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View Full Version : V Bit Vs Engraving Bit Problem



Chuck Keysor
02-17-2013, 12:19 AM
Hello Shopbot Community. Can anyone give me some suggestions as to what is going wrong with the carvings that are shown in the attached pictures? The cuts I got with a CMT "Laser" V bit were very good. I had used the CMT bit for many hours before running this test.

The cuts I got with a Precision Bits 60 degree engraving bit were not good at all. The Precision Bit had never been used before. The attached photos should make the comparison and my situation clear.

Also, I am not blaming the bit for my problem. I am assuming I have messed something up, but I don't know what.

I bought a brand new collet from Shopbot before I ran this test on the Precision Bit. I ran the two test tiles one right after the other.

I programmed the CMT bit as a V-bit in Aspire, and the results were quite consistant with what I have had for the last year, quite good. (The second CMT test cut, was done using "depth of cut" limiting in Aspire. That result, as I have had before, wasn't so good, but I did that one test for documentation only.)

The first Precision Bit cut was programmed in Aspire to be a regular 60 degree V bit, and I did normal V carving. The resulting grooves were really wide, even though the tip of the bit was clearly sharp enough to have made lines as fine as I had asked for in my Aspire design, and had gotten with the CMT bit.

The second Precision Bit was programmed in Aspire as an engraving bit, with a .005" flat on the end of the tip. The results were no different from the first Precision Bit test, at least by checking by eye.


Background: I get great final results by using a CMT "laser" 60 degree bit carving in Vinyl Composite Tile (1 foot square kitchen floor tiles). They have no grain, lay dead flat, very uniform in thickness and hold great detail. BUT, the grooves, after cutting, are totally plugged with gunk, not remeltd really, but gunk. Re-routing does almost nothing to remove this gunk. It won't brush out. I must carefully scrape it out with an Xacto knife, which takes as long as the carving (which I do at 1 to 1 1/2 IPS). This is mind numbing work that I can no longer stand. Since the CMT laser bits don't have any spiral to help clean out the grooves, I looked for a bit with a spiraled flute, and found the Precision Bit EM2E8-0625-60VC, 60 degree engraving bit with a .005" tip flat.

The first two shots simply show the fully cut test tiles. In the second picture, I physically laid the two tiles next to each other to show the dramatically different results I got between the two bits. The top CMT cuts are amazingly crisp. In the third picture, I am making a direct comparison of the details of the bird carvings, again the CMT results are excellent.

Any suggestions? Thanks, Chuck

steve_g
02-17-2013, 12:33 AM
Chuck...

It sure looks like your Precision bit isn't coming to a true point... Even if it appears to be a point, the tip may be tracking in a slight circle rather than just staying dead center. My experience is that for fine detailed carving you can't beat the CMT laser point!

Now on to your other problem... have you experimented with different speeds? both router RPM and X/Y IMS? Have you seen if conventional or climb cutting works better?... just some ideas.

SG

Chuck Keysor
02-17-2013, 09:23 AM
Hello Steve. Thanks for your thoughts on this matter. As to cutting speeds, I have run my spindle down to 5,000rpm and up to 12,000 rpm when cutting the vinyl tiles, and not seen any change in the groove packing issue. And this is TRULY a real problem because it is such tedious work. On my 1 foot square owl plaque (I have posted the image in the past), I spend between 3 and 4 hours of hand cleaning of the grooves.

On very fine work I run at 1 to 2 inches/second. When cutting larger letters, like 1 inch in height, that are deeper, at 3 inches/second I start to see chatter.

As to climb vs conventional cutting, that doesn't show as an Aspire option in V-carving, except for doing area clearance, which I don't normally use.

Thanks, Chuck

steve_g
02-17-2013, 11:34 AM
Chuck...

You're right, climb vs. conventional is not an option when V-carving. Have you tried linoleum blocks for this operation? I know they will be more expensive than the VCT tile... but maybe not with all the time you're spending on it. I'm just guessing now... perhaps make a bit definition that gives a very shallow step down and see if there's less balling up of the vinyl that way. When you figure it out, let us know!

SG

bob_reda
02-17-2013, 01:34 PM
I am assuming gumming up is a form of melting just because its not in that state when you started.. that being said you could possibly run air and have cool air blowing over the carving while it is being carved to help prevent the melting. Another thing to look at is that Centurion tools have a v bit for colorcore that has a wedge taken out the side for preventing something similiar to what you are experiencing , however with colorcore, you may want to look into that.

Bob

GlenP
02-19-2013, 06:49 AM
Hey Chuck. I am the Canadian Distributor for Precise Bits. If you want email me your file and the exact bit part number and I will take a look or test run it here on our cnc as well. I am on my cell so the pics are not big enough for me to see the issue. My email is in my profile.
Cheers,

Chuck Keysor
02-19-2013, 10:01 AM
Thanks Glen. I couldn't find your email address in your profile. But I did use the email message ap to send you my email address. Just in case there is a problem there, my email address is: chuck.keysor@sbcglobal.net I greatly appreciate your investigating this! Thanks, Chuck