Shopbot Canada and CSA

[Sk8MFG]

I recently had an inspector pop by my shop to take a look at my recent addition of a spray booth. All well... till he spotted the control box and VFD for my new to me Alpha.

His only question. "Where are the CSA stickers on it?"
My answer. "No idea"
His reply. "That is a problem"


Has anyone run into a similar situation?
Are all the sub components simply CSA approved, but not the machine as a whole?

[myxpykalix]

It sounds to me like just another government bureacrat flexing their authority. The only thing that ultimately change is if you get some type of sticker on there.
Will that sticker somehow make it more magically safe? No...
Be looking for some type of shutdown notice in the mail soon.

Government regulations at it's finest....keep us informed of the hoops you have to jump thru.:rolleyes:

[kevin]

CSA get a sticker from a iron most electrical panel are not CSA approved

Techinal all electrical would need a sticker spindle etc

[Sk8MFG]

It sounds to me like just another government bureacrat flexing their authority. The only thing that ultimately change is if you get some type of sticker on there.
Will that sticker somehow make it more magically safe? No...
Be looking for some type of shutdown notice in the mail soon.

Government regulations at it's finest....keep us informed of the hoops you have to jump thru.:rolleyes:

From reading, I don't think it's going to be a huge problem. phew!


As far as I can see, a few hundred bucks to have a specialized inspector to come out and slap a sticker on it. Small price to keep things running.

Luckily, I only have the controller at the moment. Rest of the machine is making its way to me, so no worry of a "raid".


By chance, if anyone does have some CSA information feel free to add. I'll be back in my shop tomorrow to look for any stickers I can on the components.

[rb99]

From reading, I don't think it's going to be a huge problem. phew!


As far as I can see, a few hundred bucks to have a specialized inspector to come out and slap a sticker on it. Small price to keep things running.

Luckily, I only have the controller at the moment. Rest of the machine is making its way to me, so no worry of a "raid".


By chance, if anyone does have some CSA information feel free to add. I'll be back in my shop tomorrow to look for any stickers I can on the components.

Screw that...save your $200.

I had an inspector one time come in and try to get me to get everything in the shop inspected...old drills, hand tools everything. I never did. I got my own CSA designation and never got Ontario Hydro back into my shop.Shopbot controllers will be UL or CSA approved I am sure. Just contact SB and they will no doubt set you up with the proper sticker. You cannot jut take one off an iron because they have numbers and doing that would be illegal.

When he comes back don't let him into the shop, show him the controller at your counter.

[kevin]

Its a joke about the iron

But not all all tools are CSA approved they are reaching .There no real way to even check on 15 year old tool if its CSA approved .There no serial number with sticker issued it can be a very grey area .

It come down to the electrican if hooks it up and is approved by Ontario inspector you have approved inspection CSA doesn't come in to play .I went through this when I open up my shop with the electrical inspector I don't think I had one CSA sticker approved machine

Talk to the electrican who hooked up your machine

Just curios do you have an air make up unit with your spray booth ?

[Sk8MFG]

It come down to the electrican if hooks it up and is approved by Ontario inspector you have approved inspection CSA doesn't come in to play .I went through this when I open up my shop with the electrical inspector I don't think I had one CSA sticker approved machine

Talk to the electrican who hooked up your machine

Hmmm, looks like my electrician and I have some brainstorming to do.





Just curios do you have an air make up unit with your spray booth ?

Nope, no heat recovery.

Haven't noticed any drop in temperature in the shop even during long sessions. Normally the booth isn't running for more than 20min/day.

[kevin]

http://city.milwaukee.gov/ImageLibrary/Groups/cityDCD/build/pdfs/SprayBooth.pdf

Here is what it takes to get a spray both approved in some citys it can be a real nightmare

But he or she approved the booth with out an air make up {is for a negative pressure in the building which can cause other problem wheter its 20 min a day 14 hr a day] .Sometimes it can be cofusing on what there after

I think you have a small problem they approved the booth that can be real problem

I work at an antique shop in Montreal after 10 years in the same locaton they came hard on him with proper exhuast and replacement air make up
cost 10,000 to comply

[Sk8MFG]

I work at an antique shop in Montreal after 10 years in the same locaton they came hard on him with proper exhuast and replacement air make up
cost 10,000 to comply

Ouch, that couldn't have been fun to upgrade.

Hm, negative building pressure never really crossed my mind.

[rb99]

Ouch, that couldn't have been fun to upgrade.

Hm, negative building pressure never really crossed my mind.

20 minutes a day just open a window a crack...

[Ajcoholic]

Ouch, that couldn't have been fun to upgrade.

Hm, negative building pressure never really crossed my mind.

My air make-up unit is my garage door. Its on the opposite side of the shop as my spray room. I open the door 6 inches when I spray. The air comes in cold but I am drawing the air from the shop (3200 sq feet) and the furnace is running, so the temps stay pretty warm even when I am spraying for 45 minutes at a time and is -20 C.

I am lucky, I have dealt with some pretty reasonable Electrical/WSIB/insurance inspectors. Most realize in a one or two man shop, you have to have some common sense and you cant go spending thousands upon thousands extra for what? The only thing I was made to do with my booth was put in an air solenoid, so airflow to my pressure pots wouldnt turn on unless the spray booth fan was running.

That being said, in order to have proper air flow you MUST have air coming into the shop.. or you just have still air cavitating in the booth and fan.

[Ajcoholic]

http://city.milwaukee.gov/ImageLibrary/Groups/cityDCD/build/pdfs/SprayBooth.pdf

Here is what it takes to get a spray both approved in some citys it can be a real nightmare

But he or she approved the booth with out an air make up {is for a negative pressure in the building which can cause other problem wheter its 20 min a day 14 hr a day] .Sometimes it can be cofusing on what there after

I think you have a small problem they approved the booth that can be real problem

I work at an antique shop in Montreal after 10 years in the same locaton they came hard on him with proper exhuast and replacement air make up
cost 10,000 to comply

Proper exhaust is another thing... you need to have the exhaust up high enough as not to disturb your neighbors. Even though Im out in the country, with my closest neighbour about 1000 feet down the road, I have my exhaust about 25 feet high facing to the back of my property (the woods) where the prevailing winds carry any smell or solvents away from their property, and disperse it.

We had a shop in a built up area previously, and we had to extend our exhaust 10 or 15 feet.

AJC

[kevin]

furnace is running
AJ is your furnace oil if it is it can suck the exhast

My air make unit is three 7 inch hole in the ceiling .I call it my poor mans air make up unit .It work great I ajusted the flow its pretty balanced IT NEVERE GET BELOW -3 CELIUS HERE.If your not carefully you can put a strain on your motor for the fan. Its like a straw sucking plug the hole or make the straw opening to big it doesn;t work properly

Thats why if your moving its important to do the research on a spay boths can be the most expensive investment in a cabinet shop/Did we mention spriklers

[Ajcoholic]

furnace is running
AJ is your furnace oil if it is it can suck the exhast

My air make unit is three 7 inch hole in the ceiling .I call it my poor mans air make up unit .It work great I ajusted the flow its pretty balanced IT NEVERE GET BELOW -3 CELIUS HERE.If your not carefully you can put a strain on your motor for the fan. Its like a straw sucking plug the hole or make the straw opening to big it doesn;t work properly

Thats why if your moving its important to do the research on a spay boths can be the most expensive investment in a cabinet shop/Did we mention spriklers

Heat is a high efficiency furnace. Intake and exhaust is outside, ie, it doesnt draw air from inside the shop. I can't starve the furnace for air, nor can I draw in the exhaust.

I also have a man-door in the spray room that opens out to the back of my property... I can always open that :)

AJC

PS it was -38 C yesterday at 7:30 am when I got to work!

[Simops]

It was +41 C (105F) yesterday here......got to 39C in the shop......that is when I stopped and jumped into the pool:D

[rb99]

H
PS it was -38 C yesterday at 7:30 am when I got to work!


It was +41 C (105F) yesterday here......got to 39C in the shop......that is when I stopped and jumped into the pool:D

Wow a 79 degree Celsius or 141.2 degree Fahrenheit difference.

[Ajcoholic]

Wow a 79 degree Celsius or 141.2 degree Fahrenheit difference.

At least I can turn up the heat... I don't have AC in the shop so I'm glad it's not 41 here!!

[Sk8MFG]

Far too little use of funny photos on this board.

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/029/970/trainn.jpg
;)

Hm, learn something new every day.

I'll be cracking my front door any time I spray from now on. It really hadn't occurred to me considering the size of my workspace.

As for my original question, I've examined my control box CSA/CE/UL stamps on damn near everything... so I guess that is a start.

In the interest of keeping my operation on the up and up I'll be calling in an inspector for an in field evaluation. I'll post my experience, may come in handy for other Canadian's using a bot in a commercial environment.

[rb99]

Far too little use of funny photos on this board.


;)

Hm, learn something new every day.

I'll be cracking my front door any time I spray from now on. It really hadn't occurred to me considering the size of my workspace.

As for my original question, I've examined my control box CSA/CE/UL stamps on damn near everything... so I guess that is a start.

In the interest of keeping my operation on the up and up I'll be calling in an inspector for an in field evaluation. I'll post my experience, may come in handy for other Canadian's using a bot in a commercial environment.

I think you are crazy to call them into go over your shop and charge you a fee for every tool and electrical device that the sticker had come off. They are a business too, and our call will be more work for them at your expense.

[gerryv]

For me the choice comes down to having any of "those" machines on plugs rather than hard wired until I'd have them checked and stickered. The power cord assemblies still need to be made of approved components themselves and not laying about where someone can trip on them. This way, in the event of a fire for example, it would seem to be pretty difficult for an insurance adjuster or fire marshall to blame it on electrical failure of the machine(s) in question. That's personal opinion though and not a recommendation ;)

It would also seem that a US built machine like the SB should stand a pretty good chance of passing muster with little or no changes needed.

[Sk8MFG]

I think you are crazy to call them into go over your shop and charge you a fee for every tool and electrical device that the sticker had come off. They are a business too, and our call will be more work for them at your expense.

All my other equipment is stamped.. besides the bot. All electrical work has been done professionally and inspected.

What would be crazy would be to run the equipment illegally and have my business fined and production impacted, not even considering any other associated losses, and a potential insurance problem.

It's a simple equation, is the cost of having the unit inspected less than having the unit taken out of service and the associated fines and losses? Inspection comes in a few hundred times cheaper at minimum.

[gerryv]

Excellent point. It's got my vote.

[rb99]

All my other equipment is stamped.. besides the bot. All electrical work has been done professionally and inspected.

What would be crazy would be to run the equipment illegally and have my business fined and production impacted, not even considering any other associated losses, and a potential insurance problem.

It's a simple equation, is the cost of having the unit inspected less than having the unit taken out of service and the associated fines and losses? Inspection comes in a few hundred times cheaper at minimum.

I ran a large shop for 15 years... I would absolutely NEVER call them in like a boy scout. If I need someone to visit my shop, it will not be people who want to find things for me to do that cost money. Once they know you are a cooperative mark, they will be back time and time again... and they will always find ways for you to spend money to justify their existence.

After a few years of them consistently coming back and finding new things that cost time and money I realized the game. then we started leaving things out that were obvious and would cost nothing to fix so when they would come in they could find something for their boss, but it would not disrupt production or cash flow.

It is like calling in the IRS and asking them to audit you in case you are not declaring all your taxes properly, and of course you would like to be charged for anything that they can dig up. We all try to pay our taxes and do things properly (maybe), but nobody calls them in to be audited...

[Ajcoholic]

I recently had an inspector pop by my shop to take a look at my recent addition of a spray booth. All well... till he spotted the control box and VFD for my new to me Alpha.

His only question. "Where are the CSA stickers on it?"
My answer. "No idea"
His reply. "That is a problem"


Has anyone run into a similar situation?
Are all the sub components simply CSA approved, but not the machine as a whole?

I was meaning to ask you where you are located? And who was doing the inspection - electrical inspector or someone from workplace health and safety?