120V or 220V

[jseiler@bluemarble.net]

I just got a quote on my shopbot 96. I didn't specify electrical, so the salesman quoted it for 220V control box. Is there any advantage to 110V 30A over 220V 15A? It will be placed in my garage near the breaker box. How does the 120V PC router connect if I take the 220V option or does that not matter?

Another question... When it arrives, how many people will it take to unload? I'm getting the steel table too.

One more question. Footprint. They quote 10' by 6'. Looking at the front (I'm taking that as the long side of the machine), how much additional space will I need to the left, right and back? The front will point toward the interior of garage so I should be good there.

JSeiler
-- closer than ever to being an owner.

[paco]

About the electrical setup; this topic already been covered lately... do just a quick search with "220 V" and you should find it fast... If I remember good, 220V is for Europe...

About unloading the shippment; prepare for long a crate... the table will be heavy... also depends on how you place your order to ShopBot... the shippment can be unload with a lift gate service... ask ShopBot about this... remember that nothing is free though... if you really plan on unloading the shippment by hand; prepare for a PARTY!!!

About the footprint; still depends on you but I can tell you that I deal OK with as small as 15' 6" X 10' 6" !!! Sure my desk is not there too!!! I use about 12' X 12' for office... I'm just starting my buisness in my basment. That allow me low starting investment...

[richards]

220-240 VAC in North America is really two 110-120 VAC lines. You can have the controller configured so that one 220-240 VAC line will supply all the voltages necessary for both the controller and the router. Internally, the 220-240 VAC line is split into two 110-120 VAC lines, thus providing the necessary voltage for your router.

I unloaded and unpacked my Alpha 120-60 with three people (steel table, carriage, rails, etc.), However, we unloaded each piece separately from the containers. The local freight company loaded the pallets into my little Chevy S-10 pickup. The pallet holding the rails were loaded so that they extended over the cab of the pickup. The controller and motors were shipped about a week later, but they were easily handled by one person.

I have my machine located with three feet clearance on two sides and open shop on two sides. It's a little tight for me, but it was the best compromise for the space available. Lifting the Y-axis back onto the X-axis requires some room. (I messed up again today when I defined the tool path for a clean-up pass. When you set the tool path to route at 12-ips, full depth, full bit width, instead of 0.025 inch trim cut, with a Porter-Cable router, something has to give. It usually is the Y-axis jumping off the X-axis. Lifting the Y-axis back into position requires one person on each end of the carriage, some room, and some muscle.)

Mike

[beacon14]

I may be mistaken, but I believe the 220V option is also 30 amps. This configuration requires 2 hot legs, a neutral, and a separate ground, because the 2 hot legs are split inside the control box into two 110V circuits, one for the ShopBot and one for the router. The router connects through the control box, so the software can turn the router on and off. Unless you can't get 220V power to the machine, I would go with this option.

For unloading, have you ordered the table assembled? If so, I would say minumum 4 people, 6 is better. If unassembled, it comes in multiple boxes, 2 or 3 people should be adequate, or just one if you can bribe the truck driver into helping (some will, some won't).

I have about 18" space between the "back" of the table and the wall (where I rarely have to go), and anything less would be too tight. More would be better, but I can work with 18". The same would go for one end, unless you want to be able to slide sheets in one end and out the other. The end that will be used for loading sheets needs plenty of room so you can, well, load sheets. (If you will only be milling small parts, and never full sheets, I suppose 18" to 24" would get you by, but sooner or later you will want to slide a 4x8 sheet in there.) In "front", as you refer to it, I would like to have at least 30" or 36", but more is better.

[jseiler@bluemarble.net]

No real advantage to spec'ing 110. Check.

I was expecting to be able to load 4x8 sheets from the front, but that's not right, I guess. Do I need a full 8+ feet on one end to load a full sheet? Holy cow.


If I'm looking at this correctly, down the x-axis, I'll need 8+ft of loading area to slide sheets in + 10ft of bot + 1.5 ft (if I only plan on loading from one side) = 19.5 ft. wow.

On the y axis, 1.5 ft behind, 6 ft of bot + 3 ft of operator area = 10.5 ft.

I might have to rethink how I'm going to place this monster in my garage. I was planning on loading from the "front", but if that's not possible (or really hard), I'm going to have to go back to the drawing board.

By the way, this forum is great. Thanks for all the responses.

JSeiler

[richards]

Loading the machine from the front is possible, but I normally load from the right end where I can slide the sheets onto the table with a minimum of lifting (100 lb sheets of partical board or MDF makes for a sore back at the end of the day).

The machine does take up a lot of room, more than I expected when I first started checking into using a Shopbot. My 120-60 machine takes roughly 90 sq feet (12 ft by 7.5 ft). Adding a three foot buffer on two sides increases that to about 158 square feet. A pile of sheet goods takes 32 square feet. And adding a minimum of two feet on three sides of that material really means that one stack of sheet goods needs about 80 square feet. Most of the time it takes less than ten minutes to route a sheet of material, much faster than I can normally handle the routed material. So, that means I have to have an area for the routed sheets, an area for cutting apart routed sheets, an area to stack finished goods and an area for all of the other things that have to take place in a shop.

If I were to stack the stuff a minimum of two feet away from the feed end of the Shopbot and space the stacks two feet apart, then each stack would be about 6x10 feet for 4x8 material. So four times 60 sq ft for the material equals 240 sq feet, plus 160 sq ft for the machine means that I've filled a 20x20 ft shop.

My little shop is 20x22 feet for everything, including a cabinet saw, a band saw, a dust collector, two stationary sanders, a drill press, a router table, a horizontal boring machine, and all of the other things that I need too often to leave in storage - which means that 440 sq ft is about 1,500 sq ft too small.

However, not having room is a price that I'm willing to pay while I build a business with my Shopbot. The machine does everything that I tell it to do, mistakes and all, all day long without complaint.

Mike

[beacon14]

Loading from the end is easy (as easy as sliding a 100 pound lump of sawdust and glue can be) as it is open and unencumbered by mechanical devices, steel rails, etc.
Loading from the front is possible, as Mike says, but it's a pain, as you have to lift or slide the sheet over the X-rails (without damaging them, of course), and the X-carriage will have to be positioned to one end of the machine, where it will still be in the way since it's close to 2 feet wide.
Some people have done creative things like slots in the wall to slide sheets through, or just put the machine next to the garage door (and pray for good weather)
If you just don't have the end clearance, consider making or buying one of those outfeed stands with a row of castors on it, and position it so it's just a little higher than the X-rails. That would make it easier to slide one end of the sheet over the X-rail, and pivot the sheet on the roller stand. Once one end of the sheet is on the table, you can lift the other end to position the sheet. It's still a pain, but I guess you can get used to anything if it's your best solution. You still probably need to figure at least 3 feet clear past the end of the table to position the sheet, since you have to offset the sheet to get it around the X carriage until it's over the X-rails.

I hope I'm making sense - it's been a long day.
Also, don't forget the space for whatever the computer, monitor and keyboard will sit on.

[gerald_d]

If we had to load over the x-rails, we would probably drop a bit of split PVC pipe over the rail first, for scuff protection of the board and the rail, and to make the board slide easily. You could even make a device with some rollers/castors to temporarily drop over the rail. If you have a half decent table, your x-rails should be able to take the weight. Oops this is an electrical thread - 120V or 220V.

[fleinbach]

I located my Prtalpha120 against a wall and under my stairs to the main shop above. With this arrangement you can only walk easily around 2 edges. The distance from the rear wall is just enough for the rear X carriage motor to not hit the wall, about 2". The X carriage motor when against the left end mechanical limit of the table misses my computer by 1". The Z motor carriage in the full up position just misses the bottom of the stairs stringer by 1". I used E-chain for my cables because my ceiling height is only 6'2" due to a storage rack above the machine. I load sheets from the front over the X rail. I have only 50" from the front of the bot to my MDF rack. The rack is 7' tall and has 6 bins to store various size sheets of MDF from 4' X 8' up to 5' X 12'. I also store up to 30 of the most common 4 X 8 sheets of MDF under the machine itself. I have loaded up to 5' X 10' sheets of 1" MDF by myself twice so far. They weigh 200 lb each. No I am not superman; it actually took about 10 minutes to get them there. Of course I load 4' X 8' myself all the time easily.

I just installed a hoist on an eight foot arm that swings from the sheet rack to over the table and have loaded one sheet so far just to see how it was working. It worked great. I was able to load the sheet in about 2 minutes. I have one more part to make before it is complete and that is the mechanism for grabbing the sheet. Total cost for parts was $120.00 and that included the 880 lb lift hoist from Harbor Freight

[garbob]

I have my 4 by 8 PRT96 in an 11 by 22 foot garage with a 9' door at the x 0 end. The other end had a man door swinging in. I changed the man door to swing out, gave myself 30" on that end and 24" on the back (y=48) wall. The other long wall has about 40" clearance for material standing on it's side (get thin walking there). Since there was absolutely no room for storage I built a rolling 55" by 10 foot rack under the table with 3 shelves on it for about 15 sheets of 4 by 8 material.

Unfortunately I put in an overhead garage door opener which stops me from easily installing a hoist. BUT even if I could install a hoist the ends would run into the carriage at the far end - it would have been a really, really good idea to have made the machine at least 1' longer. It's a pain having to wait for a body to show up before you can load a 4 by 8 sheet.

I have tried making several "one man loaders" but none of them work well, especially using double sided tape as a hold down.

When I install tons of t-track down the table I am going to build a system that raises tennis balls that are loose up above the table so I can roll the sheet in place, then hit a lever and lower them when not in use. This should work!

It's been an adventure!

Gary