3d carving bit input requested

[Chuck Keysor]

Hello Shopbot friends:

So far, I have only done 2 1/2D carving/machining. But I have some plans for "3D" carving, and I was wondering what people thought of the Amana bits 46280 and 46282. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B301UWI. These are solid carbide tapered ball nose endmills. They cost $42.96.

Though I listed the price, that is not my primary concern. I am mostly asking for guidance that these are good bits to get for starting.

Your comments are welcome, thanks, Chuck

[adrianm]

Go with these - http://beckwithdecor.com/index_files/Cutters.htm - lots of people on here (including me) have them and I've never heard a bad thing.

[blackhawk]

Chuck - I have used 1/8", and 1/4" bits from Centurion Tools and they work great. I also use a 1/16" tapered ball endmill from PreciseBits and it also works greats. I haven't used the Beckwith tools, but I have only heard good things about them.

[rcnewcomb]

Here is anther vote for the Beckwith bits -- absolutely top notch.

[roney c]

I recently purchased (4) 1/4" shank 1/8" tapered ball bits from these folks

http://www.obergbrothers.net/

in NJ and had them in NYC in less than 24 hrs. Have so far 3D cut 8 hard-ass Ash door panels each 18X40 and still on same bit. I think I paid about $35 ea. shipped regular ground but like I said I got them next day.

-r

[Brady Watson]

Yes, what Roney mentions is absolutely identical to the Onsrud 1/4" shank to 1/8" tapered ball that comes with the SB Starter kit, except it is 1/2 the price. If you hold them up side by side, you cannot tell the difference Customers are thrilled when I show them this at their shop.

About 95% of the 3D jobs that I run, get a roughing pass first with a square end mill. Except for a handful of jobs, I almost never reach for a tapered ball. They are very robust, but in many cases where crisp edge detail is important they can result in less than ideal results. If you just cut shallow 3D clipart, then a taper may be right for you.

My bread and butter 3D tools are straight shank ball end mills. They are high quality, cheap, and tougher than you would think when you get down to the smaller sizes like a solid carbide 1/16 or 1/8. You will save a lot of money in the long run by investing in fractional (or metric incremental) collets and end mills that match those sizes. If you don't have a spindle, no problem. Go get a Stubby Collet Chuck from Enco et al that will let you run odd size tools. If you are stuck in the 1/8, 1/4 and 1/2" 'is all there is for my router' paradigm, it can bring new possibilities that save you time. For instance, a 3/16 ball or even spiral-O is just the thing when a 1/4 is too coarse and an 1/8" is too short or delicate.

Pretty much all end mills come with the option to buy with a coating. Unless it is diamond and you are cutting material that needs it, don't waste your money. The bit will never get hot enough to take advantage of the coating & I've never gained anything from coated tools in terms of longevity in my shop. Save your cash and buy more tools! :D

-B

[Chuck Keysor]

Thanks everyone for your replies!

Roney, I looked at the Oberg website, and didn't see any part numbers..... Can you give me the part numbers for the bits you recommend? That would be helpful, and keep me from getting side-tracked into ordering something else.

Brady, I do have a spindle, with 1/2", 1/4" and 1/8" collets that I purchased from Shopbot. Knowing I want a basic starter assortment, so I can do reasonable experiments for basic 3D cutting, and figure out what I can actually do, look at what Roney recommends, and feel free to augment his recommendations, and I will buy the needed collets.

Thank you all again, Chuck!

[blackhawk]

I second Chuck's request on the Oberg part numbers. I called Oberg a few months ago and the guy that I talked to was less than helpful.

[roney c]

I usually just call and ask for Andy. Part #SHD32404
-r

[Chuck Keysor]

Thanks Roney. I hope that Brady will also be able to provide numbers.

This company had been recommended in the past, and maybe one year ago, I too called them looking to order various bits. But because I didn't know what bits I wanted exactly, I got no help, and ordered nothing. Instead, I ordered from on-line sources that allowed me to pick and choose.

So again, to order from this site does not seem to be for the beginner. That is why Brady's list of recommended part numbers for the beginning 3D carver would be really appreciated!

Thanks, Chuck

[Brady Watson]

Well...I just typed a book here and mistakenly closed the wrong tab :mad: I'm on the road working, so won't have time to make this 'list'.

Here's the deal - Oberg's (http://www.obergbrothers.net/) primarily deals with metalworking shops that know what they want. They sell ZERO router bits. They sell END MILLS. Straight or tapered (like the Onsrud 77-102), square (identical to 2-flute spiral 'upcut' bit) or ball (for 3D finishing).

You need to know 2 major things before you call, and only YOU can come up with what you need. (How would anyone but YOU know how long your tool needs to be? Choose the shortest length to get the job done.):

1) Cutter edge diameter (CED)
2) Length of Cut (LOC) - This can range from Standard @ 2X CED up to 15X(!) CED

Some of you may need to add more details like:

3) Overall Length of the tool (OAL)
4) Shank diameter (E.G.-SGS tapered ball end mill with 1/4" shank & 1/8" ball)

Unless you are cutting something like foam that needs it, you'll run 2-flute for the additional chip clearance on wood etc, otherwise:

5) 2-flute or 4-flute?

Oberg's is a dealer for the following producers: XLN, Micro100, Harvey Tool, Techniks, MAFord, SGS - and gets the deepest discounts available. Browse the online catalogs of these places and order from Oberg's at a discounted rate. I get NOTHING out of sharing this resource with you - They take orders over the phone. Don't waste their time - otherwise I hear about it when I go in there & I ain't getting paid enough to hear about who was acting like a tool :eek::D

Before you call, list the diameter tools you need and length of cut you need on a piece of paper. If you know that much, they can help you. All end mills are UPCUT. Order downcuts somewhere else, unless you want a 3-flute down from OSG or 3-flute straight from OSG.

-B

[blackhawk]

These Oberg Brothers sound like they used to run Seinfield's soup restaurant in NYC.

Customer: "Uh, what helix angle are your SGS 1/4" two flute endmills?"

Salesperson: "Question???, we answer no questions!!! NEXT!"

[Chuck Keysor]

Brady, thank you AGAIN very much for your valuable time and input. I now know enough to not get tangled up in ordering. I'll also look to see what starter 3d carving sets typically contain.

Sorry about your lost text. I hate it when that happens. It has gotten where before I press any buttons on a blog, I will copy all of my text to my clipboard. That has saved me from despair more times than I can recall!

Thank you again, Chuck

[Brady Watson]

Brad,
It's the difference between going to the Pro counter at a supply house, and walking into the big box stores. The bottom line is, you get top quality tools for low prices, sans the hand holding. If you are a tire-kicker or don't want to look in online tool catalogs to find what you need, then maybe Woodcraft is a better choice for you.

Chuck,
If you want a nice set, get: (1/16, 1/8) SXL & (1/4, 3/8 & 1/2") Long and Extra Long, in ball & square 2-flute end mills. That should get you going.

All reading this should know the basic concept that you never use a bit longer than you need to cut out a part. Material thickness varies, so you need MANY length tools at a given diameter in your arsenal to tackle whatever comes through the door. There is no steadfast rule here, but for the most part, STANDARD LENGTH is generally 2X the diameter of the tool. LONG is 3X. EXTRA LONG is 5X and SUPER EXTRA LONG is 6-8X tool diameter. There are exceptions that nudge these numbers up or down. For instance, Harvey sells end mills with over 12X Cutting Edge Diameter (CED) for those really deep 3D jobs. So, the length rule is just a general guideline. Want an 1/8" ball with a 1.875" length of cut? No problem!

-B

[blackhawk]

Woodcraft is good for me. I buy quite a few things at my local store. Always friendly and nice to deal with.

[Chuck Keysor]

Brady, thank you AGAIN! I had started to get lost on the Internet, looking to see what companies sold as 3D carving bit starter sets! I wondered off into never-never land. So now I finally have a good handle on what to order. (OK, back to the basement to get back to sanding MORE of those arches I was modeling a few months ago......) Chuck

[Brady Watson]

No problem Chuck. I try to share a good thing when I find it with the group.

As is true with anything in life, "Everything has a price" - whether that means some work on your part or actual dollars.

-B

[GlenP]

I use and sell Precise Bits products. They, we have a 1/32" carving tool that is coated like the amana tool. If you are in USA visit www.precisebits.com
If in Canada visit me www.cutncarve.ca
I am the Canadian Distributor and also a shopbotter. Who ever you buy from if you have any questions about the cutters I am more than happy to answer where I can for you.

Cheers,