Indexer Questions...

[shilala]

I have a BT48 Buddy and I've been thinking hard about an indexer.
I understand there's a 3" and 6" offered by Shopbot.
Without looking at specs and dimensions of those units, I don't really know what I'm looking at.

My thoughts would be that I could achieve a 6" turning diameter by raising the turning stock and chuck up, and by raising my router.
I'd use the motor from my plunge router, which is much shorter, and make some bushings.
Between that and losing the 1 1/2" spoilboard I can gain 3 1/2" right off the get. That should let me turn 6" (diagonal, for 4 1/4" round) stuff without any other messing around. A 4" bedpost is pretty stout, and that's the max of what I'm after.
At least that's my thoughts.

The greatest z height I can achieve between the base of the router and is about 10 1/2". I'll lose at least 2 1/2" for the chuck and tooling, but that still gives me a good 6" unobstructed to center the indexer.
I'd like to mount it left to right. (Across the y axis on my machine.)

Can anyone shed some light on this for me?
Give me some things to think about before I go down this road?

[dana_swift]

I run a SB 6" indexer on by BT-32. I mount the indexer on a dedicated powerstick, the loss of the table provides some extra Z. Also I have mounted my router at the highest possible location in its bracket. Lastly I remounted the gantry to provide about 1.5" extra Z. With all that .. the indexer has plenty of room.

When I am not using the indexer, I remove it and its powerstick and replace the table and its powerstick. Most of the time the indexer is not in the shopbot, remember you MUST have the cable connected to the indexer all the time once its configured or the control board will see a driver fault and nothing will work.

My BT-32 is the original design, but the techniques would all work with the current model.

FYI I have found some odd uses for the indexer, like tapping and cleaning threads, winding coils, etc. I bought it as a toy, so I have never felt I had to justify its existence. Its been a great asset :)

Hope that helps -

D

[shilala]

Most of the time the indexer is not in the shopbot, remember you MUST have the cable connected to the indexer all the time once its configured or the control board will see a driver fault and nothing will work.

Dana, I'm much in the same boat as you. It's just gonna be another tool. Something to play with and I don't have to justify the room it takes up. I already have a 4' and 6' power stick, I may get an 8' or another 6' for it.

About the part I bolded...
How do you manage that? Do you store the power stick with the indexer under the machine so the cable reaches?
Maybe I'm not reading you right?
Thanks, brother. That certainly DOES help!!! :)

[Brady Watson]

...remember you MUST have the cable connected to the indexer all the time once its configured or the control board will see a driver fault and nothing will work.

This is true on an Alpha, since it will trigger a driver alarm. It is not the case on a Standard. You can unplug it (with power to ctrl box off of course...) or leave it plugged in. Your choice.

-B

[shilala]

I got installation instructions on the 3" and 6" from Diane at Shopbot.
I was hoping they had some dimensional drawings, no luck.

[dana_swift]

The cable that came with my indexer was fairly long, much longer than what the BT-32 needs, so I use the extra length to store the indexer and powerstick combo away from the bot. That keeps it out of the way when I am not using it.

When I am doing threading, the cable is long enough to reach my bandsaw with plenty of slack. So .. I unbolt the indexer from the powerstick and clamp the indexer to the bandsaw table so its easy to chuck up taps and dies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1_xu9MQ_cw

You will see my BT-32 slightly out of focus behind the indexer which is mounted to the bandsaw table in the video.

The indexer keeps doing all kinds of cool things in addition to indexing while routing. Its a very handy tool all by itself.

In the near future I was thinking about adapting it to drive a power feeder on the bandsaw for sawing heavy boards. Then I can use SB3 to set up the feed rate and length of cut on the bandsaw!

Shopbots are Kewl! Amazingly flexible..

D

[myxpykalix]

I'm not knowlegable on the clearances for this machine but as far as length you should be able to make 8' bedposts with no problem if you design you sections so that you can make shorter sections and dowel them together.
I think you'll find the indexer is one of the cooler addons that gives you a whole lot more creativity and design options.:eek:

[shilala]

I'm back to kicking around the indexer thing. I think I'll watch to see if anyone has one they want to get rid of.

[shilala]

Ya know, after looking at older threads, I think I might just try to put one together.
Unless I can talk Brady into doing it for me. :D

[myxpykalix]

Scott,
Go back to the very beginning pages of the indexer section and you'll see several examples of indexers that guys have cobbled together for as little as $200.00.
I would recommend setting up an indexer because to me it is the most creative add on you can get. Once you do get it, let us know and i'm sure we can get you cutting right away. :eek:

[Brady Watson]

It boils down to what you want to cut & how beefy it needs to be. Since the pressure between centers holds the part in place, I lean a little more to the beefy side than anything. This is for the 'lathe'/hardware portion.

You'll need a stepper & driver compatible with your system, timing pulleys and belt for reduction.

-B

[shilala]

It's the "non-familiarity" that makes putting it together myself not at all enticing, Brady.
I had Diane price out a 3" and 6" for me. I continue to hang in the "3" is too small and 6" is too big" realm of indecision.
Ideally, I'd like to have 4" ability. To me, that'd be ideal. On my BT48 PRStandard, I don't think I'd have the room for a 6", although I've been told it'll work.
I have an open power stick I can mount it to, so that's easy enough.

I need to watch more videos and become more familiar. I read a ton of old threads last time I went down this road, and mostly ended up confused.
Ideally, I'd go look at a machine that was set up with an indexer. Then it wouldn't be a problem for me to put it together at all.
That, in itself, is tough.

[Brady Watson]

There are 3 parts you can breakout to help with the decision:

1) Hardware: headstock, tailstock, bed/track to maintain alignment

2) Electro-mechanical: stepper motor, stepper driver, motor cable, motor mount, timing pulleys, timing belt

3) Software: VCP or Aspire good for most things; other software may be necessary for complicated rotary models.

It's hard to beat the turn-key approach to just ordering one from SB & bolting it up on a BT tool. Larger tools could deal with a wood lathe converted to indexer, but it would be a lot of work to do that on a BT.

A 3" indexer would be fine with 1" riser blocks under the head & tailstocks to get the height you need for indexing 4" stock. The 3" is tighter than the 6" in terms of rotational slop, although it doesn't have as much torque...but that could be rectified down the line with a beefier motor if needed.

-B

[scottp55]

Brady(or anybody), Installing Desktop Z-upgrade tomorrow AM so Just starting to consider indexer in the future. What would be my limitations in terms of the size of my materials and the size of indexer to buy from Shopbot. Turnkey appeals because I'm lazy.:)
Oh, I don't want to remove my spoilboard(.72" thick at present), I know it will affect accuracy, but would that throw an indexer out of the running for me? Spoilboard extends 3" each side of X extrusion and MANY 1/4X20 flanged threaded inserts available for mounting. Could maybe mount indexer on 1/4" aluminum base(thick enough?)? Clueless at moment, babytalk please if you answer.
Thanks,
scott

[shilala]

No idea why it never occurred to me to just shim up the 3", Brady. I was thinking the chuck would only accept a max of 3" round material.
The 3" is only $1275 or so from Shopbot. I think that's the way I'm gonna go.
Thank You again, for the umpteenth time. You've been a huge help, as always.

As an aside, this new toy is gonna cost me the 9mm Kimber CDP (LG) (http://www.kimberamerica.com/solo/solo-cdp-lg) that I've been coveting. It can wait some more. :)

[Brady Watson]

Scott in Maine:
The Indexer is designed to bolt to the table extrusions so that centers are aligned. With a 5.5" Z, you won't have to remove the MDF, but you will need another extrusion to align the HS/TS. I remove the MDF all the time and re-align it to pencil marks I put down on the AL when I put it back on after indexing. It is not a big deal...Plus, it takes seconds to redo C3 via TS if it is off a little. Drive V-bit on center with front edge & sail it down in X to verify parallel, then tighten down MDF. Uber easy...

You'll be limited to 3" (3.125-3.25" absolute max...remember square material on 45 deg) and somwhere around 18-20" on length. It doesn't sound like much, but you can index quite a number of things at that diameter and smaller.

Scott in OH,
No problem. You can't make money with the other toy without getting into trouble!

I didn't like the chuck that came with the 3" indexer. If you want a professional grade solution, get yourself some goodies from PSI: Baby Barracuda3 Chuck (http://www.pennstateind.com/store/CSC500K.html?prodpage=1CS) & Steb "Drive Center" (http://www.pennstateind.com/store/LCENTQC1.html?prodpage=1LC)

-B

[scottp55]

Thanks Brady. Can only see a tiny bit of extrusion at X,24+, and spoilboard is 24" on the Y so a Royal PITA from the chair to remove and re-install.
Yep, Dianne just said approximately $950 for 3".
Just thinking at this point.
Thanks again,
scott

[scottp55]

Forgot pic of my "swiss cheese" Version of Bill Y's spoilboard Oops.

[shilala]

Is the 3" for the desktop any different than the 3" for he btstandard?
Reason I ask is the $325 discrepancy. I'm not griping, I was just wondering if maybe the price went down??

[scottp55]

Just mentioning Scott.
In a friendly e-mail just asked her for an off the top of her head "Ballpark" figure for "down the road" and got that answer within 2 minutes. NOT a firm quote, and probably shouldn't have posted as it wasn't a business e-mail.:(

[Brady Watson]

Is the 3" for the desktop any different than the 3" for he btstandard?
Reason I ask is the $325 discrepancy. I'm not griping, I was just wondering if maybe the price went down??

The DT uses a much shorter motor cable & much cheaper motor driver. There may be a few other things too...Not sure if it includes any kind of extrusion for the base or not, since DTs use the existing bed extrusions to bolt the indexer to...I would ask to be clear.

-B

[shilala]

Scott, you mentioning the price isn't an issue at all. I got a hard price last year.
I just asked for the sake of information. I wondered what was different between the DT and BT.
Brady, thanks for the info. That makes perfectly good sense.

I'm sure not gonna get puckered up about any of Shopbot's prices. I think they're more than fair.
I thought it was kind of cute, the other thread about hardened rails for $3k and the thoughts of a Chinese machine. No disrespect whatsoever to the gentleman posting, but I'd pay anything not to have to struggle with Chinese anything. :)

If I had to pay for the education I've gotten from here and from Shopbot and Aspire, I can't imagine how much it'd cost. I just paid for my daughter's college algebra class and her book. $2675.
I'd probably bet a five spot that I get a lot more from my education here than she'll ever get from that class. And I haven't even gotten a bill.
Not even from Brady!!! lol :)

[myxpykalix]

I just paid for my daughter's college algebra class and her book. $2675.

Yes, that's expensive, but just realize the liberal indoctrination is free.......:rolleyes: