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MogulTx
07-29-2013, 10:13 PM
Guys (and Gals)

We all need to be looking into this. A Canadian group is designing an airplane.

http://whatsnext.blogs.cnn.com/2013/07/29/open-source-airplane-could-cost-just-15000/?hpt=hp_t2

The airplane is going to be primarily made of composites and some things are intended to be made from 3D printed materials ( light duty items like knobs). My experience is that for something to last robustly enough, it probably can not be made from a material that would become un-firm in the interior of a cockpit sitting on a tarmac in the summer ( think of the heat of the interior of your car! And that is how 3D printed products get made)

But think about this: There will be a BUNCH of wing spars that need to have molds if they do this out of composites. Our machines could do this mold making work CHEAP!

Or, if they do it out of aluminum, our machines could cut components for these folks!

What REALLY struck me is THIS: they say they want to do an "open source" design- meaning they will give away the design so that people can build the product inexpensively. If they do that, and if SHopBot takes a copy of the design and breaks it down and makes a standard set of cutting plans for molds for the composites, then offers them up at NO CHARGE, then they will probably wind up selling a LOT of new machines to people who want to make molds for these very light aircraft. It is a great marketing tool for ShopBot. No really. The maker thing is really hitting a nice stride and I THINK it is going to go much farther and companies like SHopBot are poised in an incredible position to take advantage of that. And we, as owners, could potentially get a lot of fun projects out of it!

And the knobs they want to print with 3D printers? Shopbots can cut them from various plastics that are NOT prone to becoming soft in a hot airplane in the sun! And Door panels, and instrument panels. And mold pieces for composite seats. And all sorts of things! I have done a lot of work in flight simulation and I will tell you that the CNC router is a critical animal in creating a precise part that is also repeatable. There will be a lot of people who will want to come to a CNC Router owner (Think about 100K Garages) to have them cut a set of templates- a section at a time, as they work through their project.

FLying machines will never be 1 to a family, but I think they will be surging in a couple years and if we can get ShopBot on board with this, I think there is great promise in it for a small amount of design labor ( from the provided plans)...

Look at it and see if this is not a prime opportunity.

curtiss
07-29-2013, 10:28 PM
You might be able to get some ideas here.

I believe the guy at 1:06 is a little closer to flight than some of the others.

Design grade C+ construction A- / lacks airspeed is all really.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y3fIr4dVYE&feature=fvwrel

MogulTx
07-29-2013, 10:52 PM
Thanks Curtis... Always room for some humor.

There are actually a LOT of composites used in aircraft design. The new Boeing Dreamliner is more than 50% composite. And there are amazing composites in numerous other aircraft. Helos have been large composite adopters for years. And SOMEONE has to make the molds for all the folks who want to try their hands at this.

gene
07-29-2013, 11:14 PM
I wonder if it could be built from plywood or other laminated materials?

tlempicke
07-30-2013, 07:30 AM
I have some experience along these lines. Built one kit and flew it for a couple of years, restored 4 J-3 Cubs.

A powerplant to do what that guy wants is going to cost about $15000. The materials about the same.

During the time I restored the J3's I owned one of the first non-cable driven machines that I bought from Ted Hall at a convention in Atlanta. Cost $5,000. It was really handy and I did a lot with it. Nose blocks, fairings and lots of little custom pieces.

The sketch on line is so far from reality that it is not worth considering.

MogulTx
07-30-2013, 11:53 AM
I agree that the sketch is pretty generic and a mish-mash of a J3 and something on the order of the Cirrus' or something ( looking at the aft fuselage structure). Tail is from ???

I also agree that the average AC engine is a 15-20K investment on a REBUILD. But they may be looking at an auto to AC conversion which would set up a different cost expectation. Even a Rotax would be fairly pricey ( and I don't know that they build one that is strong enough to pull this AC)- so they would have to have a different engine plan of some sort...

There was a pretty decent series of private builders in the 70's but not much since then. I am hoping this will spur some new development. The costs of carbon fiber are pretty high, but no where near the price of a new Cessna 172... A person really should be able to build an aircraft pretty inexpensively- but they have to let go of the traditional build mentality and go for a process shift. I would bet that the costs are 3X what they think they would be, and the advantage could be an experimental that is really a real aircraft and not a "sport" class... and if you can build a four place composite for 45K you are still doing great, IMO.

Brady Watson
07-30-2013, 01:07 PM
Economical Powerplant (http://www.flycorvair.com/)

-B

MogulTx
07-30-2013, 01:39 PM
HA! Cool, Brady!

bill.young
08-01-2013, 09:32 AM
If you want to help support the Makerplane project, they have an IndieGoGo campaign going right now:

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/makerplane-v1-0-open-source-aircraft

propellers
08-01-2013, 11:18 AM
Here is a couple sites that offer Free Aircraft Plans that are reliable, low cost, true aircraft. Time tested and built by all skill levels with excellent safety records.

This aircraft is cut by the manufacture and easily can be accomplished via SB. http://www.teammini-max.com/ . These can be purchased, completed in flying condition around $2000(this is less than purchasing materials to build from plans) and commonly $4,000 located at places like http://www.barnstormers.com/.

Heres another type that has Free Plans and the designer encourages someone to use his plans to manufacture kits or completed aircraft and ask for nothing in return. http://m-sandlin.info/

There are many Wood, Composite, metal aircraft in the market and all are oportunities for someone to offer cutting of components on the SB for the Manufacture or Homebuilder. Here's another low cost wood aircraft. http://www.eel.de/english/ulf-1_pictures.htm

Being in this market for nearly 50 years I have seen these projecst come and go with most never being finished and the price I see thrown around of $15K for a motor which is true and an airframe cost of another $10K+ Avionics and Instrumentation $$$ and with a team of unproven history I question if the money collected will be worth the end result.

Lonnie Prince
Prince Aircraft Company
419-877-5557