Duplicated vectors and open vectors

[Chuck Keysor]

Hello, I have two smaller quirks with Aspire that hopefully someone can comment on.

1) When I create a file in Adobe Illustrator CS2 and then import it as vector art into Aspire, many of the letters wind up with duplicated vectors stacked up on top of each other. The duplicated vectors that make up the letters are slightly offset from the bottom vectors, so they can be seen if I zoom in. Then I have to go and manually delete all the extra letter vectors so that I only have one set of letters. This only happens with letters, and not with anything else.

2) Also when importing vector images from Illustrator CS2, I use the Aspire check for open vectors command, and it says there are no open vectors. But then when I go to create a cut file (V-carve), it gives a message saying that two open vectors were found and will be ignored. I go back and re-test the vector image, and it says there are no open vectors. I go back to make the cut file again, and it says there are two open vectors, but they will be ignored. When I created the cut file, and then ran it, everything was fine. So do I have open vectors that the check for open vector tool can't find, or is the software confused when it tells me it will ignore the two open vectors in order to create the cut file?

Thanks, Chuck

[knight_toolworks]

the error can drive you nuts. it is usually caused by some wacky nodes crossing or really narrow points. but they only show up when you do the toolpathing. or there could be chunks of scrap in there you get when you select all.

[mtylerfl]

Hi Chuck,

You might try exporting your Illustrator vectors as EPS to see if that helps your situation. I don't think it's necessarily an issue with Aspire...perhaps it's an issue with the particular AI format coming from CS2 ?? I don't recall anyone on the Vectric forum reporting trouble importing AI files, but I don't know what versions of AI they may have been working with. (I'm guessing and assuming that's the format you are saving to before importing into Aspire).

I think it would be good for you to contact Vectric Tech Support regarding what you are experiencing. They may want you to send them a sample of your files, so they can take a peek. http://support.vectric.com/contact

I sometimes use my AI CS4 (I have a friend who is on a Mac...he sends me AI files every now and then). However, my own preference is CorelDRAW X3, X4 or the new X6, depending on my mood that day, I guess.:) In any case, I prefer working with EPS files for importing into other programs, including Aspire, so I (nearly) always save my vectors as EPS.

Try the EPS format and see if that streamlines things for you. Also, contact Vectric Tech Support. I'll be interested in hearing how you make out.

All the Best to you.

[mtylerfl]

the error can drive you nuts. it is usually caused by some wacky nodes crossing or really narrow points. but they only show up when you do the toolpathing. or there could be chunks of scrap in there you get when you select all.

That's a VERY good point...and I have seen that myself from files sent to me...can be a real pain to clean up for modeling or machining. It's easy for an illustrator/designer to get vectors crossing or looping and they don't even realize it. Glad you mentioned that.

[Brian Moran]

Hello, I have two smaller quirks with Aspire that hopefully someone can comment on.

1) When I create a file in Adobe Illustrator CS2 and then import it as vector art into Aspire, many of the letters wind up with duplicated vectors stacked up on top of each other. The duplicated vectors that make up the letters are slightly offset from the bottom vectors, so they can be seen if I zoom in. Then I have to go and manually delete all the extra letter vectors so that I only have one set of letters. This only happens with letters, and not with anything else.

2) Also when importing vector images from Illustrator CS2, I use the Aspire check for open vectors command, and it says there are no open vectors. But then when I go to create a cut file (V-carve), it gives a message saying that two open vectors were found and will be ignored. I go back and re-test the vector image, and it says there are no open vectors. I go back to make the cut file again, and it says there are two open vectors, but they will be ignored. When I created the cut file, and then ran it, everything was fine. So do I have open vectors that the check for open vector tool can't find, or is the software confused when it tells me it will ignore the two open vectors in order to create the cut file?

Thanks, Chuck
Hi Chuck,

Can you send the files - both the original file from illustrator and the CRV3D that is giving you the warnings to support@vectric.com so we can look at it?

The open vectors message from toolpathing but no open vectors being found with the select open vectors command, normally only occurs if the open vectors are inside a group and hence are not selectable individually by the select open vectors command.

Duplicate vectors are common from many drawing packages if fills etc have been applied, as the drawing package will often create a duplicate entity with the fill or other attribute. This is why we added the 'select duplicate vectors' command to the Vectric products.

Brian

[mtylerfl]

Well how about that! There ya go, Chuck! As is the norm...Excellent Customer Service from Vectric! Send them the files Brian requested and you'll be all set! (You are in good hands.)

[Chuck Keysor]

Thanks Steve, Michael and Brian:

a) I have sent the AI file and a fresh copy of the untouched Aspire file to Brian/Vectric for examination.

b) Concerning the matter of Illustrator CS2 files opening in Aspire with duplicated vectors, and not finding open vectors as I reported in the yesterday here in the Shopbot forum: I re-ran this file. I did use the select all duplicate vectors command, and it selected some, and I hit delete. Then I tried to select the duplicate vectors again, and this time is said there were none. But when I checked, there were in fact lots of them, maybe 40 or 50. HOWEVER, these duplicated vectors were offset by .002", so of course, I can not imagine that any software would be able to tell they were duplicated when they were off-set by so much.... IE, the software couldn't know what lines I wanted and what ones I didn't when the difference was that great.

So, I am not saying anything is busted or wrong with Aspire, but I do want them to be aware that this situation exists, and perhaps they can provide suggestions as to how this can be worked around (such as using only EPS files for example).

Also, the find open vector command found no open vectors, but when creating the cut file, it said there were open vectors that would be ignored.

2) As Michael suggested, I created an EPS file and opened that in Aspire. In that case, it did not create any duplicate vectors. But the entire file was shifted to the lower left of the screen (of course that is not a problem, but it is a difference) and one extra loop in a vector was created.

I deleted that loop, and centered the vector image. When I went to create the cut file, I DID get the message saying that there were two open vectors that will be ignored. I hit OK, and what was created, was a negative image........... Instead of cutting to form grooves where ever I had drawn lines, the lines were left, and everything else was cut-away! Mind you, so far I have only been doing V-carving, (and lots of it) and no pocket cutting types of tool paths usually done with end mills. So I was surprised, and interested, as while this would be a useful result to have upon command, I wouldn't know how to do this if I had wanted to. Of course, I had the depth limit option enabled.

Thanks, Chuck

[Chuck Keysor]

OOOPS,,,, I went back and realized two things that are important.

1) When I import either the AI file or the EPS file, the outlining boarder of my image was a line about .02 wide. In both cases, that line should have been seen in Aspire as a pair of vectors, offset by .02. Well, only one vector was created, so to recreate the correct image, in Aspire, I had to fix this by adding the extra vector.

2) I had forgotten I had this problem noted in 1 when I went to create the EPS test file as Michael suggested. So, I didn't pay attention, and so failed to add the missing extra vector to the boarder. That resulted in the cut file cutting away everything that was supposed to have been left, and leaving everything that should have been cut away............ So that point of mystery in my previous post can be ignored.

2a) But that also means I failed to report a problem in my original post. The problem is that when I imported the AI file, my outline/boarder was messed up by not being correctly created. Only one of two expected/needed vectors were created. So please add that to my list of concerns......... Chuck

[Chuck Keysor]

Hello, I got a good reply from Vectric concerning my having to go and delete duplicated vectors on letters that were created in Adobe Illustrator. The problem was that I had left the fill in my letters. They said that if I turn off the fill in the letters in Adobe Illustrator (there is a command to turn letters into outlines in Illustrator) that my over-lying/slightly offset extra letters will go away.

Bottom line: They said that I have to eliminate all fill in the AI file before bringing it into Aspire.

Chuck

[Chuck Keysor]

My other question in this post had been about open vectors. After I had imported my AI file, I did a Select Open Vector command, and I found none. But when I went to generate the cut file, I got a warning saying that two open vectors had been found, and would be ignored.

I sent the AI file and the Aspire file to Vectric Support. They said that in fact they found two open vectors in my file, but they said they were very small. They said that I should just use the select open vectors command and then delete, even if I don't see anything.

For what it is worth I did open up that file and zoomed way in, but still could not find the open vectors. Well, they are there no doubt, so I will just do a select open vectors and delete sequence next time.

Thanks, Chuck

[knight_toolworks]

The open vectors message from toolpathing but no open vectors being found with the select open vectors command, normally only occurs if the open vectors are inside a group and hence are not selectable individually by the select open vectors command.

Brian
No I get it in ungrouped too when a node problem is there. but the software won't tell you what one it is. a overlapping line or some other wacky thing.

[Brian Moran]

Hi Chuck,


My other question in this post had been about open vectors. After I had imported my AI file, I did a Select Open Vector command, and I found none. But when I went to generate the cut file, I got a warning saying that two open vectors had been found, and would be ignored.



You DO have two small open vectors in that file as Mark pointed out in his email reply to you....


There are also 2 extremely small open vectors on the outer “elephant” vector,
as they are on top of the main vector, you cannot easily see these, but
you can delete these, by using the “Edit > Select All Open Vectors” command and then
hitting delete.


When you import the file and use the 'Select Open Vectors' command if you look down on the status line it will tell you that you have 2 vectors selected (S:2). If you press the delete key these will be deleted and if you run the command again it will show there are no open vectors and you will not get the warning from the toolpath command.



1) When I import either the AI file or the EPS file, the outlining boarder of my image was a line about .02 wide. In both cases, that line should have been seen in Aspire as a pair of vectors, offset by .02. Well, only one vector was created, so to recreate the correct image, in Aspire, I had to fix this by adding the extra vector.
Aspire (or any other machining package I'm aware of) will not treat a single line drawn in illustrator with a line width as a double line. This behavior would make most peoples illustrator files unmachinable. To create a double width vector line, we would need to offset your orignal line both inwards and outwards by .01 and delete the original line, this is not something we plan to do automatically.

Brian

[Brian Moran]

No I get it in ungrouped too when a node problem is there. but the software won't tell you what one it is. a overlapping line or some other wacky thing.
Steve,

You only get the 'Open Vector' message if there are open vectors. If there are crossings or other problems with the data you get a warning that the toolpath couldn't be calculated, but you only get the error message about ignoring open vectors if there are open vectors. If you have a file you believe shows something different, please send it to us at support so we can look at it, but we have never found a file reporting open vectors which didn't actually have open vectors.

Brian

[Mayo]

Chuck, you mentioned that you were importing letters that were created in Illustrator. Were these part of a font or were they drawn by you? The reason I ask is because I have found some fonts (especially ones found on various free font web sites) to be full of excess nodes and weird stray nodes at times, indicating the font may have been created by scanning a printed original and then using an auto trace program to create the vectors.

Or if you scanned something and then auto traced it, there may be a setting in the trace/vectorize function to remove or ignore speckles or noise.

[dauteuil]

Hi everyone.
When transfering files from illustrator to Aspire make sure there is no fill for the paths. Just the outline.
Aspire treats objects from illustrator as two overlaying objects. One for the fill, and one for the stroke.
So just remove all color fills and just simply keep the strokes (outlines).
You can then export as standard .ai file.
Hope this helps.
Bernard.

[knight_toolworks]

Steve,

You only get the 'Open Vector' message if there are open vectors. If there are crossings or other problems with the data you get a warning that the toolpath couldn't be calculated, but you only get the error message about ignoring open vectors if there are open vectors. If you have a file you believe shows something different, please send it to us at support so we can look at it, but we have never found a file reporting open vectors which didn't actually have open vectors.

Brian
not sure exactly I will keep my eyes open for them. I choose select all open vectors but get nothing though I hit delete. and still get the message. I have run the file with no problems before on some of them.
Some of them I fix with node editing. I am so used to it I just fix it without think exactly what it is anymore. But many time I use sect all open vectors and it does not select them.