HSD wiring

[cookie]

I have everything wired and running except the fan on top of the spindle which is 24v and do not know where the wire goes. I have a prt alpha and the the control box was not wired for the spindle. I have bypassed wiring the spindle into the control box. Help?

[Brady Watson]

Bruce,
If I am not mistaken, the fan gets wired to the VFD & the wires should be in the same bundle as the main line going out from the VFD to the spindle.

-B

[hespj]

I just recieved an HSD spindle on Thursday. Not wired it up yet, but I see the wire from the fan goes to a 24v power supply which is designed to fit inside the control box. Did you not recieve this power supply?

[benchmark]

Hi John

Which model did you get 2.25 or 4HP... single or 3 Phase?

Please keep us updated.

Paul

[cookie]

I have 2.25 hp model single phase. There is no 24v supply in the box according to a picture that Frank sent me. The picture shows a power supply just below the on off switch in the control box and I do not have this. Isn't the spindle and vfd able to run separately from the control box?

Bruce

[richards]

Bruce,

If your VFD is not connected to your Shopbot, you will have to add a 24VDC power supply on your own. Be sure to get a 24VDC power supply that can run off the power furnished to the VFD. In my case, I have 220 single-phase feeding my Delta VFD, which drives my 3hp Colombo. If I were adding a 24VDC power supply to the system, I would connect the 120AC side of the 24VDC supply from one leg of the 220AC line that feeds the VFD. That way, whenever the VFD is powered up, the 24VDC will also be powered up and the cooling fan will be spinning.

[hespj]

Paul, I got a 2.25HP single phase. I was warned that it wouldn't reach 2.25HP on a UK supply. Now that I've got it I think that this is because the spindle will only reach 15,000rpm as opposed to the 18,000rpm it'll reach in the States. (50Hz Uk supply vs 60Hz USA supply.)I'll let you know how it works out in practice. I think the lowish power will be okay, but I'm a bit concerned about such low revs.

Bruce, I don't know if you've just bought a ShopBot plus spindle, or just a spindle. I just bought a spindle. Luckily ShopBot were aware of my setup and phoned me advising me that I would need a 24v supply for the spindle fan.I got the impression that any 24v supply would do (given enough amps) but decided to go with the ShopBot power supply for convenience. I guess a new ShopBot set up for a spindle would have a 24v power supply installed in the control box (as you saw in the picture).

I've installed my spindle seperate from the control box. The 24v fan power supply just happens to be in the control box. All this means is that the fan turns on/off when the control box is turned on/off. It might be better to have a 24v fan power supply wired to the same supply as the vfd so that the fan turns on/off when you turn the vfd on/off. With my setup I'll have to be careful not to turn the control box off before the spindle (leaving the spindle rotating with no fan).

Again, my spindle is for the second Z axis, so even when I'm not using the spindle/second Z the spindle fan will be running.

[richards]

John,
My 3hp Colombo is configured to give full power between 12,000 and 18,000 RPM. You might be able to program your VFD to do the same. With the kind of materials that I cut, I rarely run the spindle faster than 15,000 RPM. Going faster than that gives me too little chipload and I burn up cutters.

[hespj]

"You might be able to program your VFD to do the same."

Mike, I'll certainly look into this. I think I'll be okay with the lowish revs too - I find I'm increasingly using quite large dia bits (which need to run slower).

[cookie]

Thanks for all the info. A 24v supply from shopbot works wonders. I'm up and running with the new spindle.

Bruce

[hespj]

"Please keep us updated.".......Paul

Well it's three weeks since I got my spindle and yesterday was the first day I was able to do any proper cutting with it. All the hassle was worth it when I saw the SB cutting two IDENTICAL (yes, caps) 3D parts at once. Beautiful.

So what was the hassle? I installed the second Z axis a few months ago for a job cutting 192 3D shapes (16 different shapes x 12no, approx one hour each to cut). I was going to install another router on this second Z, and actually bought one (actually two, the first wasn't suitable) but didn't fit it. Then the job got postponed and I got busy with other things.

When the job reappeared suddenly and urgently, I made up my mind to fit a spindle instead of a router. ShopBot despatched one to me, but the courier couldn't find me and made no attempt to contact me. When I checked order tracking it said the item had been returned to the USA !! I emailed ShopBot and Jamie immediately sorted it out. I wish I could do things like that, but I'm English.

The spindle was easy to install and worked straight out of the box. Sorting out dust extraction was the usual problem. I had to move the table to give enough clearance at one end, and the routing of the tubes is the usual compromise which I'm not happy about. Fitting the spindle took hours; sorting the dust extraction days.

Before cutting anything I found that if I assigned both Z axis's to Z, I could make them move in sync, but the new axis jogged further than the original. This is because the new Z motor has a gearbox whilst the original doesn't. Any Z jog in a file would put them out of sync. I did edit a file to contain no jogs and tried the tandem setup out.

The moment of truth saw the SB cutting two identical parts which was wonderful to behold. Unfortunatley, it was obvious that they weren't identical, one piece had different Z dimensions to the other - 39mm instead of 41mm (1.61" - 1.54").

ShopBot were excellent help on both problems, although it naturally took a few days, especially with the Thanksgiving holiday which I had forgotten about. Bill Young wrote a program to make axis B (my second Z) move with axis Z. Simple and effective.

The second problem took a bit longer to sort out, but in the end Frank thought it was a rack/pinion problem. Examination of the rack showed some bent teeth, and removal of the motor showed a bent shaft (bent as much as 2mm or 1/16"). I was very suprised at this as the shaft is quite thick (say 9mm - 3/8"?) and only protrudes say 18mm (3/4"). Neither ShopBot or I could see how I could have done this, especially as I'd only used this Z axis once. ShopBot replaced the motor, rack and pinion immediately the problem was identified.

ShopBot were brilliant at sorting my problems out, especially as my unanswered emails were getting more irate over the Thanksgiving weekend. I felt so guilty when I found out it was Thanksgiving - these guys deserve a holiday. Being self employed I'm never sure whether I never have holidays or whether I'm on holiday all the time, but one tends to forget about holidays.

The second Z is brilliant. If you like watching your ShopBot make money for you, you'll love watching it make money twice as fast.

The spindle is good too. It's benefit is not as obvious as the second Z, but watching the spindle cutting next to the router you are left in no doubt as to which is 'best'. I'll be replacing the router with another spindle at some time.

John

[jdw]

John and any others who have 2 z's....What are you running (PRT, Alpha)...how did you modify Y carrige if any? What is the center to center spacing of your two cutter's...any pics?? I have a PRT and also have a second Z laying on shelf but it looks as though some significant modification will be required in order to fit two router's (spindle's). Unless spaced well apart it looks like you'd be limitted to rather small parts to accomplish what your doing??? If spaced far apart(widen the Y carrige in x direction) you thereby limit your effective table size, no??? I'm just flushing this out...what am I missing?
Thanks for any help!

[harryball]

Jon, I don't think your machine will ever work with 2 Z's... so just pack it up and send it to me, I'll take good care of it. :-)

I'm running an Alpha and it was the show machine at the IWF. It had 2 Z's on it during the show. The Z closest to the Y motor was left on. The second Z was bolted opposite my current Z. There were two HSD spindles on it and there was plenty of room to run them both.

So far as the table, my current Z lacked about 1/2" being able to travel to 97" with the original setup. I moved my table top back about 3/4" and it's fine now. When I can afford to put the 2nd Z back it will still reach the entire table as well.

Robert

[hespj]

Jon
I have an Alpha. I think it's 6" between centres but haven't checked exactly yet. If one has to machine the sides of a part this might limit part width to 5" or so.

ShopBot did have a pdf download re 2nd Z axis here (at bottom of page):

http://www.shopbottools.com/documentation.htm

but it doesn't seem available now. I could email it to you. It shows twin Z's on a PRT I think.

The second Z certainly fills the dust extractor up quick :-)

John

[hespj]

I was a little worried when I ordered the 2.25HP HSD spindle that it wouldn't be powerful enough, especially as SB told me it wouldn't even produce that on our UK 50Hz supply. I've mounted it on a second Z axis with my original 1900w (2.5HP) router on the original Z axis. The spindle copes with everything I've tried it on (mostly 3D stuff) much better than the (allegedly) more powerful router. I've been able to slow the revs down on the spindle and get much better tool life. Slowing the router down to anywhere near this optimum speed doesn't work - the router looses to much power.

The job I just finished used 20no 19mm (3/4") rnd-nose bits. Most of those were bluntened on the router which was running to fast. At $55 a shot this is worth considering. The next sizable job might well see me purchasing a second spindle.

Oh, and the noise level is bliss.

I described above how I had a bent shaft on the nex Z axis and ShopBot's speedy response and fix - they sent me a new motor free of charge. Just for the record, I've now recieved bills from the courier for $400 for shipping this from ShopBot to the UK.

I think this is fair enough; but for SB's speedy response I could have lost more than this in delays. Also, because I don't know when this shaft got bent, I don't know that it wasn't me. I strongly suspect (97%) it got bent sometime between getting manufactured and shipped to me, but I'm open minded enough to realise that I could have bent it without knowing. Although how I could bend such a hefty shaft without knowing........

All in all, very pleased with the new setup, and worth the unexpected extra $400.

John