Nesting: Multiplies vectors only?

[Chuck Keysor]

Hello Shopbot Friends and Neighbors:

I need to cut multiple parts of the design you can see in the attachment. While I didn't see any evidence of this from the training videos I have watched, is it possible to have the "Nesting" function multiply the tool paths I have already created, as well as the two reference vectors?

It is nice to multiply all the vectors, but it seems like a rather needless, and tedious process to have to go and select each vector, and generate all the tool paths for all of the vector copies. I don't want to sound lazy, but there are lots of tool paths required in these simple brackets.

Any comments are welcome. And if I must do the tool path creation for each copy manually, I won't feel so bad doing this, IF I know there isn't an easy way to do this.

Thank you all so much, Chuck

[jerry_stanek]

No once you make a tool path that is were it will cut and only there. You would need to nest first then select all the same parts and create your tool path

[adrianm]

Look at the videos for toolpath templates. That's how you do it and means you can create all the toolpaths in a nest with one click no matter how many there are.

D05 here - http://support.vectric.com/tut-aspire-2d-25d-techniques

Also there is a description of how I do it along with other tutorials here - http://www.vectric.com/cool-stuff/case-studies/aspire/2012/production-routing.html

[jerry_stanek]

He is making a vector and then creating a tool path then trying to nest multiple objects of that one. You can not do that. You have to create all the vectors first then nest them then make your tool path. I do this all the time.

[donek]

He is making a vector and then creating a tool path then trying to nest multiple objects of that one. You can not do that. You have to create all the vectors first then nest them then make your tool path. I do this all the time.

Actually you can if you first put the associated vector on it's own layer. You then use the selector (bottom of your toolpath window). Use the options to select the appropriate vector layers for that toolpath. Be sure to check "associate with toolpath". You can then nest as many copies as you like (be sure not to paste them into a different layer). It's best to use the array feature. When you recalculate your tool path, you should get tool paths for each copy. There are videos available on this subject on youtube and the vectric web site, but the above should cover the use of this feature.

[adrianm]

He is making a vector and then creating a tool path then trying to nest multiple objects of that one. You can not do that. You have to create all the vectors first then nest them then make your tool path. I do this all the time.

Watch the videos and read the articles posted. It's something I do several times a day and is a very powerful feature. Create one item and all the toolpaths to go with it. Do the nest and click the recalculate button and you have all the toolpaths for that sheet created in one go.

[Chuck Keysor]

Adrian, thank you very much for your valuable information. I had not watched the making cabinet training video, since I don't make cabinets. Hence, I missed the important concept of toolpath templates. However, even if I would have watched it, I am not sure I would have made the connection back to my need.

So, I read your article from the Vectric newsletter, and I have watched the video. A few points seem a bit hazy to me, or perhaps a bit odd. But after I actually try and apply this concept to my example, I will either have answered my own questions, or be better prepared to clearly articulate my issues.

As it is getting later than I want to start up this new exercise, I'll put it off until the morning.

Thank you again for your great information, Chuck!

PS: As this seems like a rather important concept, and one which seems a bit more abstract than most concepts presented in the Vectric training videos, it may be of great value to make a dedicated video that simply focuses on this key concept. There may be many people out there who like myself, may have skipped the making cabinets video, or if they watched it, may not have grasped its broader significance.

PPS: If anyone has a link to a You Tube training video that focuses on the concept of toolpath templates, would you be so kind as to share the link here? Thanks again, Chuck

[adrianm]

At the bottom of the newsletter article there is an Aspire 3.5 video that covers toolpath templates. The screens are slightly different in Aspire 4 but the concepts are identical.

I'm not aware of a VCarve 7/Aspire 4 video dedicated to toolpath templates.

[Chuck Keysor]

Hello Adrian. I watched the videos you suggested and read your Aspire article. Then I attempted to create copies of my design vectors and then use the "Toolpath Template" function, combined with the "Recalculate All Toolpaths" function to speed the creation of the toolpaths for my arches. (This will be very useful, as I have to make over 30 arches, and have many sizes of stock that I will be using.)

So far, I have not succeeded in fully multiplying my vectors AND their associated toolpaths. I have attached some screen shots.

I started all over by redrawing my arch, all on one layer. Then I cut the arch in half (two symmetric parts). I then copied each vector onto its own layer, giving each layer a name that goes with the intended toolpath function of each vector.

After I had created all the required layers, I created the corresponding toolpath for each layer. I made each tool path name match the layer name by copying each one, and in the Vector Selection menu, I chose "Selector", then made the appropriate choice of open or closed vector, checked selected vectors only and selected the desired layer name. Then I checked the "Associate with toolpath" box.

After I did all of that for each layer, I did a simulation, and everything looked perfect. Then I created a "Toolpath Template".

Then I selected and copied both halves of my arch and pasted that into a new Aspire file which had stock sized to match material I will actually cut. When I did the paste, it was clear that all the vectors had been merged onto a single layer. With the vectors selected, I opened the toolpath template I had created above. That opened a dialog box asking me if I wanted to recreate the missing layers. I checked yes, and the layers appeared, but they were empty. Then I selected the "Recalculate All Toolpaths" function, and it noted that there were problems with all my layers, (because they were empty).

This is where I am stuck. Certainly there is a simple action I have failed to stumble on.....

AFTER I hopefully get past this point, I will then fill the entire piece of stock with added copies of my arch vectors, and will then attempt to create the added toolpaths for those as well, so that I can then carve the entire piece of stock.

Thanks for any guidance you can provide, Chuck

[donek]

Your problem occurred when you created a new file and pasted the vectors into it. You can either save the file with a new name and change the dimensions of your work piece, or create a new file and import the vectors from the aspire/vcarve file.

[Chuck Keysor]

Hello Sean! Thank you for your suggestion. Clearly your tip was right on, and I was able to move ahead ONE step, before being caught in yet another issue. Please check out the two screen shots.

I opened the original two arch file with its good toolpaths. I then made a larger material size, and made copies of the vectors, and saved the file under a new name.

With all vectors highlighted, I deleted the visible toolpaths, then opened and applied the toolpath template and recalculated all toolpaths, and got an OK message. But most of the toolpaths failed to be recreated (as shown in the second attachment). And a cove tool path is even in the wrong place.

My first guess was that I had messed up the toolpath template. But I went back and recreated it several times, each time making sure all the toolpaths were visible before applying the "Save all visible Toolpaths as a template". My second guess was that I should engage in some random thrashing, hoping to stumble onto something that worked... No luck.

I have yet again managed to mis-step and need help. Now what?

All suggestions are appreciated! Thanks, Chuck

[donek]

Paste is your enemy here. You have to use the array command.

Paste will put the new copy in only one layer, so your tool paths that are generated off the other layers will not find any vectors in those layers. Right click on a vector and see what layer it is in by using the move to vector option. You'll see all the vectors you pasted are in the active layer. The only way I know to copy and retain the layer information is with the array command.

[Chuck Keysor]

Thanks Sean! I'll try out the array command....... Hopefully this will be my last mistake in this little part of my project!!!! Thanks, Chuck!!!

[Chuck Keysor]

Thanks Sean! Your answer to my problem was correct. I'll have to write some notes, so that I don't forget that if I am going to design a part, and then make multiple copies from a single sheet, without manually reprogramming each duplicated part, that I can use the "Toolpath Template" command followed by the "Recalculate all visible toolpaths" command. And that:
a) I must keep the original vectors and layers when I move from the basic design to using stock that is of a different size. (IE: Don't copy and paste the original design vectors into a new layout, as that will leave lots of vital information behind.)
b) Don't copy and paste the toolpathed vector to populate the larger piece of stock. Layer information will be lost and the toolpathing will get messed up. Instead, to make multiple copies on a single layout, the Array command must be used. That will preserve all of the layer information.

Thanks, Chuck!

[ssflyer]

Damn Chuck,

Now I'll have to make yet another note, that I'll never be able to find! :D

[adrianm]

Chuck, when you copy and paste the vector(s) goes on to the layer which is active when you do the paste rather than the layer it comes from.

As a check you can look at the bottom right hand of the Aspire window and it will display the dimensions of the copied vector along with the layer it's currently on.

When copying vectors that are currently all on one layer the easiest thing is to make sure that the layer they're currently on is the active one.

You can right click on the vector and put it back onto the correct layer with shortcut Move to Layer menu item.

When copy/pasting vector selections that are on multiple layers a way around the issue is to use the copy mouse method. Copying that way creates the new vectors on the layers they come from rather than the active one.

Click on the vector you want to copy twice (the square handles should appear) and then click and hold the left mouse button while holding the Ctrl key on the keyboard. You can then drag and drop multiple copies of the vector by releasing and clicking the left mouse button. Don't release the Ctrl key until you've finished though.

I've got so used to doing this I no longer use the "traditional" copy and paste method at all.

Like Sean though I use the tools most of the time as they handle the spacing and layer issues all in one.

[Chuck Keysor]

Thank you Adrian for your nuanced reply. I needed to read it over a couple of times. The matter of moving vectors to the correct layers after a paste operation quickly made sense as I now understand what had gone wrong with my original copy and pastes.

As to the copy and paste with the mouse and control button, I had never heard of this Windows tool before, thus requiring a re-read or two. That is the type of trick that I am most apt to forget without repeated use or special effort!

As I mentioned before, and which now seems more important in light of these added issues I have so characteristically gotten ensnared by, it would seem beneficial to the Aspire community if Vectric could issue a Toolpath Template training video for version 4 that not only updates to the newer version, but touches on these subsequent subtle points that have engaged me for much of this thread. Those stumbling points were harder to get past than the grasping of the toolpath template concept.

Thank you again, Chuck

PS: This thread highlights the immense value of the Shopbot forum (or the Vectric forum had I been active there) in helping people to move past the point of confusion, and on to some degree of usable proficiency! Thank you again to all who have contributed!!!