Mike and together we were effective in evaluating critical issues and results on the table which Mike seemed to appreciate and isolated areas previously not uncovered.
So I think I can help and would be happy to run some time, code, and result oriented tests or models to see what we can discover. If you have specific concerns or questions let me know and I'll look at them specifically whe you're ready for some test runs.

[dmidkiff]

Bruce,
The wainscot panel that Mike Richards posted in the Show & Tell was designed with Free Doors. I basicly gave deminsions for 4 doors the same size and skipped the edge and cut out files. I used Whiteside Ogee Panel bit 1 1/2 " dia. I had to figure out the offset needed for that large of bit.
A tool library would be nice so the software does the math for you. Like the idea of DXF files into V-CarvePro.

Thanks for your efforts
Dave

[bruce_clark]

Everybody,

Thanks for the support and suggestions so far. I just finished the G-code and DXF support and want to start "Alpha" testing that very soon.

I know the ShopBot code works and I have personally verified the DXF output, but would like to get some people who's controller uses G-Code to verify that the G-Code is also correct.

One thing I am debating about. I want to spend the time working on the Graphical Tooling part, but I also think that getting the actual "cutting" tutorial written would be important since I am hoping to get some non ShopBotters to test the G-Code output as well. So, we will see how that plays out.

Jerry, you said you have a G-code controlled machine, shoot me an email at bwclark1 at gmail dot com and I will let you be guinea pig #1 for FreeDoor 4.0U.

Bruce

[bruce_clark]

Dear FreeDoors users:

Well, I decided that programming won out over the cutting tutorial.

I am looking for volunteers to try out this FreeDoors "plug-in". It is not 100% complete, but would like to get some feedback before I spend too much time going down the wrong road.

If you use or have used FreeDoors in the past and would like to help evaluate ALPHA/BETA software, pleaes drop me an email at the address:
bwclark1 at gmail dot com

Here is what a screen shot of the current version looks like.

12
Thanks,

Bruce

[dray]

I wanna try it!!!

[jdw]

Bruce...I'm green to Free Doors..I'd welcome the opportunity to check it out from a "new blood" perspective.
Thanks,
Jon

[bruce_clark]

Jon and Danny,

FreeDoors 4.0U (Free Doors 4 U
) with the Cutters Editor is just about done. "Done" meaning it is ready for an exhaustive BETA testing. All I need to do is add the actual "Help text" to the Cutters Editor program and build an installer. I am hoping Monday or Tuesday will be the day I can put it on the FreeDoors website to all to try.

Look for an annoucement here pretty soon.

I also plan to update the website with more tutorials. One on how to actually MAKE cabinet doors with the FreeDoors program and another on how to use the Cutters Editor program.

So, I got a lot of work ahead of me...

Bruce