Indexer attachment

[MogulTx]

Guys,

I have gotten the Rikon and an expension kit, the motor and driver from SHopBot ( about $1K for an alpha set up! OUCH!) and have got it set up in the control box (THANKS in large part to Frank! Thank you sir!)

I need to swap it over to degrees, I think.

After that, I am ready to start looking at a project.

What I need from you guys:
(1) A link to how to set up an indexer file.
(2) To know what to call this type of device AND how to interface it to a lathe. I am not standing in front of the new Rikon and have not used a lathe before- so I needa small kick start in the right direction. ( I will send an email to Wayne L. He showed us this device at the Camp ShopBot at his place. It replaces a spur- but I just failed to jot down the proper name for it.)

Thanks,

M

[MogulTx]

Wow! Wayne already responded that it is a Legacy Mounting plate. I need to go check with legacy and see if I can set up my lathe with this, and see about a 4 jaw chuck, apparently...


...Working in it!

[myxpykalix]

To change your inches to degrees you need to do a

VD
go down to "Units type B Axis" or (Units type A Axis if using A)
then down down the dropdown menu and hilite "2 Rotary-degrees"
those little squares are "index hubs" I use them
http://legacywoodworking.com/products.cfm?product=78

Why contact Legacy?

I couldn't find my pics but here is a link to some of them that shows how i use my index hubs. I use a 4 jaw chuck and it basically self centers itself when you insert them into the chuck
http://www.humblesticks.com/cnc-rotary-tutorial.html

[Brady Watson]

Monty,
Check your PM.

-B

[MogulTx]

Guys;
I am still struggling with a couple things, but I think I just about have it now. If I can get myself to see hoe to draw out what I want, I will be doing excellent. I need to go back to the vectric site and dig through the tutorials. I saw one online from some guy named mypyxalix or something like that- that looked really helpful! (:)- (Jack, I may be hitting you up at some point here!)

Interesting stuff, that is for sure! A brain teaser wrapped up in an equipment buy and a whole lot of new stuff to absorb! I like a challenge!

[Brady Watson]

It is very easy. Draw an OPEN vector profile in PartWorks and toolpath it. Type in the TI command and pick the option that lets you turn a profile. You MUST use the SB Inch post processor (no arcs...check code and makes sure there are no CG commands). That should get you going...now get your learn on :D

-B

[myxpykalix]

I saw one online from some guy named mypyxalix or something like that-

Yeah, i know that guy...he is one of the smartest guys I know, also fairly good looking (for a dude), and a real humble guy....:eek:

Just let me know what you need in the way of help and i'll pass that on to him and i'm sure he'll help you all he can....:D

[MogulTx]

OK. Mounted the indexer today. Ran the X over to it a couple times.... got the heebee jeebies working right at the end of the machine! Oh well. I am sure I will get over that!

I see that I am going to need to machine a fairly accurate 6" block for zeroing.... Rikon people: When you have materials in your lathe/indexer- where do you zero to? Top of your jaw chuck? There isn't really a flat spot to work to, that I can see... your suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I need to put a pair of stabilizing supports under the front of my set up. It is not solid enough to suit me. (tomorrow. It is late!)

I have a test peice of lumber that I need to slice down tomorrow and get prepped to go into the indexer. I have two little things I still need to program before I am ready to run a sample.... and then all the gooof ups that I am sure I will do before I get this down--- but am looking forward to trying SOMETHING tomorrow. At least I think I will be able to round some cedar 4 x 4's and then maybe try my shaping file.... then the carving... :D.

We'll see. Everything else I have done takes more time and more thought than I figured at the outset of the project. I am sure this will be no different!

Night all

MGM

[myxpykalix]

A couple things to be aware of before you try your first piece. Look at this pic. The fig on the left is an example of the bit cutting .25 deep. The fig on the right is where when your piece turns a 1/4 turn you'll notice that the bit is now cutting at least .5" deep and you will be taking too big of a bite and probably ruin your piece.

You need to cut the sharp edges off your material to keep that from happening.
The other pic is the dimple in the middle of the shaft from the indexer which is where your bit should be Zzeroed to (the center of your material).

I made a simple jig out of a 2"x6" by measuring where the dimple in the center is and then cutting the board to that height. Now when i want to center to the middle of the material I pull that out, put my plate on it and Zero.

[MogulTx]

Jack. I got that on the zero. That's exactly what I was thinking of to make a separate zero point when there is no material in place. What if I can't get that onto the bed of the machine? What is my stock is blocking that? I haven't run anything and maybe my concern is unwarranted...

I DO have one concern. And I THINK I now see how to address it... tell me if I am right, please. I have my design. But my design is a full thickness revolution. If I cut to the actual design, I will be cutting my material free of the indexer, right? ( Design goes all the way to the centerline).... Do you just go modify your designs so that they are short by 1/4", and you wind up cutting off a 1/2" thick (if it is milled 1/4" short on both sides of the centerline, it SHOULD leave a 1/2" thick stub, right?) And: Is that enough in a slow turn situation with little material being taken off?)

And then, to address the difference in thickness from the flat to the corner, I just need to run a rounding program, before runniong the real job, and it should all be OK, right?

Gotta look over my project and go to the hardware store for my next few bits and pieces. ALmost there!

(And thank you for your assistance!)

[myxpykalix]

Regarding material length, if i am designing something 12" long then i leave myself at least 1" at the top and bottom and set your start point at that 1" from your chuck so as to preclude any bit hitting anything.

Once you do that you will always have enough material to hold your stock. You might want to post a picture of what you are trying to make so i can better understand what you are doing.
Your design should NOT go all the way to centerline, without adequate support it will just break.
On most carving designs your depth of cut is usually the same as if you were carving something flat on your table. The only time you will cut way below the surface is if you are making something like tenons on the ends of your material like for balusters.
You would then want to look into some type of "thin stock support" and when you need advice i have a nifty gadget you can use ( a kids skate). see pic

Do you just go modify your designs so that they are short by 1/4", and you wind up cutting off a 1/2" thick (if it is milled 1/4" short on both sides of the centerline, it SHOULD leave a 1/2" thick stub, right?) And: Is that enough in a slow turn situation with little material being taken off?)

Now ask yourself, if i'm not making this (.5" stub) part of the design of the part, like a tenon, then why cut it down to .5" in the fist place? Just take your part over and cut your ends off at the bandsaw or tablesaw but leave them big and you have no concerns about breakage.
The problem you have is both downward pressure from the bit and lateral pressure from the tailstock pushing the material to hold it tight will allow it to break.

What if I can't get that onto the bed of the machine? What is my stock is blocking that?

The wooden jig that i made is the height from the bed of the aluminum plate to the centerline of the shaft on my indexer. I can usually turn the jig longwise (in the X) even with 3"-4" stock in the chuck and still get a Zzero.

If not then move your indexer down the aluminum rail to give yourself about an 1 to 1.5" behind the back of the indexer and you can use that space to Z to even with material chucked up (I forget to Zzero many times till AFTER i have material in chuck).

The drawback is you lose that 1.5" in length of stock you can use in your Y direction.

[MogulTx]

OK... after a few hours of being frustrated, I realized that the info that Randall Newcomb put out- with a lot of Jack and other people's info on it- did not specifically call out /discuss/ make abundantly clear to the folks who are "indexer challenged" like me... ( at least it wasn't so glaring to me that it registered with this particular stupid twit ) a note regarding using the INDEXER POST PROCESSOR!!!! It just didn't occur to me! Wow! How was the machine going to know that I had swapped from programming for 3 axes and had gone to using a fourth??? SHeesh!

Anyway, I was getting movement in my X travel and hitting my limit switch- which was confusing the **** out of me. I checked the file, and all the activity was in the X direction.... and I thought to myself, "Surely I did a 3D Wrapped file! I followed the instructions so closely! This should not have X travel at all, and I don't see ANY B travel... What the heck?" I started looking around and , in a communication from Frank at Shopbot there was a casual mention of the ShopBot INDEXER post processor...! DOH! I am SO like Homer Simpson today! This was a bit of a critical nugget of information for a dummy like me.

OK SO, I am beyond that, now ( and have 20 iterations of files that are now basically useless!) Now I have found one more issue.... I need to know what to set the constant for in my B value. I have a 20 tooth pulley driving a 72 tooth pulley on an Alpha machine ( which I presume to be 7.2 to one, EXCEPT on the indexer which I believe is a direct drive)... so how does one figure out what value to input? I can wait until tomorrow, because I am just about brain dead at this point---- but I'd like to move forward if I can... I will send frank a message now and see if I get a response. Any help you guys can offer would be greatly appreciated.

Currently, if I use "JB 180" the machine turns about (ROUGH guess here) 35-40 degrees. I am about to go try to measure it a little more closely, then I am going to mark the center of my 4 x4 in the indexer and try to get better data. Then I will increase the number for the unit value and see if it improves or decreases travel... then I will adjust from there... Anybody with input, please feel free to jump in here!

Thanks so much.

MGM

[myxpykalix]

just go back and load your file back up and REsave it using your indexer PP and overwrite the old file and you should be ok.

[MogulTx]

OK. OK. I made an error. I use the Jog commands all the time. SO, when I was seeing what I needed to have for settings, I checked by using the jog command.... I should have used the Move command and set my numbers based off that, then used the multiplier to correct for the jog command.

Once I reset these values, it started behaving itself! Now I need to cure the jitters in the support and start testing...

Wooo Hoooo!