Value of building a custom guitar?

[myxpykalix]

My granddaughter is interested in taking guitar lessons (i'd like her to learn blues guitar, myself) anyway I am thinking i could barter with someone for giving her lessons I would make them a custom carved, designed, whatever they want guitar in exchange and although i'm not a custom guitar maker i'm sure i have plenty of friends on here who are:rolleyes:

So if i get stuck i'm sure i can get advice in order to make something decent. My question is, how can i figure a value in order to make sure i get an equal value in lessons?:confused:

[shilala]

Jack, I'm not a guitar genius, but I do know that the value of a custom guitar is commensurate with the skill of the maker. A very good guitar can fetch upwards of $4,000. A good guitar runs around $1000-$2000, while a good used guitar is around $800.
There are so, so many things that come into play to make a well-tuned quality guitar that it'd be almost impossible for you to build a guitar that would be valuable to someone who is a skilled guitarist.
I mean no disrespect whatsoever, but it'd probably be better for you to make the instructor something that you're very good at, and to make the guitar for yourself as your starter guitar.
Then both of you will be super pleased. :)

A thought...
Lots of guys have guitars that they like customized. Maybe they want something like a silver dollar or cameo or some other item embedded in the guitar, or want some inlay work done. If you're really good at that sort of thing, you might make someone very happy.
Myself, I wouldn't do it because I know how guys are with their guitars. I'd be afraid to make a mistake. But I've never done any inlay work. If I was really good and confident, I'd go for it.

Regardless of how you decide to go, I'm excited to see your project come along!!!

[tomwillis]

Hey Jack & Scott,

Came across this web site recently, called Grabcad. If you search for '60s Strat....you can download the CAD file (free- just register) for both the body n neck. Probably can buy the neck for cheaper than building it....but it could open up some options for custom inlays etc. Food for thought.
Tom

[danhamm]

Do some research Jack, there is a lot more to it than just cutting it out.

[Ajcoholic]

Do some research Jack, there is a lot more to it than just cutting it out.

This... :)

Guitar making (you didnt specify acoustic or electric) is a wee bit more complicated than just making the parts. That is not to say anyone good at woodworking cannot do it, but there are some special skills one has to learn to make a great playing guitar.

I've been building them (mainly electric solid bodies, but I have done several semi hollows, and acoustic flat top and one jazz archtop) since the mid 1980s' - probably 50 to 60 by now. I know it takes a few under your belt to get good at it.

It isnt just the building, it is also the set up, the fretting and dressing - the neck shape and size, etc.

For a one-of, I wouldnt bother.

AJC

[Ajcoholic]

by the way, customs can go from hudreds, to thousands to TENS of thousands. There is a well known female luthier here in Ontario, Canada that demands $20,000 or so for a custom flat top acoustic. And shes got a waiting list of years.

I have built several customs for people in the $1200 to $2000 range... and they were fairly simple guitars, but with top quality hardware and electronics.

Myself, I have spent $1200 JUST on the hardware and electronics for one of my personal guitars... never minds severl hundred more for a piece of choice quilted maple, ebony for the fretboard, etc.

AJC

[myxpykalix]

Boy oh boy talk about raining on my parade!:rolleyes: lol

I know there is way more to it then just cutting it out but i do know it is an art for sure. I was talking about a electric gituar and have seen some guys here make what looks to me more like a work of art then a gituar.

I know there are tons of plans and drawings out there. And yes i think i'd rather make one from scratch then try to modify someones gituar and possibly mess it up for sure.
I have read alot about guys cutting fretboards and inlaying mother of pearl, ect and it might be cheaper to buy that part assembled.

Andrew it sounds like you have plenty of experience making gituars, if i get into this i may need to ask you about sources for the electronics, ect.

This is one of those things where it really doesn't matter how much time and effort it takes to make this, if i can get lessons for the granddaughter who is interested.
I'd like to see her become a blues gituarist like B.B. King or Robert Cray (i have a story about him some day i'll tell) or females like Carolyn Wonderland or Joanna Connor.
Myself, i have no musical ability or aspirations, maybe 50 years ago but not now.:D

[rcnewcomb]

Making custom truss rod covers might be something for you to consider as barter material. A Google search reveals lots of options: ->Link (https://www.google.com/search?q=custom+truss+rod+cover&hl=en&tbo=d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=l6udUJKKF8iMiALU0oDwCQ&sqi=2&ved=0CAQQ_AUoAA&biw=1671&bih=865)
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTvYvF0V29ZmQVi6ib4efCYdNb3Me6fl rt5ZUQ4lo4Cxbk5EOMg_w https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQtPJyynCRTHrsSZL0nz5DcKu0c8Jo7B vVgMdu9XOJymx85ZtTU https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSGG3BrzPrGNrmhx_PrXeA_e2mIJ94XD wF0R313i15jPaVh2lfc

[Ajcoholic]

Boy oh boy talk about raining on my parade!:rolleyes: lol

I know there is way more to it then just cutting it out but i do know it is an art for sure. I was talking about a electric gituar and have seen some guys here make what looks to me more like a work of art then a gituar.

I know there are tons of plans and drawings out there. And yes i think i'd rather make one from scratch then try to modify someones gituar and possibly mess it up for sure.
I have read alot about guys cutting fretboards and inlaying mother of pearl, ect and it might be cheaper to buy that part assembled.

Andrew it sounds like you have plenty of experience making gituars, if i get into this i may need to ask you about sources for the electronics, ect.

This is one of those things where it really doesn't matter how much time and effort it takes to make this, if i can get lessons for the granddaughter who is interested.
I'd like to see her become a blues gituarist like B.B. King or Robert Cray (i have a story about him some day i'll tell) or females like Carolyn Wonderland or Joanna Connor.
Myself, i have no musical ability or aspirations, maybe 50 years ago but not now.:D

Jack,
I am not one to discourage anyone from trying something - and if you had said "I am interested in learning how to make a guitar" I think my answer would have been different. That being said, if you have a good handle on woodworking then you CAN make a guitar. Its just that without some practice, the difference between a "so so" guitar and a great guitar is very, very much dependent upon the details.

It would be SO much easier if you were here, I could show you. Describing things on the internet is not quite as easy... :)

But Ill try and help :)

[myxpykalix]

I was just joshing you Andrew, i know. Clearly you are correct, and I am an experienced woodworker, not an experienced guitar maker, but hey you have to start with a first one sometime! Do you recall your first one and how you probably look back at it realizing with experience and practice you could make it better now.:)

It would be SO much easier if you were here, I could show you

I could be there in the morning....if you hear someone knocking in the morning it's just me!:D
thanks

[dana_swift]

As a guitar maker, I will chime in one very important detail.

Are you a musician as well as a guitar maker?

Can you intonate the strings? Is your ear good to at least 5 cents of pitch?

Do you know how to set the relief? Guitar finger boards SHOULD NOT BE FLAT. If you have played enough to have some favorite instruments, measure their back relief. The amount of string rise between the current fret and the nut. The strings need to go uphill in both directions or the instrument will buzz. Guitar value when it buzzes: $0.

Have you ever set a guitar up for playing of any kind? If you nave not, thinking about building a guitar shaped piece of firewood is not recommended for you or the person you have bargained with.

The best way to learn how to build is to start repairing guitars. Then the hard work is done, all you have to do is put it back the way it is supposed to be. Can you tune the braces if it is an acoustic? Do you know which pickups sound good if it is electric?

If you decide to go down the path, build at least one guitar FIRST then negotiate with the potential instructor when they can see what you can build.

And I will tell you from experience a lot of people will rave about your guitars to make you feel good, which means nothing. Reaching into their wallets means something. Go to music festivals and look at how many people are making "botique" instruments. Some of them are astonishingly good and consistent from instrument to instrument. Most of them are not. They all get rave reviews. Many fewer get owners.

My first guitar was dispatched to the fireplace about 40 years ago. I am still learning.

If you do decide to build an instrument I have to warn you of one real problem beyond all the others. Its ADDICTIVE. The first one teases you to do better. Then you build another one trying to get that last little problem out, only to discover there is a new issue. This process will last you the rest of your life.

You have been warned-

D

[Ajcoholic]

As a guitar maker, I will chime in one very important detail.

Are you a musician as well as a guitar maker?

Can you intonate the strings? Is your ear good to at least 5 cents of pitch?

Do you know how to set the relief? Guitar finger boards SHOULD NOT BE FLAT. If you have played enough to have some favorite instruments, measure their back relief. The amount of string rise between the current fret and the nut. The strings need to go uphill in both directions or the instrument will buzz. Guitar value when it buzzes: $0.

Have you ever set a guitar up for playing of any kind? If you nave not, thinking about building a guitar shaped piece of firewood is not recommended for you or the person you have bargained with.

The best way to learn how to build is to start repairing guitars. Then the hard work is done, all you have to do is put it back the way it is supposed to be. Can you tune the braces if it is an acoustic? Do you know which pickups sound good if it is electric?

If you decide to go down the path, build at least one guitar FIRST then negotiate with the potential instructor when they can see what you can build.

And I will tell you from experience a lot of people will rave about your guitars to make you feel good, which means nothing. Reaching into their wallets means something. Go to music festivals and look at how many people are making "botique" instruments. Some of them are astonishingly good and consistent from instrument to instrument. Most of them are not. They all get rave reviews. Many fewer get owners.

My first guitar was dispatched to the fireplace about 40 years ago. I am still learning.

If you do decide to build an instrument I have to warn you of one real problem beyond all the others. Its ADDICTIVE. The first one teases you to do better. Then you build another one trying to get that last little problem out, only to discover there is a new issue. This process will last you the rest of your life.

You have been warned-

D

All the above... Is true!

I don't have the whole guitar I built as the first one, bu I do have the neck. Just to remind me how far I've come, but that furs one was playable and was on at least 4 bodies.

I can certainly see how being a player makes out a better builder, however as a player I also know every guitar player likes a different set up. I like fat necks, low action and an almost straight fretboard with little relief. And a wider than average nut and string spacing. Someone else might like the complete opposite.

You really have to know the guys preferences to build him one. I have, for instance, taken a players favourite neck and copied it on a new guitar, to give a familiar feel. Lots of variables.

AJC

[myxpykalix]

Whew! Dana and Andrew... There are certainly an awful lot of variables to think about. The first step is to find someone interested in bartering, then to see how much they know about what they want.
I myself "cannot play a lick" so i won't be able to tune it. You've given me a bunch to chew on there fellas...some tasty, some, not so much!:eek:

[sagreen]

Jack, I thought you had a copy of my guitar body building DVDs?

I've built around 25 guitars, and I can personally tell you 2 things...

1) It takes a long time to build a guitar from scratch. The bot saves time, but there is a lot of hand work that goes into building a guitar.
2) I like the sound and playability of the guitars I build. Nothing better than playing a guitar that you built yourself!

Oh and I agree with Dana... Guitar building is addictive!!

Scott...

http://www.rmgvideos.com

[gerryv]

The thing about luthierie more than most other things is it hinges so much on how the standards you judge your work by compare to the standards others judge your work by. I'd not touch it with a ten foot ...pick, even if I was an accomplished woodworker and Shopbotter.

[myxpykalix]

Yes scott, now that i think about it i do....man oh man my memory is REALLY going....THANK YOU

I will find them and start going over it. What I seem to get from you experienced guitar makers is a forewarning of the extreme amount of work involved in undertaking the project. Which i appreciate, because you shouldn't take a job on only to find that half way thru it's way more then you expected.

In all reality financially it might be cheaper to just pay for the lessons but i'm hoping she will keep her interest up in it so that by the time she gets proficient i could make her first guitar for her, one she may play long after i'm gone.

So if i trade away the first one the second one should be better.:D

[dana_swift]

Jack- there is more to tuning than the act of setting the pitch of the strings after the guitar is built.

The fat strings are less flexible than the thin strings. So the effective length is different musically. As a result the bridge has to be tuned for each string such that when you hit the 2nd harmonic it is on pitch, then when you fret each string at the 12th fret it also gives the same pitch. That is what I mean by tuning. It is part of the setup process. If you change the action on the strings, this adjustment goes out of whack.

What the player does when they adjust the tension of the strings is what non-musicians call tuning. There is more to it than that.

There are patented methods for setting the intonation, and others (I think works just as well), but for your education you might read up on:

http://www.buzzfeiten.com/howitworks/faq.htm

Another thing I can suggest is buy a strobe tuner. Peterson makes models with an intonation feature, as well as a resonance measurement feature. That doesn't help with what to DO about the measurement tho.. but it takes some of the subjectivity out of the process.

I use both a Peterson and an HP 3582A FFT spectrum analyzer for the intonation process. Good tools. The 3582A works with frequencies and harmonic structures, where the Peterson works with "notes".

Both electric and acoustic guitars must be intonation due to the metal strings. Nylon string instruments can get by without it.

Hope that makes sense.

D

[ron_moorehead]

Side Question, My wife won a banjo in a charity auction last night and now she wants me to build her a stand to display the banjo, does anyone have plans or know were I can find some plans for a stand.

Thanks.

[Ajcoholic]

Jack, here are two of my favourites. An archtop jazzbox (based on the plans from Bob Benedetto) and one of my own, a simple single pickup sold body based on Gibson's double cut Les Paul Jr.

Building guitars is VERY addictive.... very much so.

White limba neck & body, snakewood fretboard, triple bound body and neck.
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_0664.jpg
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_0667-1.jpg
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_0670.jpg
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_0679.jpg

[Ajcoholic]

my archtop. would have loved to have my shopbot for this one!

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/archtop/archtop2.jpg
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/archtop/archtop1.jpg
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/archtop/archtop3.jpg

[myxpykalix]

Andrew,
Those are not guitars...those are works of art! Beautiful stuff:D

Dana,
Hope that makes sense......Not a lick!
Not because you didn't explain it right, it's just that you are talking about things i am not familiar with, having no musical knowledge. Remember when you talk to me you are talking to a musical novice. I am hoping that whoever may be interested in this will have the musical knowledge and understand what you are saying and can have a part in the construction process to incorporate your suggestions.
I appreciate the info and as i go along i might have an eppifiny(?) where it will make sense when i come to that part, so keep up the info i appreciate it.:D

[Ajcoholic]

Andrew,
Those are not guitars...those are works of art! Beautiful stuff:D

Dana,
Hope that makes sense......Not a lick!
Not because you didn't explain it right, it's just that you are talking about things i am not familiar with, having no musical knowledge. Remember when you talk to me you are talking to a musical novice. I am hoping that whoever may be interested in this will have the musical knowledge and understand what you are saying and can have a part in the construction process to incorporate your suggestions.
I appreciate the info and as i go along i might have an eppifiny(?) where it will make sense when i come to that part, so keep up the info i appreciate it.:D

Jack,
Just trying to inspire you :)

I agree with what Dana says, however intonating a guitar is pretty striaght forward provided you can get your hands on a decent tuner that is accurate enough. I also use a strobe tuner, but for most musicians, especially for a rock and roll player, blues player, etc a higher quality tuner will suffice.

One thing, you can probably take it to a music shop to get the final set up done for a resonable price.

I might suggest, that copying a Fender Telecaster, might be the easiest way to get familiar with guitar making. Flat body, minimal shaping. Bolt on maple neck, with again minimal shaping. A Stratocaster would be the next logical step.

There are some excellent books on building and getting started. if you want more info, again just shoot me a pm.

AJC

By the way, check out Stewart Macdonald for a great place to buy stuff in the USA (parts, plans, wood, hardware, etc). Also, Luthiers Mercantile.

[dana_swift]

Andrew- your suggestion is a very good one. I never thought of going to a music store, since I can do it myself.

Your other suggestions are also very good- built a tele first. It has one other advantage, you can get cases for it.

Loved your photos- one of these days I will have to take some fresh shots. Looks like a nitro finish on that one you are shown playing. You must have had some classical training. I'm a right leg "folk style" sort of guy.

D

[genek]

Jack go to www.harpkit.com or call 800-432-5487 or 651-439-9120 i order parts and kits from there from time to time. You can get a complete guitar kit there or a cheap one there.

[bcondon]

So a friend of my logger was telling about his buddy that he loans his band saw mill to, gets $1000 for ONE pieces of wood to make up the back of the
guitar. I which I knew the details but it is a special species of wood, grown on the specific side of a mountain. He finds 1 or two trees per year and delivers them cut to a high end manufacturer....

The quality, thickness and interior grain of the backing of theguitar is what makes (resonates) the sound. We went to the music shop at Colonial Williamsburg and violins, cello etc have the same condition... You keep sanding until you get a specific tone when you thump it with your finger

[myxpykalix]

I have a chance to barter for a bunch of Mahogany (haven't seen it yet) and wondered if that made a good wood for making electric guitars out of? :confused:

[Ajcoholic]

Sure it is. If its true mahogany all the better, but African mahogany (khaya) works great too if you can find a piece that's not too heavy. Spanish cedar (cedro) and Australian lacewood work well too.

[rb99]

Unless you really want to build a guitar for the sake of building one, there are much better / easier ways for you to fund lessons.

I cannot understand how someone who does not play, and play well could build a good playing instrument.

Most guitar teachers are pretty good players, and will own a number of fine instruments. Tough audience to please on your first build as a non player.

Guitars today are better than ever, and decent guitars can be purchased inexpensively. Fender Strats, Telecasters sell in the $200 range.

I can go on and on here, but I think I have said enough about it for now.

Build a guitar for the love of the project, but don't expect your 1st guitar to be a game changer. Also expect to pay top dollar for hardware if you want your guitar to sound decent and stay in tune.

[myxpykalix]

I actually had made a deal with a teacher to do some cabinets and some remodeling work in exchange for lessons for the granddaughter. But my main motivation for wanting to build a guitar is to build one for the granddaughter so that when she gets good at it she will have something to play that i made for her so that long after i'm gone it will be something she can remember me by.

We went out and i bought her a first guitar to learn on but i'd like to be able to learn to build a good guitar that will be my legacy to her along with getting her taught how to play.
I hear alot of "negitive nellies" :D telling me how hard it is, ect. and I appreciate the forewarning but i have a different motivation other then just to be building something. We all have to start somewhere in persuing a desire and this is something i'd like to do. I'm sure it might take me a time or two but you have to start somewhere:eek: thanks

[Ajcoholic]

I actually had made a deal with a teacher to do some cabinets and some remodeling work in exchange for lessons for the granddaughter. But my main motivation for wanting to build a guitar is to build one for the granddaughter so that when she gets good at it she will have something to play that i made for her so that long after i'm gone it will be something she can remember me by.

We went out and i bought her a first guitar to learn on but i'd like to be able to learn to build a good guitar that will be my legacy to her along with getting her taught how to play.
I hear alot of "negitive nellies" :D telling me how hard it is, ect. and I appreciate the forewarning but i have a different motivation other then just to be building something. We all have to start somewhere in persuing a desire and this is something i'd like to do. I'm sure it might take me a time or two but you have to start somewhere:eek: thanks

Jack,
Now you are doing it for the right reason! :)

If I can help in any way, shoot me an email.

acoholic@ntl.sympatico.ca

AJC

[rb99]

I agree... You started this thread saying you wanted to build a guitar, your first, and then trade it to an experienced player for music lessons.

Now that has changed into a keepsake for your granddaughter. It may not be the best player/sounding guitar but it will no doubt be treasured by her.

[myxpykalix]

Yes my first thought was to build one in exchange for lessons but like some have suggested they may already have guitars. This guy happens to be in the middle of trying to remodel a kitchen which is not his forte, so cabinets are easier to build then guitars:rolleyes:

I know many have said how hard it is but if Andrew C can build one how hard could they really be, after all?:rolleyes: lol

[myxpykalix]

I'll certainly take those "words of encouragement" into account as I start getting things together:rolleyes:

[rb99]

Good luck and I bet you'll prove me wrong!

[Ajcoholic]

Yes my first thought was to build one in exchange for lessons but like some have suggested they may already have guitars. This guy happens to be in the middle of trying to remodel a kitchen which is not his forte, so cabinets are easier to build then guitars:rolleyes:

I know many have said how hard it is but if Andrew C can build one how hard could they really be, after all?:rolleyes: lol

I have helped several people build their first guitar from scratch. And, they turned out very well - at least as good as a basic factory model from a big manufacturer.

Remember, guitar building is not intrinsically "hard" - it is after all fairly straight forward woodworking. However there are some special skill sets you need to learn, mainly in the fretwork and set up as I stated early on.

I was 15 when I did my first, all by hand and without any books or help. And it was playable!

It can be done. Just need to learn a few things that you dont know yet. And, as I said also, it might be best to take the completed guitar to a pro shop to get it set up.

AJC

[dmidkiff]

Jack and all, This was interesting info and advice. I have also thought of building a guitar someday, but can not play. So my thoughts have not yet been very serious. I saw this guy on Texas Country Reporter just this morning and thought it might be of interest to you. This link is a picture of him with a couple of his guitars made from cigar or candy boxes.

http://dailysentinel.com/news/image_82c330a2-6766-11e0-9a91-001cc4c03286.html