Please help!!!! Totally new user!!!

[Howley]

I have so many questions I think my head is going to explode!!

I have a small one man cabinet shop in Pittsburgh, PA and am thinking about getting my feet wet with this CNC Stuff. I will be using the machine to cut up 4x8 sheets of plywood for general cabinet construction. Also I was going to use my machine for some 3D carvings in raised panel doors and molding. Maybe even try my hand at some signs when things get slow. I'm on kinda of a tight budget for my fist machine until I can prove to myself that this machine will actually pay for itself.

Questions:

1. Feedback on the PRS Standard with a 3.5 HP Portercable router. I know this is in the lower range, but again this is my first machine.

2. I think I need a vacuum hold down table, but I dont have 3 Phase power, at least without great expense. I did see a CNC setup that used two Fein Turbo 2 110v vacuums. (Shopvac sized units). It seemed to work great when using big sheets of plywood but almost did nothing when trying to work with small pieces even though the table was broken in to 4 segments with 3 of the 4 closed off. Any ideas on a good blower that will still work on 220V single phase?

3. Is the bit set that shop bot offers for $195 worth it? or could I get better quality of less money if I buy them individually? Which ones do I really need?

4. I have looked at the Laguna Swift 4x8 unit that comes a spindle and does not need a computer for close to the same price. However I would rather give my money to a company that sources in America and is build by Americans! After all I havent sold any of my cabinets to the Chinese lately;->
Any feedback on the Swift?

5. Any feedback on Cabinet Parts Pro? If I dont have a vacuum system will it do tabs?

I find this Forum to be very helpful, I could not find anything this good for the Laguna CNCs, Just some very polished marketing videos that promise the world, but seem to glaze over some very important topics and details.

Any feed back would be greatly appreciated, I want to purchase my shopbot CNC within a week or two and your feedback and guidance to help relieve some of my anxiety!!

Thank you!!! John


PS Does anybody have a machine in good shape for a great price? I don't want to spend $12,999 for a machine that I can buy new for $13,000!!

[Bob Eustace]

John as you are about to explode and no one is defusing you I can answer a couple of your queries. You will never go wrong with Shopbot or this forum in that both are unique in that they truly care. On the bits you cant go wrong as all are useable and many of us go on to keep using Onsrud via Garry on this forum.

[MogulTx]

John

I was completely unfamiliar with the machines about 3 years ago. I wanted to get my feet wet, like you- but could not afford to take a risk on a new machine if it turned out that it would not be the versatile device that I envisioned that it would. My business partner did not want to venture into new areas... so I was on my own to find the right process and machine AND to pay for all of it, etc! I started a small company to run it through, and did it all independently.... I could not be happier. I looked for a while at the new machines but then found a 4 x 4 machine about 50 miles from me. The owner couldn't figure out the tool pathing, etc. ( That really wigged me out. I wondered if I was biting off more than I could chew... turns out he was a total exception to the general population!)Anyway, I bought it and started working to figure it out. I went about 3 weeks and realized it was exactly what I thought it would be and that I WOULD be able to figure out most of the things I wanted to figure out- and that there were so many helpful people on this forum, that I would be able to get over the tough spots, as well. I really have not looked back. I broke a few bits early on... but that was just "the learning curve". ( Heck. I broke two tonight! I was cutting 1/8" thick tempered aluminum with a 1/8" bit. It is kind of slow and I was trying to take a shortcut.... shouldn't have, I guess!)

I have since gradutated to a 4 x 8 PRS Standard ( with the PC router) and then solid it and upgraded to a 5x10 PRS Alpha. I turned a curiosity into a small side business that is making good money. It is also teaching me how to do some of the other things I want to do in my main business. I now keep two people busy part time running the machine- and both of them are actually getting good at setting up cut files- and I do the more involved projects that we take on...

I do large composite panels all the time and do not have a vacuum hold down (it IS on my upgrade list. I have the vacuum equipment, but like you, do not have 3 phase available.) You CAN get along just fine without it. Don't worry. Edge Clamps, screws and double sided tape are your friends.

The bit set is worth it. You will use one or two - and wonder why you hav the others. You will snap one or two and be reording in no time- and will discover that the 195 is a pretty good price. Eventually, you will discover that you need a few 1/4" bits on hand all the time ( up spiral and down plus maybe a straight flute or ???) and that you may want a 1/2 and a few round nose bits, etc.... the type work you are doing will doctate the type bits you will need to source and the tendency to run the program without thinking will determine how soon you will need the next bit!

Skip the Laguna. You will get such a value from the people at ShopBot and the members of the forum that you will kick yourself if you buy any other brand. ( Really. And NO, I do not get a dime for saying it. )

Can't tell you a THING about Cabinet Parts Pro. I don't use it... not into cabinets.

The reason you don't find as good of help on the laguna site is that there are some really astounding people here and they share inf almost to a fault. I joined a lot of sites to check out home building a machine and buying one of the other brands. THIS is the place... and I only found it because of a great guy in the local area who helped me to do a couple projects before I ever got the gumption to get my own...

If I had to do it all over again, I would do it pretty close to the way I have done this. I really have no regrets. I doubt you will have any either.

Best of luck to you.

MGM

[myxpykalix]

John,
I asked hundreds of questions while deciding and waiting for my bot. My thinking on what to buy was this....I wanted to buy the biggest and newest model at that time because i wanted an indexer and wanted to be able to do anything i was asked to do with it. In other words i didn't want to limit myself because i bought too small a machine. Mine is 5'X10' with an indexer and i love it.
I realize you may be limited by budget, but as sure as i am about this, you will be asked to cut things with your bot that you would never have thought of in your "business plan". I've seen it hundreds of times.

I went to the trouble of creating a vacumn table with 2 feins (on a single phase 220 system) and have no problem running 2 feins, router, and dust collector out of the same sub panel.
However i actually rarely use my vacumn table because i don't do full sheets of plywood as often as smaller pieces.
I would save my money and go with an alpha over a standard with a spindle.
Just use a router. I'm only on my 2nd or 3rd in 7 years.

The cost of saving for the different models (alpha over standard) is way cheaper then buying something and telling yourself eventually you will upgrade. To do that will be more expensive in the longrun.

Re: other manufacturers.....just go look at their forums and see how active they are and come back here..anyone here will tell you about the great customer service, wah, wah, wah.....no need to pat them on the back...they know.
You can find plenty of hold down methods in leiu of a vacumn table, plenty of jigs for holding smaller parts.
Look in the "For Sale" section for something that might suiot your price range if you can't afford a new one.
Also write a post in the "Looking for shopbot owner" section to see if you can find a user close to you who would be willing to give you a demo of their unit.

re:bits.i'd check out www.centuriontools.com they have a starter kit
http://www.centuriontools.com/router-bits-toolcase/solid-carbide-wood-router-bits.html?sku=14STARTER1

These guys are friends of mine and if you look at the sharp point on these guys bits, it will make you bleed...excellent bits

Whether you buy new or used you will get the same customer service at no charge and with no hassle.

[bob_reda]

John,

Where you at in Pittsburgh? I am in Monessen and have a 4x4 with the RBK control box and hardened rails, kinda like a rebuilt 57 Chevy. If you want to come take a look you are more than welcomed.

Bob

[Rob Gunn]

John, I would never clam to be a expert but this is what worked for me.
I wanted to get into a CNC wood router but couldn't justify the $ for a new machine that I wasn't totally sure I could generate $ from. I went used and started out with a older ShopBot PRT96 that still had plenty of life in it and I was able to pick it up for a fraction of the cost of a new unit. I figured I could always put it back out on the form and get back out of it what I have in it. So far this machine has been able to do everything I have needed, Yes it is slower than a new machine but I'm never in that big of hurry anyway.

For accessories I just started out with a few of standard bits that can be found at any tool store (V-bit, endmill, ball nose, table surfacer). You could order a starter set from ShopBot but I found that I could find the same bits locally or on-line at the same price.

For software I have been very happy with Vectric VCarve Pro, this will do any 2D work that you could ever need to do. On rare occasion when I need to do 3D work I use Vector Art 3D models and use there free software to create my tool paths. So far no complaints. Someday I may find the need for the more expensive 3D Asiper software but not yet. Take a look at there web-sight and download the free trial software.
http://www.vectric.com/ I think you will like what you find. Just so you know, I am not a salesman, I just simply like what I have.

By the way, you will find the guys on this form to be the most honest and helpful bunch that you could ever ask for. I have appreciated all the members of this form from day one.

[twelchPTM]

i can't weigh in on CPP but if it helps i'll share my story....
We bought our ShopBot PRS Standard 48x96 about a year ago. The bit set from SB was great but the more you learn the more you need so I have added few tools to the collection. From past experience working in cabinet shops you will need to add quite a few yourself. Our machine actually paid for itself in one swoop when we produced some props for the museum for under $5,000 and outsourcing them would have been close to $100,000. This was a long process to figure out and I'll save the details for another day but I never would have pulled it off without input and help from the forums. I have never In my life seen a piece of equipment, a tool, a product with the support structure that the ShopBot offers from both the Company and fellow 'botters.
I don't know how this community came to be but somebody did something right.
The best piece of advice I can offer (and this can carry into almost any situation) is not to be intimidated, CNC can seem overwhelming from the outside but If you dive in with the right "I can do it" attitude you'll be amazing even your self in no time.

[gc3]

use a left hand bit for your plys, packs the chips in the kerf, parts won't move. get a spindle...big difference. download sb control software and a design software lots of free trials out there. go to a shop with a router and see how it runs. lots of videos on youtube on design, machine setup and cutting. there is a learning curve don't expect serious production for a few months, there's a bunch to learn especially toolpath strategy.

[zeykr]

CPP works well for a simple cabinet program, but if you're a cabinet maker look closely at Ecabinets and the shopbot link. Ecabs is free and you can download and get started learning it now. The link is about $1200 but you can make that up on the first big cabinet job. It has a much harder learning curve than CPP but is much more capable.