Buddy Standard vs. Alpha?

[Second Childhood]

I am a prospective Buddy buyer. I have read a great deal on the site about the differences between the Alpha and the Standard, although speak to the Buddy versions. I am a home woodworker that does an occasional piece on commission. I have a strong preference for solid well build machines. My primary power tool is a Knapp combination machine that weighs almost 2 tons and runs 3 6hp motors on 3 phase power. Likely overkill, but I love it.

My usage of a CNC machine will be to carve out seats for rocking chairs and for milling/flattening large boards that won't fit in my 16' jointer/planer. All are typically 2" walnut or curly maple boards.

Is an Alpha overkill for my application? Any other recommendations about how to configure my order?

Doug

[dana_swift]

Hello Douglas!

You will be happy with either machine. Standards cut at about half the speed of alphas, but cut reliably and accurately. What alphas do is offer higher speed with servo-feedback. That is nice to have (my BT-32 is an alpha) but not essential. If you can afford an alpha, its a better machine with higher torque and speed.

Also look at the BT-48 size with powersticks. Powersticks allow the buddy to cut a full sheet of plywood. REALLY handy. Then when you are not doing big work, you have a small machine footprint. But 8 foot and longer powersticks REQUIRE the alpha.

When I bought my BT-32 I thought I didn't want a full sheet ability. I was very wrong. Once I had a shopbot I found it got used on many more projects than my original intentions. Fortunately I have access to a full size gantry shopbot for my occasional full-sheet projects.

As to making chair seats, you will be well served to put money into Aspire. Its really good at that kind of project. Aspire has both "carve" and cutout features that are hard to beat. The extra money for Aspire may force the decision to go with the standard. Aspire for your application is more important than the Alpha in my humble opinion. Others may disagree.

A digitizer probe will go mostly unused. Save the cash. Your cell phone camera will do the job for most needs once you have learned a bit.

When you make a set of chairs and they all come out the same, yet completely customized post us some photos! And check out the ones already posted.

When I buy new technology, I have fantasy's about what it can do that usually turn into disappointments. The shopbot was different, I had not dreamed enough. Very likely the shopbot will become more useful than you ever expected.


D

[Acmeaviator]

Aspire for your application is more important than the Alpha in my humble opinion.

I have a BT48 standard and agree 100%. The bigger question for me when deciding on my buddy purchase was 32vs48 rather than alpha vs standard. I am VERY glad I spent the extra money on the 48! I actually run my buddy "sideways" with the 48 my long axis and the short powerstick giving me my short axis. I have the caster kit installed and a 6ft stick available for the rare times I need to cut anything larger.

[crash5050]

I wish I would have bought an alpha. 4ips is a pretty good cut speed, but 7 or 8 would be better.

David

[paul_z]

David,

I have a PRT Alpha 48x96 and I cut at 4ips or less 95% of the time. There are rare occasions that I will cut at 10 ips.

I do like the fedback loop on the steppers that will stop the machine if steps are being missed. It has saved several pieces of material and lots of cutting hours.

I also find that visitors are really impressed by the 30 ips jog speed. God help the bot (and me) if it ever hits the limit stops at that speed.

Paul Z

[jhedlund58]

I agree 100% with Mr Decker... I have virtually same setup as he... and LOVE it. this is my first CNC machine had i known more about them at time of purchase.. may have written bigger check.... NO REGRETS.. as i hobbyist. Had i had to make the choice between an alpha machine or aspire... sure i wood have bought aspire first. Like i tell the kids... don't care how long homework takes... just get the A quality work

[Joe Porter]

Douglas, as far as structure and and frame strength and build quality, the Standard and Alpha are the same. As a matter of fact, the smaller the machine, the stronger it gets because they use the same components to build the Buddy's as the largest machines, just cut off shorter.
I know you enjoy the look and feel of the Knapp, and the Buddy will not disappoint. When you hear about the Alpha being stronger than the Standard, that applies to the electric motors and closed loop system they run on. If you study the ShopBot descriptions on the homepage you will find more details about strength and speeds, etc.
If you can afford it, the Alpha and a spindle is top of the line. I have a PC router and a Standard and am quite happy.I agree with everyone else, especially for chair making, Aspire is a must.
You can always upgrade from the Standard to the Alpha and from a router to a spindle in the future. However, if you think you need the 48" width, that is pretty much set in stone, (or steel).
Good luck with your purchase decision, whichever ShopBot you choose, you cannot go wrong. joe

[Second Childhood]

I am quite impressed with how active this forum is. I am very appreciative that each of you took the time to respond. Based on what you have all said and some other research I have done, I am leaning towards ordering a BT48 Standard with Spindle plus the Aspire software upgrade. I also am considering the 6' Powerstick as well.
Any other advice on what to order with my unit?

Doug

[Simops]

Douglas,

I have the BT48 standard and could not be happier.....if you are looking at production and volume work than the alpha is a must but for what I do ( prototyping parts for business and occasional hobby furniture parts) the standard is all you need.

What I also suggest is get
* 2.2 hp spindle ( you won't regret it over the router)
* castors (not essential but boy makes life easier positioning the unit in its final resting place)
* 6' power stick ( you get the 4' as standard but this will do 24" x 48"). The 6' will do 48 x 48 sheet stock no probs and I now permenantly leave it set up with the 6' stick, which does not need to be supported even though I still do:)
* and get the Starter kit bit set fom SB.....it's not a gimmick.....Shopbot has really put together a great start-up kit of bits and colletts and you will appreciate having it.....as time goes on and your knowledge increases you will add to it.

I also got the SB dust shoe included at no cost I believe ( can't remember know) but to be honest ended up replacing it with the Kent dust shoe and it is great! Definitely need DC.

One thing I found was that the factory fitted Deck (below your spoilboard) was water resistant MDF, which I guess was not water resistant when traveling on the back of a ship 10,000 miles to here.....it was warped enough for me to change it once I passed the initial learning curve. Previous Buddy owners got an aluminum deck.....lucky bastards!

As to software I stuck it out with Partworks, which you get free (same as Vectic's VCarvePro6) and is excellent and I use most often, but once you get the SB it's addictive and you end up buying more than you really need ..... I bought Aspire as well as want to do more 3D stuff but too busy to get around to it and just keep using Partworks. BTW Shopbot's Webinars and Vetric web site are great resources for learning Partworks/Aspire.

Good luck

MT

[dana_swift]

Douglas- you are entirely welcome.

My suggestion on spindle and alpha.. if you can afford the spindle- use the money on the alpha and use a PC router. You can replace a lot of routers for the price of one spindle.

I have been running my BT-32 for over 5 years and am on my second PC router. Its still not showing signs of needing replaced and its only $300 when the time comes.

Spindles are very nice indeed and in a 24 hour a day production shop that may be very important. But forget to warm up a spindle just once and you can damage the bearings. Routers are just turn them on and go. Spindles have much higher real horsepower than a router. A spindle rated at 3 horsepower really is 3 horsepower. A router rated at 3 horsepower is more like 1/2 or 3/4 of a real horsepower. How they get away with such exaggerated ratings I have no idea. What changes is the depth of cut. Spindles have the power to push the cutting edge through much more material at a time.

I leave my router at about 1/2 of its selectable rpm range and it makes the bearings last forever. (Thank you Bill Palumbo for the tip!) It still has plenty of horsepower in hard woods like walnut.

There is an excellent tutorial on router bits posted on the forum. I highly suggest you download it and read it. You will learn a lot about bits, routers and spindles. And its free.


D

[Ajcoholic]

I am quite impressed with how active this forum is. I am very appreciative that each of you took the time to respond. Based on what you have all said and some other research I have done, I am leaning towards ordering a BT48 Standard with Spindle plus the Aspire software upgrade. I also am considering the 6' Powerstick as well.
Any other advice on what to order with my unit?

Doug

Doug,
I am coming up fast to my first full year with my Buddy - I went with a Alpha 48 and the 6 foot powerstick (I have never used the shorter stick) and a 4HP HSD spindle.

I do a fair bit of what you are looking to do, ie, highly carved chair seats and other furniture parts. I bought Aspire, and it is great for that stuff once you know how to use it (plan on several weeks of daily use to get the basics down).

I am very pleased with my setup. I cannot say if I would have been as happy if I went with the standard - but after describing what I planned to do with the machine it was suggested to me to go Alpha rather than standard.

I actually just got in 300 BF of black walnut today, to process into 8 dining room chairs shortly after the holidays.... cant wait to run the seats, it still gives me a great feeling when I see the Bot' cranking them out identically one after the other and know that I can do something else while they carve rather than spend days doing it by hand.

Also, I bought a probe with my machine, and, it is still new in the box unused... I know some day I will use it, but with Aspire, it has not been necesary yet.

AJC

[Ajcoholic]

Oh yes, plan to buy a Kent CNC dust foot if you want to really be happy! :) Dana suggested that to me after I was not really satisfied with the stock unit... and I have been SUPER happy with it.