Creating a box... Is it really this hard?

[aaronmc52]

Hi Guys,

I am still learning my machine and trying to advance beyond carving. I have completed most of the free Vectric tutorial files with fairly good success. Up next is to design a box to specific measurements and explore the various joining methods that can be produced on my Bot. The end goal is to create a wood box about the size of a small microwave that includes a lid with some sort of hinge. I am fairly comfortable with Aspire but I don't think that this is the best software to be using for this project. My first question is, what CAD software would you guys look at to design said box and basic parts like I am describing? The second question is would anyone be interested in designing the basic file per my needs for me to start with and learn from? I am more than willing to pay for the design effort as I feel that it would be much cheaper to go this route instead of using my $$$ Bot as a guinea pig on my ineptitude at first.

FWIW: I love my new Bot and am having a blast creating things! I can't wait until I am as comfortable as all of you are on turning ideas into reality!

[Joe Porter]

Aaron, have you looked at the "Paradise Box" project on the Vectric website? It is one of their free monthly projects designed by Michael Tyler. It is a very popular project. Look on the Vectric forum and you will see many variations and designs. The project requires PartWorks or Aspire to run it. Of course, you can scale it up or down to suit your size requirements. Michael uses a ShopBot Buddy to make his projects and supplies a tutorial on what works for him. This will be an excellent project for a new person as well as experienced user. Good luck, joe

[aaronmc52]

Joe,

Thanks for the reply. I have created several of the Paradise Boxes (for my kids). I had a blast I took their favorite things and carved them on the lid (monkey, football etc...) and carved their names on the front panel. I am not sure how to scale that box to be exact size with Aspire. I know I can set my material to a certain size and scale the files to fit however I am looking to get a little more precise in the measurements. Also, the Paradise box only uses a simple dado and I was hoping to learn a more complex joining technique.

[feinddj]

Aaron,

Using Aspire to do what you want is the perfect way to learn how to use both the bot and Aspire. I do most of my drafting and all my toolpathing on Aspire. To resize a part is simple, under edit objects, pic the second icon ( a square that has an arrow pointing to the corner) and a pop up dialog will appear. If you want to resize the part in porportion just enter the size in x or y and the program will do the rest. If you want to resize the x and y differently uncheck link x and y and give each dimension.

You will break bits, you will ruin material, you will have fun and eventually realize that you aren't breaking (as many) bits or ruining (as much) material. If you have specific questions, there are a lot of people on this forum who would be happy to help.

David

[Chuck Keysor]

Hello Aaron. I too have Aspire. It is of course great for designing and tool-pathing single components. But designing a single part is of course not the same as being able to design an object made up of several components. A different means is required to design multiple parts so that they all can interconnect. Having the ability to design a larger system of inter-connected parts, and then the ability to design and tool-path individual parts should seem to be a very desirable objective for anyone doing CNC work.

And if your box is simple, you should be able to design the 6 panels by hand on graph paper. But with limited brain power such as I have, using paper is not going to be very powerful. So Maybe 10 or 12 years ago, I got Design CAD and liked it a lot. Maybe I have version 14. It was very low cost, and I really liked it. But as I recall they got bought by TurboCAD, and the first upgrade I bought after that, I didn't like, so I just kept using my older version.

Maybe 5 years ago, when I first decided to buy a Shopbot, I had checked around and decided I wanted 3D modeling capabilities, and so I bought Rhino 3. I didn't like it as much as my Design CAD, but Rhino did some neat things, but 2D design didn't seem to be their objective. Well, they came out with Rhino 4 that was redesigned to be better at 2D work, (plus lots else). So I bought that, but it was more complicated, and the documentation left me confused and scratching my head, and it just sat, unused.

Well, I knew I needed to be able to do 3D modeling, and I read that that a new version of Rhino, Rhino 5, was due out early this year. So, I bought that, and decided to try harder with this version. It seemed pretty impressive, but again, to me the interface beyond the most simple operations was not intuitive, and the documentation seemed confusing. But after a week of messing with Rhino 5, I learned that a company called Infinite Skills sells a set of training videos for Rhino 5. I realized I needed HELP, so I spent about $150 for about 30 hours of training videos. The videos are a GODSEND to people like myself who want something to guide them to get started!

So, IF you really want to rev up your design power (having no idea what you want to do beyond making a box, which may be designed with pencil and paper), I would say that getting Rhino 5, and learning how to use it, and then coupling that with the power of Aspire to make individual parts, would be a powerful set of tools. And if Rhino is more than you want, check and see if Design CAD is still available. That was cheap, easy to learn and very effective for 2D design work. (At least that is true of my OLD Design CAD.)

Chuck
PS: The Infinite Skills videos are actually DVDs, so you own them and can watch them as many times as you want, like the Aspire training videos. I wanted to mention that, because I have paid for on-line training for other software, that was on a subscription basis, and I do NOT like those. So that was an important factor for me.

[myxpykalix]

Aaron,
Here is a simple way to make a box that even a newbie can do in less then a few minutes. Here is some pictures of the last box i made along with a sample of what you will be making. Here is a simple boxjoint design box. I went and measured my microwave and made this box that size (the dxf)

The only thing i think you will have to do is go in to the design and in the corners of the cuts make dogbone fillets (i think your program does that).

Go to http://boxmaker.rahulbotics.com/ input the size box you want and thickness and it will make a pdf. Bring it in to your program make your fillets and cut it out.
If you don't want the top of the box to be boxjointed then you will have to figure out the top parts of the 4 sides and draw a straight line across and delete the boxjoints so that you have a flat top for a hinged lid.

If all of this takes you more then 10 minutes you MUST give up your shopbot!:rolleyes: if you need more help let me know...:D

ps this box made it all the way to Australia, so the joint works.

[adrianm]

Aaron, not sure what you mean about being more precise in your measurements.

In Aspire you can enter the exact dimensions for any vector down to a level that is far more accurate than your ShopBot is capable of cutting.

Sometimes people don't realise they can do that and think everything has to be done with the mouse. That may not be what you meant but I thought I should mention it just in case.

Personally I stopped using other tools once I got to grips with Aspire's drawing tools but a lot does depend on how your mind works.

If you're someone like me who can visualise 2D line drawings as 3D models then it's all you need. If you need to see the 3D in reality then Sketchup is easy to learn and works well for translating 2D into 3D.

[Joe Porter]

Aaron, I agree with Adrian about Aspire and Sketchup, which I'm sure you know is a free program. Between the two, you hardly ever hear about people talking about other desin programs except maybe Rhino. As far as woodworking design as a whole piece (complete box, cabinet, table, etc.) Sketchup is a good choice. Bob Lang, readwatchdo.com, is a woodworker who has written some good training tutorials and books for furniture design, especially joinery using Sketchup which can be converted to DXF and imported to Aspire/PartWorks, and cut on the 'Bot. I have had great success with this combination and no one here is more backwards than me when it comes to computers and programs, as most people around here have figured out by now.....Anyway, good luck, it sounds like you are off to a good start. joe

[shilala]

Aaron, I use Aspire to make furniture from scratch, which is basically a bunch of boxes.
I create the panels in Aspire. I draw my schematics in Aspire. It's WAY easier than drawing stuff on paper.
I use a lot of biscuit joinery and finger joinery that I don't do on the bot. That's only because it's "the way I've always done it". In time I'll use the bot to do my joinery as well. I just need time to play with it.
I'll attach a schematic of a dresser I'm doing now. You'll see how it's built with rectangles, and you can highlight any part, then go to the "draw rectangle" or "set selected object's size" function to see the dimensions.

I believe Aspire 4 will have a "dimensions notation" layer. Then I can print the plans with dimensions and lay them around for quick reference.

[jTr]

Sketchup.
Free.
Learn to make furniture @ Fine Woodworking.com - look for blog lessons.
Free.
Screen shots attached.

I intend to write a web column or two on Sketchup and the Shopbot. Currently outlining my processes for using Sketchup from drafting CAD renderings to present to clients and ultimately converting to part files for my shopbot. You are in same shoes I was in a year ago with my new machine, and you are who I'm trying to help by condensing what has taken me a year to congeal with plenty of help from others here.

jeff

[CNYDWW]

I use sketchup professionally at work. We use it exclusively.

Regards.