Surge Dairy vacuum pump

[t28c34]

Has anyone tried using a Surge milking machine pump for a source for vacuum table?

[cwshop]

Is yours a piston or rotary vane vacuum pump. I have a Delaval rotary vane vacuum pump on my shopbot. Works really well, holds really well. I have family in the dairy business. So getting a used one and knowledge of how it works was easy. What do you need to know?

[jhedlund58]

WoW... that gives me an idea. My wife has a breast pump she not using anymore... thank goodness as the kids are in H.S. now and it has been on shelf for a Loooooong time. I hope she lets me have it!!!

[pappybaynes]

WoW... that gives me an idea. My wife has a breast pump she not using anymore... thank goodness as the kids are in H.S. now and it has been on shelf for a Loooooong time. I hope she lets me have it!!!
That's just wrong!

[khaos]

Talk about a stress ball...

[t28c34]

I am pretty sure its a piston type, it has a oil tank and is in need of a good cleaning. It has'nt run in 15 plus years. The only other problem is that its three phase and i need single. Can it be nun with a single phase motor?

[cwshop]

Terry
I will try to talk above the above senseless chatter on this subject. Single phase is fine just keep a similar horse power. Make sure the oil reservoir is working properly. If you have a tank for vacuum storage is nice. My pump had no tank, so I created storage thru a 4” PVC Pipe (50 Lin. Ft.) running from my utility room to the shopbot. Most milking vacuum systems are governed at 15 inches of mercury. This can be changed to a higher setting for your new use. I’ve set mine to 23 inches of mercury, which still leaves enough air flow for cooling. Mine had no governor, so I made one. That’s another story.

[t28c34]

Looks like I'm going to have to go to the farm to rescue it and clean it up. Once I get it cleaned up and able to read the motor plate better I can start a hunt for a motor.

[dana_swift]

Terry- vacuum pumps really benefit from a "vacuum bottle" being added to the system. Then when you open the valve to start the pull-down there is a place for the air under the material to go. Remember the bleeder board is full of air also, it needs to leave "at once". This rush of exiting air only happens at the very beginning and a nice size place for it to go really helps force the workpiece down hard, and immediately.

I used a 100 pound propane bottle, which I got for free. (love that price!) The only problem is it still puts out a mercaptan odor (the stink added to gas so people can smell leaks). Since I know its not telling me there is a gas leak I can ignore it, the odor happens when the pump is first switched on and seems to fade (or my nose gets accustomed to it) after a minute or so.

Let your friends know you would like a good sized bottle that is past its lifetime and you probably can pick one up at the same price $0.

If you do use a propane bottle be absolutely sure its empty before hooking it to a vacuum pump!

My vacuum piping is all 2" PVC, that worked well, but bigger is better if you have the room for it. The space in the pipes just give more place for that initial inrush to go.

Hope that helps- good luck! Post some photos :)

D

[t28c34]

Hey thanks for the info. Yea i was thinking what to use for a resivor. I think i have an old air tank around, Im not sure how big it is. I like the idea to of using 4 inch PVC because i will have a long enough run between where It will be mounted and my shopbot. When i bought my shopbot it already had a 1-1/2" PVC 8 zone layout under it, so i dont have to worry about that part. Think i will go pull out the pump this weekend. I'll post some pick when get out.

[myxpykalix]

These guys seem to know more about this then me, however when i was a kid we rigged up an old propane tank as a portable air source to blow up tires when we had flats.
When we would fill these things up i always feared it was going to explode. My advice would be to have a pressure gauge on the tank so you could monitor the pressure.
I also know on my large air compressor it has a relief valve and i'm sure it is set to relieve the pressure at a set amount and i wonder if your system would put out enough pressure to warrant something like that?:eek:

[jerry_stanek]

These guys seem to know more about this then me, however when i was a kid we rigged up an old propane tank as a portable air source to blow up tires when we had flats.
When we would fill these things up i always feared it was going to explode. My advice would be to have a pressure gauge on the tank so you could monitor the pressure.
I also know on my large air compressor it has a relief valve and i'm sure it is set to relieve the pressure at a set amount and i wonder if your system would put out enough pressure to warrant something like that?:eek:

With a vacuum you don't need to worry about an explosion but an implosion. The tank would just crush.

[coryatjohn]

With a vacuum you don't need to worry about an explosion but an implosion. The tank would just crush.

Plus... a propane tank is rated to like 600 psi so it would be impossible to crush it with a puny max vacuum of 30 psi.

[dana_swift]

John- you basic point is absolutely correct- 600psi tank will hold.

However max vacuum is just over 15psi in death valley when a high pressure system moves in. In all other cases its lower. I suspect you were thinking inches of mercury.

I use a propane bottle and it works great.

D

[Brady Watson]

The air tanks from HD & HF (10 & 11 gal respectively) work well too for those little Gast pumps used for veneer & vac bagging etc. There are lots of ways to do it, including using a shopvac in conjunction with your higher suction dairy pump to help evacuate the chamber and build negative pressure. Some intelligent vac management tricks like this (http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showpost.php?p=101950&postcount=11) can make the most of what you already have at the shop.

-B

[coryatjohn]

The air tanks from HD & HF (10 & 11 gal respectively) work well too for those little Gast pumps used for veneer & vac bagging etc. There are lots of ways to do it, including using a shopvac in conjunction with your higher suction dairy pump to help evacuate the chamber and build negative pressure. Some intelligent vac management tricks like this (http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showpost.php?p=101950&postcount=11) can make the most of what you already have at the shop.

-B

I used one of those "tricks" with my vacuum setup. I use a one way valve so I can switch from a parallel configuration to series with the turn of one handle. That gives me the option of low vacuum, high cfm or high vacuum, low cfm.

Thanks!

[t28c34]

Well I finally did it and pulled my dads old dairy vacuum pump out and starting cleaning it up. The motor is 3 phase which I don't have in my shop, so I will have to buy a single phase motor. I rigged up a small motor on the pump to make sure it still draws down and it works great with just a little 1/3 hp motor on it to test with. Ill keep everyone interested up to date as I progress.

[t28c34]

Well it sucks life again! I finally got around (and the money) to work on my project. I welded a patch over the hole in the balance tank, and bought a new single phase 3 hp motor. I mounted it up im my loft in the corner of the shop. With the exhaust plumed outside, it is quieter than my fien vac. Well at least their is no high piched whine. It draws down 25+ inches, and with the stall cock open it only drops about 8 inches. I have to mount the lines yet and attach the manifold to the side of my control cabinet. Then clean out the catch all space under my shopbot to get under it, and around it to rebuild the vacuum table that was never made corectly when i bought it. I have to dig out the portable air tank i have somewhere and put that in the system for a vacuum tank. I put the stall cock in so i can be versital and use pods or even vacuum bags if needed.
Dairy farming was not in my blood growing up. I went on to being a cabinet maker and craftsman. I'm pretty sure dad approved of that, and not carrying on the farm. He stoped milking cows about 25 years ago I think, so the pump as been idle ever since. Dad is 85 and has Alzheimer's now. Im sure he would remember the vacuum pump, but problably not understand what im doing with it. But it hit me the other day, that i get to in a way, carry on a little bit of the farm in a different way. So I cleaned up the original vacuum gauge that still worked and polished a brass stall cock that he used on it when they went from 80 head down to just one cow for themselves. Its kind of cool haveing a little bit of the farm in my shop.
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[khaos]

Very unique. Looking forward to see how it works.