It Is All Your Fault! Hooked on Mazes.

[Burkhardt]

Couple of weeks ago I saw Jack Jarvis' post about cylindrical maze machining files and that got me thinking about an easier and flexible way of creating tool path files for various mazes (actually it cost me some sleepless nights).

Unfortunately, the popular maze generating algorithms I found on the 'net do not lend themselves easily to convert to router bit paths and honestly some of the math was way over my head. However, I figured out my own algorithm that should be easy to convert into g-code or sbp files and allow for flat, cylindrical repeating or 4-sided repeating patterns with selectable outlines (that latter 2 would need an indexer). So far my test code only creates a screen graph but even that looks pretty cool. If somebody wants to play with it, here are the files

If you want to machine a 20-ft size maze and drive the puzzler crazy you could do this. (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29562014/Mazemaker0_24a.exe)

A more practical design would be that... (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29562014/Mazemaker0_24b.exe)

Is that worthwhile to develop into a real CAM specialty program? If there is enough interest I may go for it.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-hZPkgVxJ5Io/UoG9BCez3_I/AAAAAAAAEUs/nV8b5PmD3VQ/w818-h821-no/RoundMazeHole.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_mIjQ58K0W0/UoG9CQG_mEI/AAAAAAAAEU0/J0TmxOCAHjM/w818-h822-no/SquareMaze.jpg

[myxpykalix]

G,
HA HA HA....(actually it cost me some sleepless nights) it looks like this is one of those nights. :eek:

I had seen a file made by TJ and was interested in info on it and where the supplies like the glass cylinder and sizes and had not heard anything. There have been other maze files but obviously the larger you make it the bigger it has to be.
This is why i was interested in the cylindrical maze files because you could make it bigger (going from 1" to 4" diameter) and it wouldn't make it so unweildy that you couldn't have it sitting on the coffee table or throw it in a bag to take for the kids to play with in the car.

For me what is going to dictate sizes is where you can locate the glass cylinder, end caps and ball bearings (or marbles) for supplies.
Because it seems to me that material size, depth of the trough cut, and size of the bearing along with clearance of the glass cylinder are all things that need to be taken into account when figuring this out.

That was why i was hoping to get info from Shopbot or TJ to see if those files were available or info n where to get the supplies.

I haven't looked at your files yet but if it is something i can read and try to make something on my indexer i may give it a try.

[myxpykalix]

G,
I downloaded the 2nd file you posted, a exe file and upon opening it it shows a representation like in your picture but i see no type of controls or anything that would allow you to change the maze, or save it or do anything? I even tried to manually move in the screen thinking i could do that but nothing...:confused:

I'll go try the first file. Not sure what to do:confused:

[steve_g]

To be a usable maze generator for non-programmers it would need (in my opinion) the following features...
· The ability to set gross dimensions
· be able to set path width
· select start and stop points... or at least some parameters like start at top, end at bottom.

A neat feature would be the ability to flood fill a given perimeter vector. This would let you select an outline of say a cow, select the mouth as start point and the other end as finish. making it an educational aid for vet schools... Or an outline of Texas and help Davey get to the Alamo!

Since vector creation is so easy with bitmap tracing, you wouldn’t even need that feature built into the program!

These are my quick ideas and I’m sure others will add to it!

SG

[khalid]

The first one is amazing. Great programing skills you have.:)

[zeykr]

Nice!
I think it would be fun to work with. I agree with Steve about his points especially the fit to perimeter vector.

[scottp55]

I was playing with the idea of a ping-pong paddle size one for children who have problems with fine motor skill problems (saw one on the forum) but don't have the programming skills yet. Yes, It would be very helpful.
Love your ideas, but have enough problems with sleeping now with Desktop "Ideas". Shopbot should give you the 'education" discount so you can play directly with a machine.:)

[Burkhardt]

G,
I downloaded the 2nd file you posted, a exe file and upon opening it it shows a representation like in your picture but i see no type of controls or anything that would allow you to change the maze, or save it or do anything? I even tried to manually move in the screen thinking i could do that but nothing...:confused:

I'll go try the first file. Not sure what to do:confused:

Well, this is just an experimental program that has no parameter input (all settings are still hard coded in the source text) and no output other than the image. I just posted it because I think it is cool watching the maze develop. However, I can already program mazes with 90-degree or 45-degree directions, selectable crumminess and selectable branching probability. The algorithm also allows for closed surfaces, that is if an end of the matrix is reached the path pops up at the other end (so you can cut a closed maze into a cylinder or 4-sided stud). I could do the cow or Texas outline but the input of perimeter cells is still manual. I would have to do something to load an image file.

But that is why I was asking about interest. So far this was just a fun problem solving exercise but to make it practical I would have to invest a week or two writing code for a user interface and g-code/sbp output.

[dana_swift]

Looks to me like you are having fun! Its great to see other people who like to combine computer programming with CNC machines. Algorithms are fun to develop, as they require so much pondering.

I have also messed with the maze problem. One option on a program is to allow multiple solutions, another is to allow arbitrary start/end points so the maze cannot be solve using a simple algorithm like the right hand rule. (Always touch a wall with your right hand, it automatically solves all mazes with exterior entry-exit points).

Should you allow islands? Maze paths with no way in/out?

Perhaps only one exit, but many start points. So its not a matter of learning "the" solution.

The branch probability should be programmable, so at any point in the maze the chance of an optional path to consider can be specified.

Lots of fun to think about-

Looking good!

D

[myxpykalix]

I can offer you ideas and suggestions and can try to cut something on my indexer but i have no skills at programming something like this. I leave that to you "Nerds" (an affectionate term:D) who understand how to do that kind of stuff as it is way over my head.

I like to hear you and Dana talk about algorithyms, ect but don't understand a word of it:D (kinda) but do have a indexer and if you make something and want it tested i'll do that.

[zeykr]

I would just output vectors (centerline probably) or even a high quality bitmap and not worry about outputting gcode or SBP code. Existing cam software can handle that part.

[Burkhardt]

Thanks guys for the ideas. I will see what I can do but it looks there may be enough interest to proceed.


.... Or an outline of Texas and help Davey get to the Alamo!.....

Apparently Davey took the long route:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Z66D8YWkKM0/UoLjD5YdxbI/AAAAAAAAEVE/FbwVqPVM6-M/w821-h832-no/Alamo.jpg

I imported a screen shot into Vcarve but I am not happy with the resolution:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-UY9jagnuge8/UoLjFcZLGzI/AAAAAAAAEVM/QO38sdm5gbc/w1006-h862-no/Alamo1.jpg

Davey could also go diagonal:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-OJJC4s0xi-U/UoLjHPm_m1I/AAAAAAAAEVg/X0kmxK6aXZk/w819-h817-no/Alamo2.jpg

[Burkhardt]

Or better the bit meets the wood.

I kept working on my maze program and added g-code output to try it out. Still no user interfacae, though. I thought to use a cheap bamboo cutting board as material but that was a big mistake. While bamboo plywood in general machines beautifully without much fuss and splinters, I did not know they stuff such cutting boards with scrap material from the inside. Different colors, lots of voids but anyway, this was just an experiment and some more software improvements are needed. But so far, so good.

Roughing pass, i.e. slotting 12mm wide with a 1/4" end mill:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3K1GZbVwU9o/Uof_ZKadLSI/AAAAAAAAEVs/i9Hzzrv6OF4/s1024/DSC01979.JPG

Finished maze, looks good except the scrap wood inside:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-9sMuSYeHV4s/Uof_aOYI87I/AAAAAAAAEV0/x9BlcM6ieRg/s1024/DSC01981.JPG

Detail of the undercut ball channel:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-bFT5uxYv7AI/Uof_bJYMlPI/AAAAAAAAEV8/kVHvgLt2zus/s1024/DSC01984.JPG

A marble has ample play to roll around but cannot fall out except entry and exit:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-r7144m49eGw/Uof_cINfjPI/AAAAAAAAEWE/LDjKEtPhASo/s1024/DSC01987.JPG

[mick40]

I'm trying to rap my head around how you did the undercut. Guessing the bull nose bit cut on both sides of the vectors?

:confused:

Looking to learn!

Mick

[Burkhardt]

http://www.amazon.com/Magnate-Plunge-Carbide-Tipped-Router/dp/B0006TI0GG
To my knowledge they are they only company who makes this with 1/4" shank. If I need a channel with bigger diameter than the bit end I run several paths with a tiny offset to widen the channel.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31gXdUiMkmL._SX385_.jpg

[zeykr]

Rockler carries marble bits also.

[myxpykalix]

Here's a thought...could you buy a maze book like from Dover books and use that as a template?

Here is just a thought that occurred to me and i hadn't thought thru how you might accomplish this but...doesn't one of these programs have a weave function?
Maybe you could fashion some high weaves and you may have to manually drill thru the side for ball pass thru but that might add a deminsion your your maze that is kinda cool:eek::D:confused:

[Burkhardt]

.......................ball pass thru but that might add a deminsion your your maze that is kinda cool.......

Yes, this would be cool, and probably not be too difficult. The maze generator algorithm would only have to expand the random search to the adjacent plane additional to the adjacent cells of the same plane. If the board is not too thick, the machine could mill trough just as well. Maybe I do that sometimes.

But first things first....I still need to try the maze on the cylinder. I have the tool path already, just need to find a suitable piece of wood. The tricky part was to wrap the maze around the dowel without a seam.....
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-tcTLbdwXhnY/Uomh-IvawCI/AAAAAAAAEWU/LCYP4j82zV4/w879-h459-no/CylRough.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-97zqwaFHKH8/UomjRqjibFI/AAAAAAAAEWc/aehe09U-u28/w1024-h450-no/CylSlot.jpg

[steve_g]

I really like your “captive” marble method… It really simplifies construction! In the past I’ve put clear plexi covers on my mazes but the plexi adds a whole level of problems… Where and how to screw or glue them on, coefficient of expansion issues (buckling) and polishing the edge so children fighting over them can’t get cut!

Do you plan to use the captive marble method on the cylinders?

SG

[myxpykalix]

G,
If you need someone to test this toolpath let me know i have an indexer. I have a ballmill also for the toolpath (not sure what size it is offhand).

It would seem to me you would want to run the toolpath with a ballnose or endmill first then rerun it with the ballmill?:confused:

[Burkhardt]

G,
If you need someone to test this toolpath let me know i have an indexer. I have a ballmill also for the toolpath (not sure what size it is offhand).

It would seem to me you would want to run the toolpath with a ballnose or endmill first then rerun it with the ballmill?:confused:

If you give me your email by PM I can send you the g-code (sorry, the .sbp file output is not ready yet). The design can be machined with a 1/4" endmill for a first slot cut and a 1/2" ball end bit for the undercut finish. I remove the bulk of the slot first with the endmill because routing the entire undercut with the ball end in one pass is difficult. Too many chips and limited space to escape.

The cylinder will come out with 92.5 mm diameter and about 275mm machined length. I.e a piece of 4x4" will do (real 4x4 not 3.5x3.5). I glued up such a piece yesterday and hope I can cut it tonight.


.............Do you plan to use the captive marble method on the cylinders?......

Yes, this is the plan. Obviously, the clear plastic tube is even more difficult and restricting sizes than a flat sheet. I also don't like that there will be dust collecting under the plexiglass.

[Burkhardt]

I did a first attempt routing a cylindrical maze. The intent was to hold the ball captive with an undercut but somehow I managed to make the slot too wide and the ball falls out in the corners. Oh well, got to try again.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Ry4mMFhMxTw/Uor7QuOHB5I/AAAAAAAAEWs/HqT-n-bDXEA/w1024-h768-no/DSC01991.JPG

[scottp55]

Now you guys have me doing it! Wanted to do a fun project today and profiled my ball end cutter. And then started to look for circular mazes on the web, the idea was to have multiple marbles starting in the center(every person gets a different color and a small dowel to steer with). A half of a wooden ball underneath to allow play. first person out wins so multiple exits would be nice.
Wanted to try the "trapped ball" as I thought it could get intense. I've only spent 3 hours putzing in VCarvePro and nothing usable. Does anybody have a super simple maze I can play with just so I can grasp the kind of drawing I'll have to make? Will be using the ballend plunge bit. Frustrating but fun.

[scottp55]

Somebody else's pic from web so I can't use it, except to play with. Crazy Making. Thanks guys.

[copcab]

That appears to be the Chartres Labyrinth which is certainly not copyrighted. It is from like the year 1200 and is laid in stone on Chartres cathedral floor in France. I make these on my shopbot in corian and have sold quite a few.The initial model and toolpathing took maybe 6 or 7 hours.

[scottp55]

Thanks Patrick, I was just grabbing several mazes off the web to play with to try to get a handle on what was involved and liked that one. Being a braintwister to figure out Captured ball though. Will look up history now I know it has one. G. and Jack are beyond me by a universe or two though.

[scottp55]

Duh. Labyrinth, not maze unless I make it one. I quit for the day,That's my third mistake today.

[Burkhardt]

.......I quit for the day,That's my third mistake today.

See, that is what you get from hanging around here. I am not going to count the hours I spent on the maze software and trying it out. All hours that I could have used to finish my bathroom project earlier (see the "flood epoxy" thread).

But I am getting somewhere. The reason I write my own CAM tool code is that Vcarve/Aspire is a bit limited for such special tasks. If you guys sometimes stop giving me new ideas I might actually finish the software in a condition that can be distributed :D

[scottp55]

G. First time I saw you was "Flat? dovetails", love your ideas,but the idea of writing G-code for the machine. Would never have gotten into this. Aspire limited? It'll be a while before I can use all of VCARVE. Must admit Jack stole a couple of my hours playing with chicken coops, Many hours (days?) trying to figure out what the heck Brady and Dana were talking about. Check forum everyday to see what people are doing and mistakes to avoid, and unfortunately open my yap before thinking and ramble, then hope somebody posts quick to cover it up. Still trying to get out of thinking pullsaws,chisels,planes, etc. Know what you mean about ideas though. What I thought were classic,custom ebony wedges holding my teak cloud-lift grab rail wall supports, now need to be taken off and given a Celtic design I saw last week. Keep up the ideas.

[Burkhardt]

................Keep up the ideas.

Don't worry. I can't help it. I have crazy ideas all the time. Sometimes they even work.

Here is what I did tonight. I want to try the cylindrical maze again but not waste a thick chunk of nice hardwood on another experiment (cheap softwood will tear apart with the fine detail, I tried that).

So I used the 30-degree V-bit that I got for my special dovetails and sliced a 3/4" birch plywood piece into 12 staves (using VcarvePro) but left an onion skin (maybe 25/1000") to hold it together. Then I brushed the grooves with glue and rolled it up to a barrel. The onion skin creases when rolling but does not fall apart. I am planning to "turn" it on the indexer to a cylindrical tube and then carve a maze into it. Might be an idea to make columns on the cheap? Maybe I try a real barrel with tapered staves sometimes.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-NDjMcT0D4a8/UpLfeGaZEXI/AAAAAAAAEXc/YluYrv0zwJ8/w1024-h768-no/DSC02005.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ooANA1ikZhU/UpLffH7TmAI/AAAAAAAAEXk/ony0ZthRFIg/w1024-h768-no/DSC02006.JPG

[scottp55]

G., Crazy as a fox! In your brain's next upgrade get a sleep mode, and an IQ reducer with a sliding scale. Wonder if AGBells ideas all worked. This one only took him 11 years. Been there and seen it and was thunderstruck imagining it on Bras d'or Lake( my great gran was from up there and everybody knew about the "crazy" guy).http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD-4

[Burkhardt]

So, the dowel/tube made from barrel-glued staves did not work. Apparently, routing the undercut is quite violent and it ripped a few pieces from the plywood. Not to mention that I did not properly tighten the collet nut and the bit slowly made its way further and further down.

Instead I am going to prepare a new cylindrical 5" diameter dowel from stacked plywood disks. I hope that works....

To alleviate my frustration I tried a simple flat one-sided maze. Actually, this is the first one with the captive ball that I got to work properly. To make it a bit more challenging I stuffed two steels balls in: with a single ball is is a bit trivial.

Since I can produce them now in no time I guess I know what some friends are going to get for Christmas :)

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/AqKzDbQqY8klirbP1RbEDPiOaujQNB47Q5w9fAdaAGc=w1024-h541-no

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-l_aCq7VtwnE/UpfGQzdzBmI/AAAAAAAAEYc/Ra_C_uZ8xjQ/w1024-h768-no/DSC02023.JPG

[scottp55]

Nice, G., If you ever get the flat maze generator "Idjit" proof I'll save my pennies for it! scott

[Burkhardt]

Nice, G., If you ever get the flat maze generator "Idjit" proof I'll save my pennies for it! scott

May take me a while but I am planning to make it a little more usable.

In the meantime I got the cylindrical maze machined. It did work with the stacked plywood disks. Following an idea from Jack Jarvis, the entry and exit points connect to the hollow cavity inside the cylinder. However I must say it is more fun to play with the flat maze. The cylinder maze takes a bit of bodily contortion to move the balls around.

The only thing left to try with my software is a double sided flat maze.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-QaPLZv6sZ2U/UpptxTlMuNI/AAAAAAAAEYw/YeNWnYKmTD4/w556-h862-no/DSC02025.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-kA1XhqHyCDU/UpptyfVDgDI/AAAAAAAAEY4/2UCfwhaS9ZQ/w1024-h716-no/DSC02026.JPG

[scottp55]

Congrats G., Hollow space idea from Jack? Must have missed that. Do you mind me asking feeds and speeds on 1/2" bit, got a 3/8" coming this week for something totally differenthttp://www.carbideprocessors.com/router-bits/grooving-router-bits/ball-end-router-bits/ and don't want to mess up(only got 1). Does that mean you got some sleep?:)

[Burkhardt]

Congrats G., Hollow space idea from Jack? Must have missed that. Do you mind me asking feeds and speeds on 1/2" bit, got a 3/8" coming this week for something totally differenthttp://www.carbideprocessors.com/router-bits/grooving-router-bits/ball-end-router-bits/ and don't want to mess up(only got 1). Does that mean you got some sleep?:)

Yes, that was outside this forum; he sent me an email.

I used 80ipm (or 1.3 ips in Shopbot speak) for the ball end. Probably 12,000 to 15,000 rpm. But before I started, I cut a 3/8" wide slot to the middle of the ball channel with an end mill to remove most of the material. The problem with the ball end bit is that it has trouble to evacuate the chips and the more clearance and fewer material to cut on the first run the better. For the 1/2" balls I cut 4 paths with the ball end, with an offset of 20/1000 sideways and downward. That leaves a final channel of 0.52" diameter but still roughly circular cross-section. If yoy make it smaller, the wood fuzz will not allow the balls to roll freely.

Thanks for the link, that is another good source for the bits I did not know.

[scottp55]

Thanks G., Gives me a good starting point. Probably cutting mine in C-90 torrefied ash for cribbage peg storage and that stuff is so brittle there is NO fuzz. Will cut out as much waste as I can with my .18" slot. Hate to ask but what's next? I Imagine you are imploding 6" pipe? :)

[Burkhardt]

...... Hate to ask but what's next? I Imagine you are imploding 6" pipe? :)

Well, I got to fix that one.

Other projects in the pipeline:
- another wall cabinet for the bathroom
- mirror frame and smaller shelves for the same remodeling project
- user interface for the maze software
- fix the engine control unit of my Lotus Seven replica (my other hobby) so that I can drive it again.
- think about if I should keep working on the wave surface software
- I have a very cool dust separator and wanted to write a patent application for it sometimes
- make a few sample signs with Chinese writing for local sign companies, of course from my favorite material, sheet bamboo. Maybe I can find some business here. There is a very large Asian community here in SoCal but I never see carved signs, only the usual vinyl, acrylic and LED stuff.

I guess that will keep me busy for a while. Unless there is another new idea sneaking up the to-do list.

[scottp55]

G., Glad it's you. All I have to do today is put this into maple.

[Burkhardt]

I had posted this project on another forum and (while the software is not finished for distribution) offered to make a downloadable set of g-code files for a simple one-sided 8.5"x12" maze. Let me know if somebody is interested and I can post it here, too.

[scottp55]

G. , Interested, VERY.:)

[pappybaynes]

I'm interested as well. Thank you

[Burkhardt]

Here it is (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29562014/mazeposted120613.zip)

You will find three .tap gcode files in the zip:

mazegtopslot.tap - to be done with a 1/4" end mill. This cuts the start and end holes as well removes most material from the slots
mazegtopfinb.tap - to be done with a 1/2" ball end plunge router bit, will create the undercut for a 1/2" steel ball. You can do this file with a normal 1/2" ballnose as well but won't have an undercut that way.

mazegtopstap.tap - optional, to be done with a small (e.g. 1/16" or 1.6mm) drill bit. This will create two diagonally offset holes at entry and exit and you can glue a wire U-shape across to block the holes

The blank should be 12" (300mm) in x-direction and 8.5" (215mm) in y-direction or more, at least 5/8" (16mm) thick or better 3/4" (19mm).

Zero is in the center of the top surface for all 3 files. I did not let it go too fast. Do an air cut first to check how it works. I did not have a chance to cut these files myself, so no guarantee is given. In some previous experiments with the Shopbot control software I noticed it had trouble with the feed rate commands in g-code import. You may have to edit that.

It is a simple 10 x 14 cell one sided maze, nothing outrageous but might make a nice looking toy if cut from pretty hardwood. Plywood is not recommended, the ball end bit may rip the glue layers apart. I did not try MDF yet, it may or may not work. HDU might work, though.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-50uX9nXzCTU/UqIA1txMdtI/AAAAAAAAEZI/PjyfKbKkc5o/w814-h811-no/MazePosted120613.jpg

[scottp55]

Thank you G. Xmas is early.:)

[myxpykalix]

Scott,
The hollow center idea i talked to G about was a simple thought i had. We were discussing this re: the spiral maze idea. My thought was...what happens to the ball at the end of the maze...do you then have to go in reverse to get it back to the start, or does it have a exit hole?

So my thought was before you start to make your maze you have a square of wood. Cut it in half. Take a .5 ball nose bit and run a trough down the center of both halves.
Glue them together
you now have a hole in the center.
Turn you part round
then cut your maze pattern in it but at the end you drill a hole for the marble to fall into the center and you have a another hole next to your start point for it to come back to:eek:
This way the marble never has to leave the maze.

[scottp55]

Neat idea Jack. Arguing with my Desktop at the moment with a 3/8" ball end plunge(guess who's winning:) trying to convince it that it's a rabbit and it should come out of the same hole it went into. Thought I had it, but had to come back in and re-read Scott W's post closer. I skipped the part where snapped a second polyline back to the starting point of the first one. Oh well, back to the shop. Anyone- Haven't looked at G's gcode file yet- any tricks to it for the computer illiterate newbies?

[myxpykalix]

you can run that file just like running a sbp file. No need to convert or do anything, just call it up and run:D

[scottp55]

Thanks Jack, I had enough head scratching today. G. many thanks for the captive ball idea-it got me thinking.

[khalid]

Very nicely programmed. I love the people who write softwares.. they are genius:)

[scottp55]

Disappointed G., that you didn't make it a two sided maze from thicker stock so the ball fell through into the second side ad inifinitum, like yours/Jacks cylinder one.:)

[Burkhardt]

Disappointed G., that you didn't make it a two sided maze from thicker stock so the ball fell through into the second side ad inifinitum, like yours/Jacks cylinder one.:)

Well, I wanted to keep it simple for now. The double-sided maze is more complicated because of the flip-over. And, although fewer cells on one side, the maze is way more difficult to solve.

Files and instructions HERE (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29562014/maze2sideposted.zip)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29562014/MazePostDouble120913.jpg

[scottp55]

I was being facetious G. but thanks,wound up cutting nothing today but glad I waited. How did you know it was my birthday? Thanks. Will air cut to find out haw big a board, or is it the same?:)

[Burkhardt]

Happy Birthday!!

board is smaller and thicker: 7” wide, 9” long, thickness 1.25”

[scottp55]

Thanks G. Turning into a nice day, neighbors just dropped a 1/4 freezer load of Omaha aged steaks that their son duplicated the order on. 2 serendipitous things in one day!:)

[Burkhardt]

I am getting the hang of it....just need to find somebody who wants to buy it at the right price.

single side maze, 16" x 16" in Zebra Wood (stringy stuff that is):
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-RWwxph9VR8k/UvcSfzumq1I/AAAAAAAAEk8/COTaNRduKus/w1149-h862-no/DSC02217.JPG

double side "3d" maze (only one side shown) in Mahogany:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-XreZci2ngFE/UvcShla41uI/AAAAAAAAElE/ocOIQVw3bvU/w1598-h645-no/DSC02218.JPG

[myxpykalix]

When you get it in your head to do something, you don't stop till it's perfected.
Beautiful work!:eek:

[scottp55]

G. , I agree with Jack, looks like you have it down pat!(although for a second I thought "Why did G. stick a maraschino cherry in it? " on the second pic.:) Make sure you use good wood and make it so expensive you won't have to make hundreds of them(and if you do you won't mind):) Take one with you on your travels if you like to visit craft galleries like me. Or copyright and sell designs---I'd buy a design if I could see a pic of finished product like these two.
Persistent You Are.

[Burkhardt]

When you get it in your head to do something, you don't stop till it's perfected........

I guess I am at the end of that maze road and need some other project. Or maybe I just finish the user interface and start selling the software. I am just not sure how many people would want to machine mazes...

The software can now do custom shapes and keepout areas. The following is a double sided wavy maze based on the outline of the US state of a well known contributor of this forum :rolleyes:

That level of complexity with 2-side 3-d machined surfaces takes 2 hours and overall 10 bit changes with 5 different bits (1/2" ballnose, 1/4" endmill, 3/8" ball plunge, 90 degree v, 1/16" drill). In comparison, a flat one-sided maze of that size can be done in 15 minutes with 3 different bits.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-F7SWAj3P4Dk/UzOJNCEmCcI/AAAAAAAAEtY/4t94lZkqKgE/w1598-h733-no/DSC02323.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-HKnLLMfSldY/UzOJLQgPzkI/AAAAAAAAEtQ/02IpWe3S62w/w1598-h712-no/DSC02322.JPG

[myxpykalix]

The following is a double sided wavy maze based on the outline of the US state of a well known contributor of this forum

Well whoever he is, i'm sure he appreciates the "tip of the hat":D

When you say the software is done does that mean it's for sale? if so how much? Also my main interest in doing mazes would be to do round mazes on my indexer.
I can see how it would be easy to wrap the file (maybe?) but i'm a little confused about toolpaths since we initially talked about it.

Correct my assumptions here regarding toolpaths..
start with a 1/4 endmill carving the basic toolpath
followed by 3/8 ballplunge to create the "undercut" tunnel for the ball to roll in

Now because these programs optimize their cutting how do you keep the ballplunge from raising when at the end of a maze "deadend"?

What are the metal clips you have over your holes?
Do you have recommendations/sizes for bits/balls?
I'm interested and appreciate your persistence....good job!!:D

[scottp55]

Yeah G, Any idea how much? How difficult for"Programming Challenged" people like me? I've only managed lift out by retracing the lines on dead ends so I've always kept it simple or my head hurts:) I hate to ask "What's next?" :)

[myxpykalix]

I've only managed lift out by retracing the lines on dead ends so I've always kept it simple or my head hurts

I had a flash of brilliance (if i do say so myself...) when i read what scott wrote above, so let me run this by you....

Q) What is the one drawback to playing with a maze?
A) once you solve it once or twice you get bored with it...right?

So what do you do in order to solve that dilema?
You draw the maze in such a way that on some of these dead ends you have a plug that can be removed or,
turn a dowel that has a hole in the center that when turned allows the marble to pass thru creating a new intersecting pathway. By plugging certain pathways and intersecting others you create a whole new maze....:eek:

I'm an idea man...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U5UH1kQeUA

[Burkhardt]

....When you say the software is done does that mean it's for sale? if so how much?
Well, that is the thing I mentioned. It is done for my own purposes but it does not have a user interface. I have to hard code all settings in the source code and compile. Obviously that can not be sold. But I think I will invest another couple of days to get it user friendly. It should be easy enough to use with entry of the major machine parameters like bit diameters and feed rates. Then material dimensions, number of cells in x and y, ball diameter, wall thickness etc. and keep-out area file name. The output are toolpath files for:
- slotting the channels (1/4" end mill)
- carving the undercut (3/8, 1/2 or 5/8" ball plunge)
- perimeter cutout (optional, 1/4" end mill)
- perimeter chamfering (optional, 90 degree v-bit)
- hole drilling for the staples (optional, e.g. 1/16" drill or end mill))
For 2-sided mazes the same for the other side plus hole pocketing for flipover alignment dowels

The wave surface for the last example is not done with the maze software but by warping the output files with another program.


Also my main interest in doing mazes would be to do round mazes on my indexer.
No need to wrap the output. The software can directly generate toopaths for indexer. That was necessary to avoid a "seam" where the wrapped toolpath joins. My software makes it seamless. The maze channel can wrap several times around the cylinder.


Now because these programs optimize their cutting how do you keep the ballplunge from raising when at the end of a maze "deadend"?
The software generates first the maze pattern and then the tool path from scratch to follow the pattern. Since no other software like Vcarve etc. is involved I can fully control what the bit is doing.


What are the metal clips you have over your holes? I wrap some gold plated jewelry wire that I stole from my wife's beading drawer around a rectangular dowel and clip them to staples. Alternatively the program can create a shallow recess over the holes to glue in a small washer or plate.


Do you have recommendations/sizes for bits/balls?1/4" downcut for minimum tearout and Magnate ball end plunge bits with 1/4" shank for the undercut ball channel.

[Burkhardt]

Yeah G, Any idea how much? How difficult for"Programming Challenged" people like me? I've only managed lift out by retracing the lines on dead ends so I've always kept it simple or my head hurts:) I hate to ask "What's next?" :)

Not decided how much yet. Probably around 40 bucks.

Next I may restart my efforts to machine flat machined patterned finger/box joints without voids or dogbone fillets. For that I actually have the user interface already done but I gave up on the toolpath calculation last year. I think that will be a much more widely usable piece of software.

[Burkhardt]

I've only managed lift out by retracing the lines on dead ends so I've always kept it simple or my head hurts

I had a flash of brilliance (if i do say so myself...) when i read what scott wrote above, so let me run this by you....

Q) What is the one drawback to playing with a maze?
A) once you solve it once or twice you get bored with it...right?

So what do you do in order to solve that dilema?
You draw the maze in such a way that on some of these dead ends you have a plug that can be removed or,
turn a dowel that has a hole in the center that when turned allows the marble to pass thru creating a new intersecting pathway. By plugging certain pathways and intersecting others you create a whole new maze....:eek:

I'm an idea man...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U5UH1kQeUA

Yes, interesting idea! But I think I need to switch to something more useful than mazes now...

Actually, while single side mazes of a practical size are easy to memorize, the double sided mazes can be frustratingly hard to solve. The main challenge is anyway not so much detecting the proper path, but the dexterity to get the ball where you want it, even more 2 balls at the same time. Like any game, the novelty wears off soon and after that it just becomes a conversation piece or a decoration.

[scottp55]

Thanks G. , Please make it VERY friendly for people like me who think "code" comes on a ring in a Cracker Jacks box:)

[Red F]

In making the user friendly version, you may want to include a parameter for bit diameter where the ball meets the shank. I love your stuff by the way.

[Call-Tech]

I hope nobody minds me resurrecting this old thread, but I just had to jump in. This looked like lots of fun. I am just getting back into using my bot after several years of it mostly collecting dust or playing glorified panel saw. I'm making lots of mistakes (mostly wrong bits or speeds) and re-learning allot of things I had forgotten. Lots of Duh... moments. LOL
I have just been practicing on scraps getting back up to speed on both software and hardware. Its coming back slowly. Older I get, the longer it takes to hammer things home and try to remember things I once knew.

I had to try and make a couple of these. Certainly not as nice as many in this post but maybe a little more complicated to solve. Took a little bit of work to tool path, but first one would have turned out great if I had the right bits for the job. I cut one today but had lots of tear outs with the upcut bit I was using. I'll post real photos after new bits arrive. I decided it might be nice to V-Carve the solution for such a complicated maze on the back. 18" Diameter Maze.

Thank you to everyone who shares on this forum.

Fred
Call-Tech Services, Inc
Waterford, Mi
PRTAlpha48x96
3.5hp PC
4Zone Vacuum

http://www.csnd.com/Round_Puzzle_2_18_inch.jpg

http://www.csnd.com/Round_Puzzle_2_18_inch_back.jpg

[myxpykalix]

Fred,
I like your maze however it is not a good idea to carve the solution to the maze on the back.....visualize this....i'm halfway thru the maze and i'm stuck, so i turn it over to check my path......WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?:eek::D:mad:

maybe print it on a separate paper;)

[Call-Tech]

Jack,

I don't want to make it too easy for you! If you have to look at the back, You have to start over. *Laughs*

[scottp55]

Fred, Thanks for resurrecting this fine thread. STILL haven't carved ONE of the files G. was nice enough to give us:(
G. , Did you ever finish that program in all your SPARE time? :)
Jack, you ever make that round one? Pics please unless I missed them. Thanks all.

[Call-Tech]

Sorry about the poor photos... Just finished cutting my first Maze in 1/2" sintra and thought I would share.




http://www.csnd.com/20140919_190930.jpg


http://www.csnd.com/20140919_191004.jpg

[Burkhardt]

.....G. , Did you ever finish that program in all your SPARE time? :).....

First things first. I want to get this box joint software off my back.

Fred, this is a very nice maze! My software allows in principle for circular mazes but since these are basically just rectangular mazes wrapped around a center point, the result is not yet convincing. But this software is my next priority.

[scottp55]

NICE Fred!!:) What did you wind up using for a bit? How big was it? Thanks for posting it, maybe it'll make me cut one:)

[Call-Tech]

Thanks G., Scott i just used a 1/4" straight endmill for maze and 1/2 60 degree vbit for solution and name on back. The Maze is about 18 inches in diameter.

[scottp55]

Thanks Fred, Still wondering if someone has put a convex bottom on one so 2 or more people could play? Maybe 2 start points, or 1 person starting in the middle and one at the outer edge? Think I'd make it out of hardwood so it would survive being thrown across the room though:)

[Call-Tech]

Interesting idea. I have seen small kids mazes that have multiple balls in it that you have to get 2 to 4 balls into certain places in the maze. They will drive you crazy since getting one ball to certain location sends other balls to places you don't want them to be. But the thought of 2 people fighting each other to tip the maze to get their ball somewhere sounds like a war from the start. LOL

[scottp55]

Yep, Thought about making a rule "The first person to lift the maze off the table/floor loses!" But then a complete game would probably NEVER get finished:). Maybe a PTex stick (ski base repair candle) or other flexible handle so you could only apply a small force to it? Be a good game for Northeasters up here when you lose power for hours or days and the younger generation starts climbing the walls:)

[Call-Tech]

I was trying to figure out how to make the maze more complicated so it doesn't get boring after a few times of winning it. I could not seem to generate a maze with more that one solution. Then the idea struck me that maybe if I connect two or more mazes together, then the possible number of paths multiply and give lots of different possible entry points and exits and combination of both.

http://www.csnd.com/Multimaze.jpg


http://www.csnd.com/Multimaze2.jpg

[POPS 64]

a maze on different material . Jeff :D

[Burkhardt]

Looks great! Now you only need a tiny ball to roll around in the groove :rolleyes:

A full size side-lighted acrylic table plate with a maze would be interesting (if a bit expensive).