lost Z

[twelchPTM]

I walked away for less then 5 minutes to answer the door and the bot lost its Z and plunged allthe way into the spoilboard until the collet made contact with the spoilboard. needless to say I have a 6 inch crispy line on my deck right now. What could have caused this?

[Rick W]

Maybe in your set up you zeroed from the bottom of the material instead of top???

[myxpykalix]

how bout a few more details...were you running a file at the time? 2D or 3d? Were you running a router or spindle?

how long after you started the file did this happen?

When i first started with my bot this happened to me and i had a .5 endmill in my router and it buried itself to the collet like you and then it blew a couple fuses i had in my control box that i had to replace. You could see the floor fom the top of my router!:eek:
In my case i seem to recall it was a misplaced ( . )

[twelchPTM]

sorry for the lack of details ... I was about 20% into a file cutting .125" deep with a pointed round over to create diagonal beadboard. The bit remarkably is fine it continued to cut as the machine apparently ramped way down into the bed. I have had minor issues since upgrading to 3.8.6 but nothing like this. The mdf was glowing and had I had been gone a second longer it could have been catastrophic. I have repaired the bed and spoildboard and am in the process of rolling my control software back to the 3.6 that came with it. I am noticing that a lot of setting changed after the software upgrade are still there so I am manually removing all traces of shopbot software so I can start fresh

[twelchPTM]

I am a few short moments away from smashing the whole computer....uninstalled SB3 and SB driver, manually deleted every trace of the sb software I could find. reinstalled the 3.6.4 and everytime I start the software it says the controlbox is present but not responding. I select the option to try a different port, scan for the shopbot hit okay and then it connects. The and even more troubling is the setting changed after the last upgrade are still the same!

[srwtlc]

Thomas,

Upon rolling back to 3.6.44, you must update the firmware again, as 3.6 and 3.8 use different firmware versions. Follow the steps outlined when clicking UI (Utilities/Install Control Box Firmware).

[twelchPTM]

yes I know I have done that. Several times. nothing seems to be working. My bot ran flawlessly since I got it, one ******* software update and now it fights me every step of the way.
Currently my mission is to completely remove any and all traces of shopbot software from the pc before reinstalling. If that doesn't work my mission will be slightly different and may involve a hammer....

[jerry_stanek]

Call Shopbot and they will walk you through removing the software.

[twelchPTM]

I have called shopbot and while they are normally very helpful. I am not happy with them right now. In the midst of all the software issues, the aluminum stem that connects the internal power switch to the one on the face of the control box snapped! The darn thing is so twisted that it is obviously a cheap POS item and the only thing I have heard from the good folks at SB so far is - "we'll check with our electronics guy and see if this is a warranty issue". Also the problem I am having is defiantly the SB software because when I installed the same software onto my laptop it gave me the same issues. I then downloaded 3.8.8 and the com issue is no more however based on the glitchy performance of 3.8.6 I really don't trust it to run my machine.
Tomorrow I will get my IT guy to give me the discs I need to completely wipe the entire control PC and start fresh with the software CD included with my machine.

[myxpykalix]

Thomas,
I understand your frustration but like ny grandkids say..."take a chill pill and relax":D
We'll get it figured out don't worry.
First thing i would do is to go over to your circuit breaker and shut all power to the bot completely off because many times the control box will keep settings, positions and other info in it's internal memory and it is possible you are fighting that bugaboo:mad:
Then reboot computer and see if that resolves anything. if not...

I think i am still running 3.6(?) so go back to 3.6, update firmware, reboot and see if that solves anything:confused:

BTW my power switch broke the first week i had it and i just covered the hole up and open and close the box when i want to turn power on.

[signsbyjay]

How long ago did you upgrade to 3.8 ?
If it has been in the last 90 days, go to the Restore to an older date function on your computer and roll the PC back to before you upgraded.

If that doesn't work you still have the option of a full format and reload windows, but restore is much faster.

Jay

[twelchPTM]

okay well here it is - for some reason, trying to roll the software (and CB firmware) to what worked fine from the time we got our machine is not going to happen. What causes the issue is something the world may never know but it will not communicate properly. Upgrading to the latest 3.8.8 solves the com. issues but has me VERY nervous due to the spotty performance I have seen and heard about.

I have my IT guy coming down to weigh in on the issue and help decide if I should upgrade the control PC or not. I am leaning towards yes. I realize when we first got the bot we were cutting simple shapes but as I learn more the partfiles are becoming more and more complex.

And by the way, the aluminum shaft for the power switch can be replaced. It is manufactured by EEControls if you call them you can get your closest distributor and order part CC-SHAFT.

[myxpykalix]

Not knowing what your PC is, i'm not sure that it is the issue. I have been using a 7 year old laptop to run 2d files, large 3d files, indexer files, and many other things running windows7 (or is it win 98?) and never have had a problem. So i'm not sure your issue is computing power.:confused:

[twelchPTM]

I am not entirely sure the PC is my issue either, but here is where I'm at... my bot is less then two years old so the control box hardware should be fine.
The USB cable is in fine physical condition and the HUB is brand new (I bought a fancy one that sits inside a desk grommet). That only leaves the PC. I stripped every piece of additional software and hardware from the computer I am basically running a skeleton however the PC it over 5 years old and was originally designed to run Vista Home. When our IT guy set it up for us he wiped everything out and Installed the only version of windows we have a license for - 7 Professional.
Also when 3.6 is installed and I run the speed test I only get an Transmission Efficiency score of 71 (can't find the speed test after I installed 3.8) The software says you want to be above 70 but at 71 I image it is real easy to slip under 70 and have issues.
All that along with the fact that the most common issue I have experienced is communication related, I am pretty sure I need to get that score up, how to go about doing that is what I will leave up to my IT guy.

[srwtlc]

With 3.6 you could use the speed test to check for efficiency, with 3.8 you have to make a small move like 10+ inches and then UD (Utilities Diagnostic Information) to see what the Packet ET is. 20 or less is good.

That being said, your USB system may be partly to blame. If you use USBview (it can be found in 'C:\Program Files (x86)\ShopBot\Diagnostics', or you can download it), you'll see that you have both standard and enhanced host controllers in the left pane. If your 'Fancy' hub doesn't show up on an Enhanced controller, it's not a 'High Speed' hub and will only show up on a standard controller. You can also look in the information on the right pane and see if it is running 'High' or 'Full'. Since the SB controller is not a 'High Speed' device (it's a 'Full Speed' device), it will only show connected to a standard controller as 'Full', thus the reason for plugging it into a 'High Speed' hub Which seems to make the transmission efficiency better. With 3.8 and it's improved communications, this doesn't seem to make much difference (at least in my testing of three different computers). I seem to get the same Packet ET on each computer and on any USB port/controller, USB 3.0 included. USB device speeds are 'Low', 'Full', or 'High'. High Speed devices will show up on Enhanced controllers. I have also seen some motherboard BIOS's that have a setting for USB speed where 'Full' was the default and you had to set it to 'High'.

So, if your hub isn't on an Enhanced controller, you would be lucky to get 70. I was consistently getting 87-89 with 3.6 and with 3.8 a Packet ET of 19 on a 3.8ghz AMD PC with 8gb ram and Win 7, but have seen many hiccups with it and 3.8. Testing an older single core Athlon XP 2500+ with 2gb ram and a clean lean Win XP running 3.8, I was getting an ET of 24, but it ran the machine fine. On a recently custom built quad core AMD APU PC with 8gb ram and a clean Win 7, I'm getting ET's of 16 (with an occasional 22+) on any port/controller or with an external powered hub. Even with that, 3.8 is still glitchy from time to time.

How much merit do we put in those numbers....I don't know. The old single core PC ran the machine just as good as the quad core build. It may not have handled a huge 3d file as well though.

I don't claim to be an expert on all the USB controller stuff, but this is what I've seen in my testing and researching of Enhanced controllers and how to get a device to show up on one. If anyone has further info or a correction to what I've said, please add to or correct me.

[twelchPTM]

scott, thank you for that I know my hub is usb 2.0 but that is all I know. I will definatly run through that lis t you laid out there and check things out.

I was a techie at one point in my life but I found my love to be carpentry and computers to expensive to keep up with, USB was brand new the last time I was in the PC Lab and dual core processors were just beginning to be thought about

[jTr]

Thomas,
for what it's worth, I had to throw away the hub. My system simply would not work with it. Last I checked, I'm in that 70-ish range, and all has been fine for the last year or so.

jeff

[twelchPTM]

the reason for the hub (what I was told) is that a USB 2.0 hub plugged into a USB 1.0 port "converts" the 1.0 port to a 2.0 port. After Talking with my IT gut we came to the conclusion that it may not be that my control PC needs more or faster anything but components that operate at a higher efficiency then what was available when the PC was new

[jerry_stanek]

Look in the device manager and see if there are any enhanced usb ports that is the ones you want. A hub will not make a 1.0 port 2.0 it will only force a 2.0 to operate at 2.0.

[srwtlc]

I think Jerry meant it will only force a 2.0 to operate at 1.0. ?

You could put a Hi-Speed 2.0 PCI card in if you have a free PCI slot and that would give you the enhanced ports to plug into.

The confusion (if anyone is) with enhanced and standard USB connections is that a PC may well have an enhanced controller (along with a standard or open controller), but from what I can see, since the SB controller is a 'Full Speed' device (that's what it is shown as in USBview), that no matter where you plug it in, it will always end up on a standard controller and not the enhanced one. By attaching a 'High Speed' USB hub to one of the USB ports on the motherboard, you force that hub to be on an enhanced controller and at that point, you can get the SB controller to be on the enhanced controller instead of the standard. Same thing happens with a 'Hi Speed' PCI card.

With my recent build, I tried a PCI-E USB 3.0 card (which covered all the speed ratings) and with SB3.8, I saw no difference with Packet ET. Sent it back for a refund.